Jump to content
Troy

Official TLE Position on Trump Followers

Recommended Posts

Janet
5 hours ago, Troy said:

 

My theory is that the GOP senators are not about to visibly rock the boat over anything Trump wants until they get through their major items to-do list without attracting his notice. 

 

Trump is doing plenty to keep the attention on himself, while the GOP quietly goes along smashing down everything that impedes their own enrichment. Once that's done, they may decide to dump him in favor of Pence, who is likely more controllable from their point of view. 

 

 

 

  • LIKE/LOVE 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maxim

Not a big fan of long posts.  This one looks longer than it is.

 

On 2/6/2017 at 0:08 PM, Troy said:

@Maxim RE: no longer welcome here. 

I don't know where you go that, and it's wholly untrue, so you can put that to rest.

 

I didn't make it clear.  What I meant was it was important for me to speak my truth even if it should cause me to be unwelcome.  I did not mean I was unwelcome now.

 

However, shortly after the election there were a couple posts that made me feel very uncomfortable and I wondered how welcome I was.  What I am referring to is @Troy saying he de-friended someone on facebookfor telling him to get over it.  Plus the person was no longer allowed on TLE.  That seemed harsh and along with some comments about Trump supporters made me feel uneasy.  What would happen if I spouted a new age truism like what you resist persists.

 

Let me back up.  My history includes 27 years in scientology, a kind of nazi regime light.  No massive physical destruction--though some folks were physically abused--where expression is restricted in certain areas and you are not supposed to associate with anyone deemed to be an enemy all while proclaiming it is the only road to "total freedom".  No criticism of scientology was allowed.  They even had a policy called "Jokers and Degraders" which said that anyone making jokes about scientology, the founder, etc was in fact trying to degrade and so no joking was allowed... and there are plenty of things to joke about.  These policies have seriously broken up families to the point of some not speaking to parents, sons, daughters, brothers and sisters.   It took me a while to come out of my own cocoon, safely compartmentalized, allowing all the nonsense to be okay.

 

Now that I am outside that bubble I am sensitive to proscribed curbs on expression.    In my view we are adults here and it seems a bit over the top to have to have someone say what can and can't be said.  This site is about the Michael Teachings.  That's what draws and keeps people here.  And Michael tends to be instructive rather than restrictive.  There are at least three approaches to someone who obnoxiously posts things that are disruptive.   1) let them have their own discussion to keep the subject contained. 2) Ignore them.  If people don't get any response they have little reason to continue.  3) Honestly tell them how you feel appealing to their better nature.  If those don't work you can always remove them.

 

Add to that I have often had an issue of personal expression, that is not feeling I'd expressed my truths adequately in a sea of other ideas. 

 

On 2/6/2017 at 0:08 PM, Troy said:

RE: Trump vs Anti-Trump

None of us want to be in that polarity. For many of us, we grew up in a world that was polarized against us from birth. We didn't create that. It wan't because of our behaviors or beliefs or actions, but because of our mere existence. It is pounded into our soul every day that our very existence is wrong and that we must be controlled, rejected, or killed.

 

And yet we continue to love, to be trusting, inclusive, and brave. We gravitate toward teachings of kindness, love, and beauty like this one. Many of us extend our love so far that it includes all other species and the Earth as a whole.  

 

We've had a lot of practice in navigating a world of polarities we didn't create. We know how to create as much love and common ground as possible because we had to in order to survive. So please give us (me) some credit.

 

And when we have to set boundaries, regroup, heal, and call out our attackers, please hear this. It's not about you, and it's not about being petty or inconvenient. It's because we HAVE to. We know when it's time to step back and step away from dangerous people and those who support them and call out for solidarity and support.

 

If you are in a position where you don't have to do that, then that is awesome, but please don't presume everyone is treated like a straight white man. Please use your power to stand up for us from where you are and help our attackers change their perspectives and minds. Any "negative" reaction to my post isn't about what we/I should be doing here but is probably a part of you expecting yourself to do more from where you are.

 

Don't waste your time and energy telling someone like me that I should do more to love and accept, when that is the entire fuel for my existence in the face of being told I should never have existed in the first place. What I'm doing IS Love.

