50 posts in this topic

Ask Michael - March 5, 2017

 

Hello to each of you. We are here, now. We can begin. ***QUEUE IS NOW OPEN***

 

Yes, Brian.

 

BrianW: Hi Michel! Could you please provide additional information on the primary shame for the Jovial body type and provide suggestions on how one might overcome the shame of "giving into the pleasures of life and the body"?

 

Pleasure is one of what we refer to as a Natural Right inherent in existence. Pleasure is one of the primary motivations for incarnation and for progress through the high planes. The Jupiter Body Type is designed in a way that gravitates toward pleasure. It knows and trust pleasure, so much so that it recognizes this as a necessity, not a luxury.

 

Pleasure is subjective and can range from the more blissfully complex of sexual pleasures and intimacy to the simplicities of a good nap and good meal.

 

Pleasure is tied to the Moving/Higher Moving Centers and Humans have created a hierarchy of Centers that places Intellect at the top and Emotion below this, with the Moving Centers at the bottom.

 

Class systems are built from this model of heirarchy.

 

This spills into race and economic prejudices and even into slavery where the Moving Center is promoted as only useful if it is productive or reproductive.

 

Religions began to tie the Moving Center to shame because the person who is being exploited should only show productivity, not pleasure.

 

And so "everything" pleasurable was tied to sin, to being wrong, to being dangerous, and everything productive and reproductive were tied to praise, righteousness, and worth because this served oppression, not the soul.

 

The Jovial Body knows this is a lie and that pleasure is a right, but because this body type is so quickly and easily receptive to pleasures, this Body Type can tend to respond by indulging in pleasure as an escape, or indulge in pleasures as a deep, dark and hidden secret facet.

 

The Jovial Body Type can sometimes reject pleasure altogether, or indulge to a point of losing the point of the pleasure, but there comes a moment when this Body Type realizes that pleasure is one's personal right, not something that is up for discussion or debate.

 

The way that this Body Type can help itself to overcome any shame is to realize and own that if one's personal pleasure is not harming the self or another, then it is yours to do with as you please.

 

It is simply no other individual's or group's business.

 

Embrace the joy of the pleasure and share in that joy. When it is criticized or shamed, recognize the absurdity and let that be the "problem" of the critical or shaming.

 

We iterate: if the pleasure harms no one, it is yours. If there is harm involved, then it is not pleasure, no matter how good it feels.

 

When we say "harm" we mean harm. To simply offend another is not harm.

 

So your greatest tools for releasing yourself from the shame of pleasure is to recognize its validity and necessity, and then to own it and share the benefits of this pleasure freely, if you choose. When you are happy, you are a more loving presence in the world. It is harmful to reject pleasure.

 

NEXT

 

Kurtis: Hi Michael. I'd like to ask about elaboration on the King Casting in the same vein I've asked for the other castings before. In the same format as this on Server Casting, of course: "Server Casting might show up as a default, keen awareness of the needs, feelings, and behavior of those around you, sometimes to the extent of distraction. It might show up as a sensitivity and kindness that wishes only the best for others, while being rather frustrated, or even infuriated, with those who are inconsiderate and disrespectful of boundaries. It might show up as being in a position among friends and family that is more often than not turned to for insight, help, nurturing, availability, and understanding."

 

King Casting might show up in its default form as a kind of quiet power, quiet confidence that is drawn upon as necessary, much like being "under cover" as an observer and then revealing surprising authority and leadership "out of nowhere." King Casting trusts in and respects the inner authority of those around him or her, but will happily help make up for any lack of this on a regular basis.

 

NEXT

 

TyroneT: I'd like to join with Kurtis in asking about castings: Can I get a description of Priest casting in the same format as you've given so far for Server, Artisan, Warrior and King?

 

Priest Casting might show up in its default form as a kind of eagerness, willingness, and interest in the bettering of a person or situation. This Casting tends to find a way to be "in the middle" of people and events, drawn to "drama," to the point of being accused of "meddling." This Casting presumes that others naturally wish to evolve, to be better, and they are willing to help. This can get messy and is quite tricky. Because of this, Priest Casting can sometimes learn a kind of emotional sleight of hand and this can either give the reputation of being healers and helpers, or a manipulative nuisance.

 

NEXT

 

Nan: Yes, hello, Michael. Last month you gave some comments on the effect of different Body Types on such inner work as meditation and dream study – and further commented that Centering would also be of effect. Can you discuss the effect of good or poor access to the Intellectual, Emotional, or Moving Center (or other Centers?) in the practices of meditation and dream study?