 

And I'd like to say that if someone slaps you in the face, it is NOT equally your own fault. Your job isn't to console the person who smacked you. That's a very unhealthy way of looking at things. We aren't forcing this polarity and we don't want it. We are just doing our best to respond to it. But we were slapped. HARD. And what did we do in response to being attacked? We came together in masses and are standing together to help stop anyone from being attacked again, and putting measures in place to protect us from further attack until we know our attackers have stopped attacking.

 

How is that not Loving?

 

I get you.  Love is a large context--it basically includes everything.  No escaping love and so many ways to express it consciously.

 

On 2/6/2017 at 0:08 PM, Troy said:

RE: Forgiveness

I agree with Michael that forgiveness is a shortcut that brings us a false peace of mind. Sure, it's helpful for creating a break from our pain, but it doesn't do anything to heal and integrate. I'd rather do the hard work of processing all of this than to cut it short by placating the situation.

 

But even if forgiveness were the choice, the assault should be over before we can get to a point of forgiveness. If a Molotov cocktail of hate is flying toward your face, you don't just smile and say I forgive you. You run! You get out of the way. You take care of yourself. We have the most powerful office in the world hurling social fire bomb after fire bomb at us and we are doing our best. We are doing incredibly well, if you ask me, and the practical measures of psychological and physical safety are just as important and loving as any spiritual efforts. We'll get to the potential for forgiveness after we find a way to stop people from getting hurt.

 

I am not familiar with what Michael said on forgiveness.  I consider it a welcome step over hardened heart and vindictiveness. 

 

 

On 2/6/2017 at 0:08 PM, Troy said:

RE: Trump isn't harmful and just can't see another way?

I say this with all due respect and affection, but it may be that you see Trump this way because you have the protected luxury of a straight white man's life and experience little to no effect from most social chaos in the world. Even now you remain untouched by the vast majority of teachings, religions, and politics that have bombarded the rest of us our entire lives to tell us we have no right to exist. Many of us have a very different perspective because we have had to deal with this all of our lives... and we know that people don't accidentally or innocently bumble into acts of hate, and they certainly don't accidentally become President and then gather a Cabinet of ghouls whose resumes were built by hurting people and then launch an attack on every group not white, male, straight, and Christian. They can see another way. The options are loud and clear. They CHOOSE and ACT willfully on hate. And the "Michael Students" and "channels" who hired this man knew what he stood for. They saw plenty of other ways and chose this one.

 

And I beg you not to suggest that there is no harm in what Trump is doing. If you feel no harm is being done, then we should really take time with you and go over the massive list of painful and devastating real world consequences of this madman and his followers.

 

I think what I said was that Trump and company didn't intentionally mean harm, they just were doing what they thought was best.  They actually do believe they have a better vision of how things should be.  I don't agree since it seems to be away from the mature soul values and more toward the young soul ways.  In life as we know it people regardless are going to feel harmed.  Shit happens.  The approach I favor is one in which the person harmed takes steps to move forward rather than fixating on the harm.  In the political context I realize the way is often to accentuate the harm to make a point.

 

@Troy  By the way this exchange is going I have a feeling that we may not reach that golden place of recognition and understanding.  So be it.  I'd rather give you a hug.

 

 

Here is something Shepard Hoodwin put out a few days ago.  He captured many of my thoughts and feelings well.

 

Key Insights for Spiritual Progressives

Sunday, Feb 5, 2017

 

From various channels and other wisdom teachers:

 

This chapter is temporary and likely to be short-lived.

The dark emotions now arising have been here all along. They are coming up to be seen clearly and healed.

We are in transition to a new age of higher awareness in which everyone wins. This is the last gasp of an age of selfishness and short-sightedness, not the beginning of one.

Negative things can be used for positive purposes. Trump may be “the wrong president at the right time,” catalyzing humanity to wake up.

This is spurring progressives and the press to develop more backbone and not weaken when attacked.

This is reducing apathy, promoting activism, and increasing consciousness.

The physical plane is, in part, a learning game. Seek to balance full engagement with clear observation, as if studying a chessboard and determining the best move.

This is a very interesting, growthful time to be alive.

This is an unprecedented opportunity to consciously observe and experience the results of fear-based versus love-based actions.

Focus on creating what you want rather than fighting what you don’t.

This is a marathon, not a sprint. Take care of yourself and your loved ones. Don’t burn out, get discouraged, give up, check out, or go to sleep. Keep doing the right thing and speaking up for what is right.

Unconditional love, including for Donald Trump, raises the vibration and power of activism. We can speak truth with love.

About a quarter of Trump supporters are open to reevaluating their positions when they see what results, and are open to the influence of unconditional love. Don’t worry about the rest.

We are lightworkers and teachers. The world needs us to shine light like never before.

In the long run, love always wins.

 

From George Lakoff (UC professor of linguistics and cognitive science):

 

Don’t use his name.

Focus on his policies, not his orangeness and mental state.

Don’t use helpless/hopeless talk.

Be careful not to spread fake news. Check it.

Keep your message positive; they want the country to be angry and fearful because this is the soil from which their darkest policies will grow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • LIKE/LOVE 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maxim

One thing that neither Shepard nor I mentioned: the importance of humor, satire and laughter.  I consider it mandatory.   They say some in the nazi concentration camps only stayed alive because they could still make jokes.

  • LIKE/LOVE 12
  • THANK YOU 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Evelin
5 hours ago, Maxim said:

One thing that neither Shepard nor I mentioned: the importance of humor, satire and laughter.  I consider it mandatory.   They say some in the nazi concentration camps only stayed alive because they could still make jokes.

 

That. And similarly, my grandpa told me when the Soviets arrested him prior to deporting, he kept singing in his cell. They told him not to. He kept singing, he sang every song he knew, and later said that had kept him sane in the complete uncertainty of the situation.

  • LIKE/LOVE 12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ckaricai
14 hours ago, Maxim said:

 

I think what I said was that Trump and company didn't intentionally mean harm, they just were doing what they thought was best.  They actually do believe they have a better vision of how things should be.  I don't agree since it seems to be away from the mature soul values and more toward the young soul ways.  In life as we know it people regardless are going to feel harmed.  Shit happens.  The approach I favor is one in which the person harmed takes steps to move forward rather than fixating on the harm.  In the political context I realize the way is often to accentuate the harm to make a point.

 

 

 

I agree with you that these people think they have a better vision of how things should be and that they do what they think is best. I don't agree that they don't intentionally mean harm. Of course they mean harm. From their point of view they feel it necessary to eradicate the elements of society they feel are subhuman. They know they are causing harm. They just don't care. To think otherwise is offensive to the people they are harming. It's also pretty offensive to tell people who are being harmed that they are fixated on that harm and that they should just move forward. Like, we're supposed to let people punch us in the face and say oh, don't mind me, you go on and do that while I read this book. You punch nicely, btw. Here, let me ice your hand, you poor thing. 

 

People having their rights actively being taken away and threatened with bodily harm is not just shit happening. You say you don't agree with what trump's admnistration is doing, but you also think we should just get over it, and move forward.  Really? Do you think it's okay for people who have been Disconnected to just accept it and move on? Ignoring the harm is the definition of complacency. We can't move forward towards a mature age if most people are asleep and complacent and tacitly approving harmful actions.

  • LIKE/LOVE 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sam K

I fail to see the point in chiding each other for our unique reactions to a set of circumstances that will naturally affect each of us differently.  I also fail to see the point in debating the exact motives and nature of those who are bringing about those circumstances, especially since there are quite a lot of them and their motivations probably aren't uniform.  We have enough on our plates without nurturing divides even amongst ourselves.  It only makes sense to me that we allow each other to respond to what's happening in our world as we each feel is necessary.  "You do it your way, I'll do it mine."
 

  • LIKE/LOVE 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AnnaD

In response and in addition to what Ckaricai has said, when Jesus said "Slap the other cheek too, go your hardest", was the worst thing he could have said. Why ENABLE an abuser to abuse you by offering them your other cheek, when they will slap harder, more, choose overkill?

This is the most stupid proverb Jesus could have said. My parents used to trot out this saying as their shoddy way of teaching me um I don't know, peaceful protest I guess, and my natural instinct would be to get out of harms way. Novel instinct, I guess. 

 

From this "Offer the abuser the other cheek to slap, shred, pulverise" philosophy is the whole, "be peaceful and passive in the face of harm" strategy, which is the most stupid and non practical advice to offer to any vulnerable group. 

 

To the woman in an abusive relationship who is being assaulted: offer them the other cheek, don't run away, take it.

To the African American person who is being circled slowly by a group of Black hating Rednecks: offer them the other cheek, don't fight back, don't defend yourself, take it, because the Black haters will see the error of their ways, break down in shame, and ask for forgiveness. This happens. 