 

No Center can be shut down and each will find a way to be included. One cannot function without all three lower Centers functioning in some capacity. When a Center is "blocked," this tends to mean it is finding a less-useful, more distracting means for its participation in the balance.

 

For example, those with "no" Moving Center tend to fidget, wiggle, and find reasons to move anyway. Because the Moving Center must move. Many think that a fidgety, restless, and antsy individual is Moving Centered, but this is a person who ignores the Moving Center.

 

Another example might be when there is "no" use of the Emotional Center, but it finds a way to come out in outbursts, breakdowns, tantrums, etc.

 

When one employs Meditation and Dream Study, one can often discover the best path to be relative to that Center most neglected.

 

For example, those who have a hard time sitting still for a meditation in stillness can MOVE. Use dance, use exercise, use exploration, use walking, use the rhythm of music, etc.

 

What you are doing is harnessing that which has come to be a kind of liability in its effort to bring balance, and instead begin to give it the nurturing and platform it requires.

 

Nan: If Emotional Center is least accessible?

 

Music is key to the lack of Emotional Center nurturing.

 

Music, Listening, and Hugging.

 

You need not move unless you feel inspired to move. You need not speak unless you feel inspired to speak.

 

And the hugging helps the body to become familiar with the reality of the heart chakra by, literally, closing the gap between your own and others'.

 

We know we can elaborate upon all of these subjects in more dedicated discussions, but this is our quick response.

 

NEXT

 

Janet: I shake my head in amazement multiple times a week as the so-called ‘leader’ of our country issues another tweet containing distorted and often simply unbelievable statements. Is the man the gullible sort who simply believes whatever he sees on tv or hears from his advisors that appeals to him?

 

Janet: Or does he possess craftiness and cunning that allow him to understand that by issuing regular ‘stream of consciousness’ statements he can cause reactions that direct attention toward or away from whatever he wants to present or hide? I think knowing this information about him can help the rest of us resist his undesirable plans more effectively.

 

It is not cunning. It is pathological.

 

It is not gullibility. It is a failed 2nd Internal Monad and an incomplete 3rd Internal Monad. We see many refer to this individual as behaving like a child, and this is not inaccurate to where his world view is in terms of actions and consequences, entitlement and demand, and reactionary defenses and deflections.

 

However, it works as both an expression of this pathology, and as a manipulative tactic and distraction as a path of Tyranny.

 

It is not something that cannot be easily understood, if at all, but is imposed as a context for Tyranny. It is a tactic that is much like a toddler throwing a tantrum wherein your responses are a forced response no matter what you choose to do because you are forced to respond. One slowly grows accustomed and simply responds. This is powerful Tyranny as the force is developed from within the oppressed and begins to feel necessary and "normal," relieving the oppressor of the pressure to sustain force.

 

It is Good Work to help one another to sustain your capacity for choice as this is not a toddler, even if the tactics are that of a toddler.

 

NEXT

 

Cong: Michael, can you comment on how to handle situations where we seem to be pressured to make a more “morally correct” choice? An example can be, I don’t typically want to give out money to someone who just walk up to me and ask for it - a lot of times, I feel that they took this for granted. However, sometimes, I wonder if I am not being compassionate enough. Another example can be, I might decline a date invite from someone not from my culture and race - which is a completely valid choice, but from time to time, I wonder if I make this kind of decision based on biased views. In these cases, it is not always clear to me where the line is that separates a choice based on fear and ignorance and a choice based on love and respect.

 

Morality is so subjective and flexible that it makes for a useless system for determining one's choice and actions. We prefer to use the term ethical when determining what is "right and wrong" as ethical is a more objective calculation of consequences with real harm.

 

However, you are not speaking about ethics or morals here.

 

You are simply speaking of personal comfort and growth.

 

None of what you describe makes you wrong, and other choices are not better.

 

However, you do know that you are limiting your growth. You feel this. You know this. You know that your comfort zones are valuable, but you also know when they are not.

 

Using the examples above:

 

If you are speaking of those who may come up to you in public and ask you for money, you can either give or you do not. It is not complicated. You cannot truly give if you are only concerned with recognition, gratitude, or with how the giving is used. For many who have had to learn to "walk up and ask for money," the emotional center grows closed, quieted, and protected to help deal with the constant refusals and rejections and they are focused on survival. The time for gratitude often comes privately once the person is safe, fed, and has a moment to reflect.