 

To the Muslim woman on the bus who is being harassed by fellow white facist passengers who pull of her headveil, don't fight back, don't protest, that'll only make them hurt you more. Turn the other cheek, and they will leave you alone, and not follow you home, torch your house, leave racist graffiti at your Mosque. 

 

To the queer couple who are walking at night home who are being followed by a group of thugs, don't run, that shows you are afraid, don't turn around to offer a peaceful discussion, that won't work, just stand there, like a statue, and absorb their punches, their headlocks, their kicks, their spit. Don't fight back. Don't intervene when they begin kicking your partner in the head til they lose consciousness and start bleeding out of their nose and ears, they'll be ok after a good sleep. Don't make them mad. Forgive them, they know not what they do. 

 

Rinse and repeat. Read Ckaricai's post properly. Privelege exists in this world when you are straight, white, male and conservative. If you are not ticking those boxes privelege doesn't exist. Don't tell me to be passive in the situation of abuse. I will fight back or I will run. 

  • LIKE/LOVE 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
estoy

@AnnaD regards this Jesus quote; according to Seth (I guess I read it there) it is a misunderstanding, he only meant don't answer violence with violence, he never meant "let them beat you" fight back peacefully or secure yourself

  • LIKE/LOVE 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stickyflames

for myself in these times, i notice when I get too caught up in how evil everyone is. I notice how miserable this makes me, how hopeless this makes me, how overwhelming It feels.  It is important, for our health, to relate to these trump supporters in some way. It is important. There is no beneficial inclusive reason not to other than venting and screaming on occasion ( which has its benefits!). It is important to lesson the charge SOME WAY. Even if just for our own health. That being said, it is not that creative to just embrace it all in some boundary free fashion. This time requires bountiful boundaries, bountiful loud voices. I see the call from Maxim to minimize the charge, the divisiveness. I could not agree more, if that provides more energy towards the deliciousness of standing for your own values loudly. I could not disagree more if that means just simply allowing the world to fall into place. Our creativity is being called upon here in ways many of us have never experienced in our life times. That means participating in ways that is uncomfortable for ourselves. That means caring for ourself when we hate too much. Laughing more, making some effort to see others as people. That means relating to the ugly. That means speaking up for more than the ugly. That means living as an example of more. That means boundaries, lots of boundaries. Lots and lots of boundaries. Both viewpoints are speaking for love here. Both are needed for any sane action going forward. I lean towards Troy simply because I am biased towards the creative path. I also know it does not exclude the path of embrace, it just includes boundaries and creativity. How historical!

  • LIKE/LOVE 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maxim

@ckaricai@AnnaD From your responses it sounds like I said or implied something that I didn't think I did.  The answer isn't to do nothing if you are being harmed.  Speak up and act... whether white male hetero or black transgender and loving it.  Love excludes nothing.  

@Sam K  Good point.  We all process a bit different.  A big piece missing from this conversation is our physical presence and warmth.

@estoy Abso-fucking-lutely!

@Stickyflames yes my Canadian cuz.

@Evelin Great story. 

 

  • LIKE/LOVE 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maureen
5 hours ago, estoy said:

@AnnaD regards this Jesus quote; according to Seth (I guess I read it there) it is a misunderstanding, he only meant don't answer violence with violence, he never meant "let them beat you" fight back peacefully or secure yourself

 

Thanks @estoy, I was searching my brain trying to remember what Seth said about that quote. I remembered the same thing. It was something like "turn the other cheek" has come to mean something different than what was originally intended. It originally meant to literally "turn away from the aggressor" and in so doing the aggressor would be left with their own wounding, their own anger, their own whatever, to work out on their own. By not engaging, the other person no longer has you in their sights to project their own shit onto and they are left to deal with whatever it is within themselves that needs healing. It's also the classic Karpman Triangle with Persecutor, Victim and Rescuer as the prime roles. When you take yourself out of the equation of any of the roles, by making a conscious choice to do so, you move to a neutral, non-attached position. The other person is left hanging and has to deal with it on their own.

 

  • LIKE/LOVE 11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AnnaD
9 minutes ago, Maureen said:

It originally meant to literally "turn away from the aggressor" and in so doing the aggressor would be left with their own wounding, their own anger, their own whatever, to work out on their own. By not engaging, the other person no longer has you in their sights to project their own shit onto and they are left to deal with whatever it is within themselves that needs healing.