 

You may or may not be able to or even want to give money to everyone who asks, so a solution can come in two ways: find a way to give in more formal ways that you know will help specific communities, and/or simply give when you can or when you want, and do not give when you cannot or choose not.

 

Turn these moments into invitations, rather than violations. Confidently and kindly say no, or confidently and kindly say yes.

 

As for the cultural differences, let this be fun. Let this be experimental and informative, rather than threatening or inconvenient. If you feel you would be dealing with an insulting environment, then you can either be prepared to be patient and educate, or you can say no. It is always your responsibility to grow, but it is never your responsibility to accommodate the lack of growth in someone else. It is your choice for if and when to educate.

 

So remove the concept of morality, and as long as your choice harms none, it is merely a preference. If you feel it is limiting you, then you are probably correct.

 

NEXT, final question

 

Ingun: Hello Michael, is there a term or designation or common name in your teaching or elsewhere when the Triad of Imagination, Intuition and Creativity is working together or used together?

 

SENTIENCE

 

We will conclude here for today. Good day to each of you. Goodbye, for now.

 

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In regards to Trump having failed his 2nd Internal Monad, this is all I could find for now. I know Geraldine did a whole session on it so I'll keep looking and add it in here when I find it.

 

MEntity:  The 2nd Rite of Passage, which is Autonomy and is initiated by the capacity to walk on one's own, is often tied to one's sense of Confidence. To the degree that one is Confident is the degree to which this Internal Monad was completed.

 

MEntity:  When we speak of "confidence" here, we are not speaking in terms of your being able to speak well in front of a crowd, but in terms how willing one is in trying anything at all that is unfamiliar.

 

MEntity:  This is not a matter of trying what one has no interest in trying, but in anything unfamiliar to you that you may have even the slightest interest in trying. This would extend into even those areas one must do for oneself because it is known that it is Good Work, even when one does not want to do them.

 

MEntity:  For instance, going to an interview for a job that is important to you, even as you hate the interview process. A successful 2nd Internal Monad would mean that you do it anyway, even as you acknowledge the discomfort.

 

MEntity:  That is Confidence in this context.

 

MEntity:  An unsuccessful completion of a 2nd Internal Monad is often marked by classic Co-dependence, the inability to do much of anything without a reference to someone else. It is the inability to walk on one's own.

 

MEntity:  We do not refer to those who have physical disabilities, but anyone, regardless of mobility.

 

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Michael Said:

Humans have created a hierarchy of Centers that places Intellect at the top and Emotion below this, with the Moving Centers at the bottom.

 

Class systems are built from this model of hierarchy.

 

This spills into race and economic prejudices and even into slavery where the Moving Center is promoted as only useful if it is productive or reproductive.

 

This looks like a primary insight into the source of some of our current problems. It apparently goes back a looooong way.

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To offer an alternate light on this quote:

1 hour ago, Bobby said:

We see many refer to this individual as behaving like a child, and this is not inaccurate to where his world view is in terms of actions and consequences, entitlement and demand, and reactionary defenses and deflections.

 

However, it works as both an expression of this pathology, and as a manipulative tactic and distraction as a path of Tyranny.

I believe there is an important distinction between someone who behaves in a childish manner and someone who is childlike, which deserves attention. It could be that this fragment is stuck in his progress and speaking from a childish perspective. However, I think there is really something to be said of understanding the truth of a childlike person. I don't think it is "wrong" to be childlike. Actually I believe some of the most advanced spiritual beings on Earth have been very childlike people. As I understand it, the higher spiritual truths tend to move away from ever-growing complexity and details and turn to accentuate simple childlike innocence. 

 

To take a modern example of this, take a look at the recent happenings in the show Dragon Ball Super, where the number one being, having the highest spiritual power and authority in all of the 12 universes is in fact an extremely childlike being. Zeno-Sama:

hqdefault.jpg

 

There are many examples of this where the highest power is not necessarily the most developed, mature, or seemingly competent but just the reverse, like a child. 

 

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37 minutes ago, NicholasV said:

To offer an alternate light on this quote:

I believe there is an important distinction between someone who behaves in a childish manner and someone who is childlike, which deserves attention. 