 

That makes sense. Thanks Maureen and Estoy. Escape is still the best option.

  • LIKE/LOVE 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cari
On 2/3/2017 at 0:12 AM, Troy said:

the official TLE position is that no one in this community will be expected to humor anyone who passively or actively voted for, or directly or indirectly supports the hateful ideology of this madman.

I made a terrible mistake. I didn't vote. When Bernie Sanders dropped out of the race I lost interest. I bought into the delusion that it was not even possible that Trump could win the election, even after he hijacked the nomination. I am so angry right now - at myself and a lot of other people who failed to vote due to alienation, jaded apoliticism, etc. We helped him get in. It was the last thing I wanted to do, but somehow it happened. So there's that. As I watch the daily horrors roll out on CNN I cannot help but feel perhaps the way millions of "Establishment" Americans felt in the 1960s & 70s - whether they actively joined the "Opposition" or not: a pervasive and persistent urging to dig deeper within themselves to see how truly "American" they were, and struggle to re-define what that means. I am struck by my feelings of - yes - hatred toward the New Establishment Trumpsters. They are the same feelings I had 40 years ago toward the Johnson/Nixon/et al bunch of evil idiots. History does repeat itself. It is repeating now. But I am heartened by the Indivisibles and their activity at the Town Halls, on social media, and in the streets. I'm so sorry for what I failed to do in November. By not choosing, I made a choice. Now I am committed to doing everything in my power to contribute to the rectification of that choice. For the first time in my life I realize fully the harm I have indirectly caused to myself, and to people I don't even know. And I will have to deal with that. And I will. Schmesident Prump IS a madman. He is a full-blown Narcissist. It remains to be seen whether or not he is of the Malignant strain. But I'm in the fight for the long haul now. 

  • LIKE/LOVE 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cari
On 2/10/2017 at 5:22 PM, Stickyflames said:

That means caring for ourself when we hate too much. Laughing more, making some effort to see others as people. That means relating to the ugly. That means speaking up for more than the ugly.

Wonderful post...Funny...the last couple of weeks I have been trying very hard to be better to myself. Eating better, getting sleep AND rest...and finding humor (occasionally) in the chaos. While I don't find what he (Trump) is perpetrating to be funny, I can laugh at HIM sometimes. He is so easy to make fun of. And I'm beginning to feel some real sympathy for Sean Spicer. That poor man is in the butt, and it's a big butt, and there's just too much sh*t coming out of it...he's not up for this, and he's not very good at it either. Poor guy - soon we'll notice a facial tic in a press conference...I don't think he'll make it four years. As we used to say, "Power to the People."

  • LIKE/LOVE 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cari
On 2/7/2017 at 6:52 PM, Janet said:

I think I might subscribe to The Washington Post solely because of this article:

OMG. Just read this. I'll be forwarding this all over my world. I would add that now, in their universe, thousands of communist terrorist undocumented  Massachussins...Masssachusettsians....people from THEIR state of Massachusetts were covertly bussed into THEIR state of New Hampshire for the expressed purpose of voting illegally. For Hillary, no doubt. Thanks Janet - I will now be reading the Washington Post every day.

 

  • LIKE/LOVE 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Troy
On 2/9/2017 at 10:49 PM, Maxim said:

However, shortly after the election there were a couple posts that made me feel very uncomfortable and I wondered how welcome I was.  What I am referring to is @Troy saying he de-friended someone on facebookfor telling him to get over it.  Plus the person was no longer allowed on TLE.  That seemed harsh and along with some comments about Trump supporters made me feel uneasy.  What would happen if I spouted a new age truism like what you resist persists.

 

No one got banned over Trump. The person you are talking about had crossed several lines by the time the Trump hostility came around. Even if it were only the Trump hostility, it would have been reason enough, in my opinion. You don't shout at people to "get over it" when their lives are being threatened and destroyed. If you ever see someone banned from TLE, it had to be pretty bad. Since 2007 I have banned 5 or fewer people and they had to really push to get to that point. So please don't equate your saying something constructive and personal with someone who lashed out in hostility while mocking people who are suffering.