 

 

 

Nicholas, Michael is not speaking of childlike innocence here.  They are speaking of a psychological immaturity.  This is not a healthy thing for an individual, let alone for an individual running a country.  Follow the progression through life of any incomplete monad and in his case, an incomplete 2nd, 3rd, 4th and probably 5th IM.  Because they will all be finished in the negative poles until the earliest is finished in the positive pole, the personality keeps getting more and more distanced from his own Essence.  It's not pretty and it's not pleasant to even be around someone like this.  His tantrums are plenty enough evidence of this.  He won't hold himself accountable for his own actions.  He has difficulty dealing with reality.  While it's true that we each have lifetimes within a soul age level that we do not complete all of the IMs or even an earlier IM, that still doesn't make it ok that it's enough that he's a danger to himself and his own family not to mention about 300,000,000 other people just in this country.

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I'm glad you pointed this out, @NicholasV.

 

I'm childlike. Very childlike. It's irritating and troublesome, really irritating and troublesome, but innocent and wrought with unexpected wisdom. 

 

Trump is childish. A willfully broken and dangerous man ruled by reckless and harmful childishness.

 

I'm glad you brought up this differentiation, though I don't think Michael referred to either of the terms. 

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Posted (edited)

I found it!! I emboldened what pertains to a failed 2nd Internal Monad. It's shocking how well it describes Trump. 

 

The 7 Stages of the 2nd Internal Monad

 

GeraldineB:  Similar to past questions on the 7 Stages of Internal Monads, I would like the basic information on the 7 Stages of the 2nd Internal Monad and any additional information that indicates non-completion of the 2nd IM in negative poles vs completing it in positive poles.

 

MEntity:  The 2nd Internal Monad might be said to be the process of Sexual Awakening, or the establishment of ones capacity for intimacy. As it is a process of differentiation, it is also a process of awakening autonomy.

 

"Sexual" here is meant both in the sense of stimulation and affectionate resonance, or moving in unison with something other than self.

 

The 7 Stages here may go as such:

 

INITIATION comes with a Positive Pole of Differentiation and a Negative Pole of Division.

 

INTROSPECTION comes with a Positive Pole of Observation and a Negative Pole of Agitation.

 

REALIZATION comes with a Positive Pole of Consonance and a Negative Pole of Mimic.

 

MANIFESTATION comes with a Positive Pole of Mobility and a Negative Pole of Activity.

 

CONTENTMENT comes with a Positive Pole of Curiosity and a Negative Pole of Provocation.

 

MAGNETIZATION comes with a Positive Pole of Asking and a Negative Pole of Demanding.

 

EMANATION comes with a Positive Pole of Coordination and a Negative Pole of Violence.

 

Those who complete this Internal Monad successfully tend to gain a mobility in life that is in harmony with others, sexually and otherwise, with a circuit of awareness that allows for consideration, harmonious movement, and healthy exchanges, while those who do not complete this Internal Monad, or complete it in the Negative Pole can tend toward sexual conflicts (both of the physical and energetic kind), as well as a movement through life with entitlement, demand, and even violence.

 

Valid cases of Autism are incompleted 2nd Internal Monads.

 

We will conclude with that synopsis, though there is always more.

 

Edited by Maureen
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I could be wrong but I feel like a sentence is missing from Nan's answer.

Something about a lack of the emotional center showing up as stuff like outbursts, but I don't quite remember.

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7 hours ago, Bobby said:

It is always your responsibility to grow, but it is never your responsibility to accommodate the lack of growth in someone else.

 

Yes!

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8 hours ago, KurtisM said:

I could be wrong but I feel like a sentence is missing from Nan's answer.

Something about a lack of the emotional center showing up as stuff like outbursts, but I don't quite remember.

 

Fixed!

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16 hours ago, Bobby said:

MEntity on Trump: It is a tactic that is much like a toddler throwing a tantrum wherein your responses are a forced response no matter what you choose to do because you are forced to respond. One slowly grows accustomed and simply responds. This is powerful Tyranny as the force is developed from within the oppressed and begins to feel necessary and "normal," relieving the oppressor of the pressure to sustain force.

 

Tom Tomorrow gets it: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/03/06/1639878/-Cartoon-The-return-of-Baby-Man

 

 

BabyMan.png

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13 hours ago, Maureen said:

MEntity:  The 2nd Internal Monad might be said to be the process of Sexual Awakening, or the establishment of ones capacity for intimacy. As it is a process of differentiation, it is also a process of awakening autonomy.

 

"Sexual" here is meant both in the sense of stimulation and affectionate resonance, or moving in unison with something other than self.

...