 

On 2/9/2017 at 10:49 PM, Maxim said:

I think what I said was that Trump and company didn't intentionally mean harm, they just were doing what they thought was best.  They actually do believe they have a better vision of how things should be.  I don't agree since it seems to be away from the mature soul values and more toward the young soul ways.  In life as we know it people regardless are going to feel harmed.  Shit happens.  The approach I favor is one in which the person harmed takes steps to move forward rather than fixating on the harm.  In the political context I realize the way is often to accentuate the harm to make a point.

 

Trump and his cabinet prioritize the harming of others over all other policies. If you don't know this, you just aren't aware of the history and policies these people are notorious for supporting and pushing and they directly harm specific groups of people. They are White Supremacists. It's not an exaggeration. To ignore this or to excuse it or to give the benefit of the doubt is just plain dangerous. So please don't diminish the reality of constant assault so many of us are enduring both in practical and immediate ways and in legal and long-term ways.

 

Maybe instead of trying to convince people to accept and behave as if they are where you are in this, maybe try to understand that if a person is not White, Male, and Straight, they can be nowhere near where you are in this. Maybe try to listen and understand that we are forced to use more forceful and passionate strategies because we don't have the luxury of floating untouched above the consequences of this election.  It's just an idea.

  • LIKE/LOVE 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maxim

@Troy  There are plenty of things to be angry and outraged about.  Besides anger and outrage it is also imperative that we tune into our calm center... the thing Michael taught us when we had our first encounters.  That way we can harness that outrage in constructive ways with the unattached approach.  The women's march comes to mind as an example but there are so many more things are happening as we speak such as the day without immigrants.  Comparing the numbers in the women's march which went around the world to those who are wanting a trumpocracy tells me there is more of us then them.

 

The love and compassion approach  can be adopted by those in the cross hairs of white nationalist hate as well those who aren't... see the Rolling Stone article, Van Jones: Only a 'Love Army' Will Conquer Trump.  Maybe you don't agree.  The important thing to me is we connect with one another rather than be fractured and fragmented.  We may have a little different perspective but I would say we are 99% in accord.

 

It is also the little acts of kindness that make a difference.  Just today my sister spent the morning reading stories and singing to a class of young students.  I'd bet there were some children of undocumented immigrants in that class.

 

Someone, actually an old soul who comes to the farm to do art, sent me his poem today.  I hadn't heard it before since I am not much of a poetry buff.  It could be a romantic poem but it also speaks to how close we all are to one another consciously or unconsciously.  It is by ee cummings.

 

i carry your heart with me

i carry your heart with me (i carry it in
my heart) i am never without it (anywhere
i go you go, my dear; and whatever is done
by only me is your doing, my darling)

i fear
no fate (for you are my fate, my sweet) i want
no world (for beautiful you are my world, my true)
and it's you are whatever a moon has always meant
and whatever a sun will always sing is you

here is the deepest secret nobody knows
(here is the root of the root and the bud of the bud
and the sky of the sky of a tree called life; which grows
higher than soul can hope or mind can hide)
and this is the wonder that's keeping the stars apart

i carry your heart (i carry it in my heart)

 

Edited by Maxim
  • LIKE/LOVE 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Troy

 

11 hours ago, Maxim said:

The love and compassion approach  can be adopted by those in the cross hairs of white nationalist hate as well those who aren't... see the Rolling Stone article, Van Jones: Only a 'Love Army' Will Conquer Trump.  Maybe you don't agree.  The important thing to me is we connect with one another rather than be fractured and fragmented.  We may have a little different perspective but I would say we are 99% in accord.

2

 

First of all, thank you for having this conversation and I agree that we are in 99% accord, especially in intent and wish for peace. Thank you for continuing to listen because as an ally, it really matters that you understand that we are coming from different places to get to the same place.

 

I think where you are on a different page from those of us in the crosshairs is that you may not have suffered the persistent and pervasive hate and violence against you that we do on a scale that is nearly planetary in its force against us from birth. When you have no reference point for that, you develop a romanticized idea of what it means to be loving and compassionate to those who actively or passively seek to harm you or eradicate you. In your eyes, based on your experience, your reference may be mostly about inconveniences that you can just adjust around and work with in creative ways and that's wonderful. I'm not using the word "inconveniences" to minimize your own struggles, but I can't think of a better word that captures the difference between our personal struggles because of choices we made or because of who we know, versus being born into a world of hostility that has been an assault on every fiber of your being from birth and is a threat to your very life. Every day. Every single day. All day. With no moment where you are free to ignore it. We are talking about a violent and pervasive assault against us on ALL levels, every day, for every moment of our lives. Comparatively, everything else is an inconvenience.