Valid cases of Autism are incompleted 2nd Internal Monads.

Autism is .. what?? That must have been a slip.. I could buy "narcissism" in the making.

 

http://library.truthloveenergy.com/Michael-Teachings/the-7-internal-monads/

Quote

2. Autonomy (age 3 or so)

This is the adjustment of the body and Personality in relation to the Higher Moving Center, or Sexual Chakra.

 

As an adult, Tell-tale signs of an incomplete SECOND Internal Monad are Intimacy issues, lack of social skills, bowel problems, preoccupation with remaining under parental care, or a strong need for approval far into your adulthood.

 

As a child, the incomplete Second Internal Monad will show up as soon as Adolescence, with violence, complete rebellion against all things, sexual promiscuity (defined here as having sex to just have it, usually for attention or acceptance, without meaning, curiosity, or relevance on any level), rape, dropping out from all forms of organization.

 

As an adult, a completed Second Monad is usually seen by being able to have sexual intimacy, affection, and a healthy seeking or allowance of that. Parents are seen as people, not resources or reasons for who you are.

 

As a child, the completed Second Monad will show most during the Third Monad (adolescence) as a healthy and completed separation from parental or guardian care, even if only psychologically, and the beginnings of seeking “true love”, dating, consensual sex.

 

3. Adolescence (age 12 – 20 or so)

This is the adjustment of the body and Personality in relation to the Moving Center, or Power Chakra.

 

Tell-tale signs of an incomplete THIRD Internal Monad show strongly through the Fourth Monad (and beyond, if not addressed) as “authority issues”, rage, constant involvement in confrontation, a preoccupation with “getting attention” and/or acceptance despite destructive behavior, and finding it very important to rally others alongside them for support against something.

 

A completion of the Third Monad usually finds the adult being able to side-step confrontation, usually doesn’t even attract it, is peaceful about differences, recognizes “authority” for what it is and leaves it to its context and allowing those who wish to play that game to do so, rather than being preoccupied with fighting it.

 

 

This makes more sense to me. 2nd monad is about parent-child intimacy failure caused core wounding - mommy or daddy issues.

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Posted (edited)

Thank you for your question Cong. I can relate to some extent, not at least because in my country the social safety-net is really well developed. You have to "work hard" to fall through the cracks and almost harder to stay outside of the established society.

 

In general I do not experience ambivalence in how to relate, nor do I care for anyone showing me gratitude. The information about Emotional Centre however, is very interesting and  however I'll choose to act I'll be keeping this in mind from now-on:

 

19 hours ago, Bobby said:

For many who have had to learn to "walk up and ask for money," the emotional center grows closed, quieted, and protected to help deal with the constant refusals and rejections and they are focused on survival. The time for gratitude often comes privately once the person is safe, fed, and has a moment to reflect.

 

Edited by PPLD
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11 minutes ago, wimms said:

Autism is .. what?? That must have been a slip.. I could buy "narcissism" in the making.

 

http://library.truthloveenergy.com/Michael-Teachings/the-7-internal-monads/

 

This makes more sense to me. 2nd monad is about parent-child intimacy failure caused core wounding - mommy or daddy issues.

 

 

Thanks for finding more complete material Wimm.  :sunny:

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What's the problem with autism going along with an incomplete 2nd Internal Monad? It makes sense to me, especially after reading this:

 

Quote

As an adult, Tell-tale signs of an incomplete SECOND Internal Monad are Intimacy issues, lack of social skills, bowel problems, preoccupation with remaining under parental care, or a strong need for approval far into your adulthood.

 

Those signs are not mutually exclusive with autism; in fact, some of them are tell-tale signs of autism! (Note that Michael said "valid cases of autism". They're probably not talking about narcissists armchair diagnosing themselves with autism to excuse their abusive behaviours.)

 

It would probably be difficult, if not impossible, for someone with severe autism to complete their 2nd Internal Monad, simply because of their symptoms and complete need for care. I don't think Michael's saying that an incomplete 2nd IM is the cause of autism... rather, autism could be the cause of an incomplete 2nd IM. And they're not saying autism is the only cause of an incomplete 2nd IM, either. Trump doesn't have autism. He's got something... but that'll be for his psychiatrists to figure out.

 

From a Michael teachings perspective, Trump seems to have issues with both the 2nd (especially that need for approval) and 3rd IMs. But that makes sense, doesn't it? You're going to have problems with your 3rd IM if you've messed up your 2nd.