 

There is a way for you to get to a place to understand this, but you have to keep listening and learning, and be willing to accept that telling us how we should be or what we should do is not as helpful as you would like it to be. We already know what to do and how to do it because we live it. Every day. The tactics you are thinking of do work and work very well in many situations, but we are talking about a very different set of tactics required when being forced into wars against our very existence.

 

We can't just love that away. We have to DO something. 

 

Maybe this will help:

The tactic of Love you suggest are the tactics someone might use when working with an angry teenager.

The tactics of Love you see us using are those you have to use when that angry teenager has a gun to your head and a knife to your throat after he has broken into your home and stabbed and beaten you and your family while you slept and held you hostage for a week.

 

So, yeah, acts of Love can look very different in different scenarios.

 

You think we disagree or that we are coming from places of only anger and outrage, because our position is so just so completely unfamiliar to you. But we aren't coming from only anger and outrage. Anger and outrage are cries for help and a call for solidarity, not a tantrum or rally for hate. Do you think you could use the same tactics of "Love" in both scenarios with the teenager? If I cry for help and fight the teenager to save my life and my family, that's Love working around and through enormous life-threatening obstacles.

 

All cries of outrage and anger from the oppressed are Love. There is no other way to hear it. If you have never had to implement Love in this particular way, it may be unfamiliar and messy to you, but it's Love.

 

Making a proclamation that TLE is a safe place that will not honor any passive or active positions of bigotry, hate, and division is Love.

  • LIKE/LOVE 11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ckaricai
36 minutes ago, Troy said:

 

I think where you are on a different page from those of us in the crosshairs is that you may not have suffered the persistent and pervasive hate and violence against you that we do on a scale that is nearly planetary in its force against us from birth. When you have no reference point for that, you develop a romanticized idea of what it means to be loving and compassionate to those who actively or passively seek to harm you or eradicate you. In your eyes, based on your experience, your reference may be mostly about inconveniences that you can just adjust around and work with in creative ways and that's wonderful. I'm not using the word "inconveniences" to minimize your own struggles, but I can't think of a better word that captures the difference between our personal struggles because of choices we made or because of who we know, versus being born into a world of hostility that has been an assault on every fiber of your being from birth and is a threat to your very life. Every day. Every single day. All day. With no moment where you are free to ignore it. We are talking about a violent and pervasive assault against us on ALL levels, every day, for every moment of our lives. Comparatively, everything else is an inconvenience.

 

There is a way for you to get to a place to understand this, but you have to keep listening and learning, and be willing to accept that telling us how we should be or what we should do is not as helpful as you would like it to be. We already know what to do and how to do it because we live it. Every day.

 

@Troy thank you for stating this so eloquently. It's occurred to me that I'm so used to people being willfully ignorant that my frustration takes over and I give up on the conversation and get burned out from all the trying to explain. Next time I find myself in this conversation I will try to explain my point of view this way. Tho half the communication has to come from the other person being willing to actually believe my point of view and not dismiss it because it doesn't makes sense to them. 

  • LIKE/LOVE 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Troy

This is what I wish for all Michael Communities and Michael Students - and all people - to understand: 

 

IMG_0225.PNG

  • LIKE/LOVE 13

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maxim

Thanks @Troy.  It has been good for me too. I can see we have been coming from different places.  I do not wish to preach to you.  For sure I sometimes can get into my own bubble of beliefs imagining that they are best thing for everyone.  At the same time the act of expression to the degree I don't have to defend myself has been a process of finding new truths.

 

I am grateful for treasures like Oprah and John Waters who have influenced how we see the world even if we have never seen their work.  In my mind they speak not for blacks, women or gays but for all people.  I do not believe there is any one way to be active or 'political'.  In my years of being homeless (sleeping in a van) I was blown away by the small acts of kindness that make the world as decent as it is... even if there is much more to do.

 

Love is doing what you need to do to feel safe.  I support you  in doing that.

 

  • LIKE/LOVE 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lad the Hun

He drew a circle that shut me out —
Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout.
But Love and I had the wit to win:
We drew a circle that took him in.

  • LIKE/LOVE 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×