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4 hours ago, Sarah said:

I don't think Michael's saying that an incomplete 2nd IM is the cause of autism... rather, autism could be the cause of an incomplete 2nd IM.

I agree with that for sure. 

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Posted (edited)

12 hours ago, Sarah said:

What's the problem with autism going along with an incomplete 2nd Internal Monad? It makes sense to me, especially after reading this:

 

 

Those signs are not mutually exclusive with autism; in fact, some of them are tell-tale signs of autism! (Note that Michael said "valid cases of autism". They're probably not talking about narcissists armchair diagnosing themselves with autism to excuse their abusive behaviours.)

 

It would probably be difficult, if not impossible, for someone with severe autism to complete their 2nd Internal Monad, simply because of their symptoms and complete need for care.

 

I don't think Michael's saying that an incomplete 2nd IM is the cause of autism... rather, autism could be the cause of an incomplete 2nd IM.

For me it doesn't make sense either way. This autism statement just looks so out of place there. I'll try to explain.

 

There is alot of misunderstanding of autistic spectrum. Like it is a disability that defines a person for life. It isn't and vast majority of autists pass 2nd IM just fine. Narcissists most certainly don't - they are made during the 2nd IM.

 

Autistic are certainly different, sure, and you should know how. Please take a look at these talks

 

 

try to tell if those people have comparable difficulties in life and if they have completed their 2nd IM.
What makes them apart from Trump who had it all? I tell you what - those people had love in their childhood when they needed it, and Trump didn't. Thats what. Thats pervasive for all people with narcissistic or borderline personality disorder. World is full of this. Our dearest friends at TLE are affected by it throughout their lives and struggle.

 

This IM has nothing to do with autism, disabilities, or any differences, at all. Any one of the problems could in theory alienate a parent, but in reality it can't. Only parent with issues themselves (incompleted 2nd IM) could abandon their child at the same stage where they were abandoned. Differences or not. Completing or failing 2nd IM can happen equally to child with or without any of the disabilities or differences, autism is affecting none of it.

 

Symptoms have underlying causes, and these causes have deeper reasons.
If you read the description of 2nd IM with a thought you may realise that it almost purely describes the resulting fallout of parential neglect or love before the age of 3. Thats what it is - parential intimacy that makes or brakes a heart, leaving core wounding. And of course core wounding will manifest - as neediness, fears, self-deprecation, arrogance, the whole lot of chief features, for decades into the future.

 

Distinguish between dependency and codependency. Every child upto age of 3 is completely dependent on his parent. That does not stop us from completing 2nd IM. Codependency is different, and thats what is implied in description of IM. And it is installed by critical sensation of lack during the infancy.

 

Note that the context of the original quote was sexual awakening. With whom at the age of 3? No, it is about what happened to a child before the age of 3 that is defining what he will be feeling all the way until the age of 20 when seeking for a partner, if he even dares. Will he have a faintest idea why he is having such a trouble with intimacy when the wounding that underlies it was done already when he was 1-2yo and not even selfaware yet?

 

Autism does not hinder anyone from completing 2nd IM simply because the only people he needs to sociolize with is his parents. It is his parents that define whether he will complete this IM at the age of 3, or some 4 decades later. Edit: Later on his own, obviously.

Edited by wimms
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48 minutes ago, wimms said:

It is his parents that define whether he will complete this IM at the age of 3, or some 4 decades later.

 

I couldn't disagree more with that statement.  Even a 70 year old man-boy can determine to go back and correct this deficiency for this IM or any successive IMs.

 

I certainly would be offended to be told that it were up to my own parents to determine that my own 3rd, 4th or 5th IM were up to them whether or not I would successfully transit those IMs.  No!  That is up to me and me alone.  Hell, for many of those, they have not successfully completed.  How in hell could I possibly manage to do so given those conditions?

 

If you wish to continue your claim, I hereby challenge you to show up to the next Ask Michael and present your case in the form of a question, otherwise, we have what Michael has said about this.  If I can identify you, I'll even insure you get the first question.

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That's your opinion, wimms. If you want to discount the experience of part of the spectrum for whom autism is a major disability, that's your choice. If you want to ignore a piece of information Michael has offered, that's your choice, too. But please don't expect everybody else to share that same opinion. All you've done here is show me that you subscribe to the neurodiversity movement... and I learned a long time ago that you guys can't be swayed or reasoned with. Please do not imply that we're the ones who are stupid, or that we're the ones with reading comprehension issues. Sexual awakening at 3? Give me a break. The quote was:

 

Quote

As an adult, Tell-tale signs of an incomplete SECOND Internal Monad are Intimacy issues, lack of social skills, bowel problems, preoccupation with remaining under parental care, or a strong need for approval far into your adulthood.

 

Key words: AS AN ADULT

 

And then:

 

Quote

As a child, the incomplete Second Internal Monad will show up as soon as Adolescence, with violence, complete rebellion against all things, sexual promiscuity (defined here as having sex to just have it, usually for attention or acceptance, without meaning, curiosity, or relevance on any level), rape, dropping out from all forms of organization.

 

Key words: AS SOON AS ADOLESCENCE

 

Nobody's saying toddlers are having sexual awakenings. You inferred that. Not us.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, wimms said:

There is alot of misunderstanding of autistic spectrum. Like it is a disability that defines a person for life. It isn't and vast majority of autists pass 2nd IM just fine.

i would assume Michael was referring to the low functioning end of the spectrum, when it comes to not completing the 2nd monad.  For low functioning individuals, it sure does define their life unfortunately.  I am a parent of a child on the spectrum, and know many parents with kids ranging from severe to mild, and i can tell you that the low functioning kids all have issues with autonomy, including walking delay, talking delay, bathroom issues, etc. 
This topic makes me wonder though, if any interventions such as therapy, biomedical, homeopathic helping these kids function better physically can assist in these kids possibly revisiting the missed 2nd monad. I ask because i know a few stories where people were doing biomedical interventions, and their child not only gained the ability to talk, but being able to go to the bathroom on their own is usually one of the first big milestones for the low functioning kids, when interventions are started.   I guess i would have to ask Michael weather physical functioning can be improved, thereby increasing the odds of finishing the monad, and maybee that finishing the monad is part of the improvement parents notice after starting interventions.  

Edited by Matt
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I just realized that the 2nd IM does sound like Sheldon from Big Bang Theory (a character with Asperger's for those who don't know). He's also a narcissist, on the adorable end of the spectrum. ;)

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6 hours ago, Bobby said:

 

I couldn't disagree more with that statement.  Even a 70 year old man-boy can determine to go back and correct this deficiency for this IM or any successive IMs.

 

I certainly would be offended to be told that it were up to my own parents to determine that my own 3rd, 4th or 5th IM were up to them whether or not I would successfully transit those IMs.  No!  That is up to me and me alone.  Hell, for many of those, they have not successfully completed.  How in hell could I possibly manage to do so given those conditions?

 

If you wish to continue your claim, I hereby challenge you to show up to the next Ask Michael and present your case in the form of a question, otherwise, we have what Michael has said about this.  If I can identify you, I'll even insure you get the first question.

Bad wording on my part. I obviously implied that later on man would have to do that on his own, as you said. But parents can help you pass 2nd IM at the age of 3 without you even thinking about it. Any narcissist can determine to go back and correct his deficiency, but it is incredibly hard for them. Not everyone is narcissist who incompleted 2nd IM, so, you see, the spectrum of ways how 2nd IM is completed is widely different for people. 4 decades later is figuratively speaking, hinting to that time in our life when lots of those things come up again to be dealt with.

 

I have no need to ask that question. I have my understanding of what Michael said.

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6 hours ago, Matt said:

i would assume Michael was referring to the low functioning end of the spectrum, when it comes to not completing the 2nd monad.  For low functioning individuals, it sure does define their life unfortunately.  I am a parent of a child on the spectrum, and know many parents with kids ranging from severe to mild, and i can tell you that the low functioning kids all have issues with autonomy, including walking delay, talking delay, bathroom issues, etc.

I know. But I don't think Michael would refer as a generalization to a minority group within a minority of population.

 

I included a talk of Nick to show an example of disability that most certainly has issues with autonomy, delays, bathroom issues, etc. Yet I believe you would agree with me that he has passed 2nd IM just fine and is not doomed to forever incompleted 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc IM.

So are most of the autists even if when by measuring them with a stick of a "normal" person they fail. They really don't, they just live in a more limited space than we do. Their failures are different too.
 

Yet we have a man-boy Trump who has no issues with autonomy, yet we can't see him past 2nd IM. He's been broken since age of 3 and of course it is him to be blamed in full?

 

I am parenting a child who was abandoned by his mother right after giving birth, father unknown, who was without mother's intimacy for 2 years since birth before we adopted. She has deep issues we can't possibly undo for her whatever we try. Its there, hard and solid, and will be until she is old enough to raise above it on her own. We can't help her through 2nd IM, the damage has already been done. Thats what parents do.

 

On 6.3.2017 at 2:16 AM, Maureen said:

MEntity:  An unsuccessful completion of a 2nd Internal Monad is often marked by classic Co-dependence, the inability to do much of anything without a reference to someone else. It is the inability to walk on one's own.

 

MEntity:  We do not refer to those who have physical disabilities, but anyone, regardless of mobility.

 

 

All I'm saying is just consider that low functioning individuals due to disabilities are not the subjects of this matter.

 

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Posted (edited)

11 hours ago, Sarah said:

That's your opinion, wimms. If you want to discount the experience of part of the spectrum for whom autism is a major disability, that's your choice. If you want to ignore a piece of information Michael has offered, that's your choice, too. But please don't expect everybody else to share that same opinion. All you've done here is show me that you subscribe to the neurodiversity movement... and I learned a long time ago that you guys can't be swayed or reasoned with.

 

Of course this is my opinion, Sarah. And no I don't expect or even try to make anyone share my view. I merely explain myself, as you asked. And most definitely I'm not discounting autism as disability.

 

I have to wonder though, why is it that my opinion has been taken as hostile and that I have to be placed into "them" category, even if it seems forced? I also have no idea what neurodiversity movement is and I have no idea why you would "box" me.

 

But I do have a low functioning autistic child in my circle and I have a grasp of his limitations, and I fully agree that he does have a major disability. For eg. he hasn't mastered speech by age of 9. Autism is his disability, much like Nick was born without limbs. That autistic disability will be with him for life much like Nick will have mobility issues for life. Yet I've interacted with that child and I know full well that he is whole - he knows he is loved, he's never been neglected, he is capable of true intimacy, has childlike innocence, but no toddler immaturity, he has no violence or rebellion in him, he's compassionate, loyal, has his own firm opinion, seeks no cheap approval. He is dependent, but not codependent. He has enough (incl emotional) autonomy. Whatever way I look, he is pretty much finely through 2nd IM and symptoms at adolescence can only confirm that. Yet, if I use the checklist of 2nd IM at face value, he will never be able to pass 2nd IM, as he certainly will not make many friends at high school due to "lack of social skills", or pick up girls due to "intimacy issues". Sure, there are those who have it worse, but this child is definitely a "valid case of autism" and not the mildest one.

 

Whatever limitations this child will have will be due to his disability, but 2nd IM is not one of them. For me, 2nd IM is about emotional maturity, and he's doing fine.

 

On 6.3.2017 at 2:16 AM, Maureen said:

MEntity:  We do not refer to those who have physical disabilities, but anyone, regardless of mobility.

 

Sure, if things are so bad that human mind is not functional, there is no talking of growth and passing IMs. But autism is hardly a good example to convey that.

 

Quote

Please do not imply that we're the ones who are stupid, or that we're the ones with reading comprehension issues.

Oh really, did I leave impression I imply that? How? I'm afraid you're projecting..

 

Quote

Sexual awakening at 3? Give me a break. The quote was:

 

Nobody's saying toddlers are having sexual awakenings. You inferred that. Not us.

On 6.3.2017 at 6:30 AM, Maureen said:

MEntity:  The 2nd Internal Monad might be said to be the process of Sexual Awakening, or the establishment of ones capacity for intimacy. As it is a process of differentiation, it is also a process of awakening autonomy.

 

"Sexual" here is meant both in the sense of stimulation and affectionate resonance, or moving in unison with something other than self.

http://our.truthloveenergy.com/articles.html/library/personality-dynamics/internal-monads/second-internal-monad/the-7-stages-of-the-2nd-internal-monad-r71/

 

I never inferred anyone's saying that toddlers have sexual urges. On contrary, I offered you how to reconcile these two sources are talking about the same thing. Frankly, I assumed that you would read those passages you quoted and understand them together with what I wrote, having seen the above quote.

 

Edited by wimms

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wimms, in all seriousness here,  I hope you will consider posting this subject as a potential topic for a Michael Speaks session.  I think a lot could be learned about this subject in a more focused session.  I commend you for taking on this challenge that you've accepted in such a loving way.  Perhaps Michael would have some valuable advice for what is possible for both the child and the parent in these situations or at a minimum offer greater understanding from a Personality perspective as well as an Essence perspective.

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