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MMW - March 18, 2017 - Transcending Ego

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Evelin

Cool session and fascinating discussion!

 

@DianeHB, I find it cool that you as a King are working so keenly on Transcendence, because in a talk about the Core Values of the Roles, Michael said about Kings: "...a living example of Transcendence (or getting out of one's own way)." My Realist attitude really resonates with the logic of "getting out of one's own way", although many parts of me find the perspective scary. Sometimes, fear of success is greater than fear of failure.

I admire those of you who are brave enough to try shrooms and other stuff. I never much liked the influence of mind-altering substances, caffeine or the equivalent of two glasses of wine is my limit. Meditation -- yes. Other inner journeys -- yes. When I first read about OBEs, my immediate sense was: I don't want to try it because I might not want to come back to the body. There's a deep part of me that likes the non-physical much more and I'm afraid I'd find it sad and depressing to come back into this zipped state of being after feeling fully stretched out for a while. I suppose "a trip" is a mini version of an OBE and might not be as scary, but I still feel like I'm not ready. It feels like too quick a shortcut for me, and I'd rather experience all the minutiae of inner change, like a meticulous Scholar ever :)
 

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Troy

@Mattand @Stickyflamesare posting voices from various parts of my own experiences. I love that!

 

I used to frown upon drugs mostly because of who I associated with using them and how I saw them behave as a result. They did use them as escape. They did use them as recreation. They did use them as a way to give permission to behaving differently than they were when sober. They did find them addictive. Some almost died. And most were just super gross and/or annoying people. So none of this appealed to me. I didn't enjoy seeing people change before my eyes and behave ridiculously and speak as if there was some kind of revelation. I just saw annoying people. So that informed my decision to stay away from drugs. I just don't enjoy that whole world. Besides, I always felt I was already on the teetering edge of reality so any drug I would use would just send me flying out of control into the ethers or I would lose control over my sense of identity.

 

Now, after all of these years, I see that there is a whole world of more mindful uses for drugs with the entire point being to release us from this weird addiction to a familiar and linear identity. Now I have great respect for those who truly feel changed and moved by a drug experience that prompts them to make changes in their lives for the better. They are very different from the people I used to associate with drug use.

 

I also don't think drugs change who you are. They unlock or recalibrate what comes to the surface for us to use, but that stuff was already always there... they don't change us. We are who we are, but we are way more than our pinpoint of waking state, sober consciousness.

 

So when it comes to drugs, it's not about who does it, how they do it, or what they testify as a result... it's as subjective an experience as flavor. We just don't know until we try, and the choice for trying or not trying should be a personal choice, not one informed by the bad behaviors or the glowing reports from others.

 

I am now more open to trying them than ever, but will probably never do it. Not for any other reason than that I am already deep in practices that free me from my ego and keep me open to all parts of me. Every time I channel, it is a practice in transcending ego and in meditation. It's a practice. I'm nowhere near free from my ego or above it, but I constantly practice.

 

Besides, I have a weird resistance to drugs. My drug resistance is so high that morphine didn't have much of an effect on me, and I can only take one kind of pain reliever that works, and a trip to the dentist is a nightmare, and I shocked everyone (including myself, god help me) when I woke up in the middle of my colonoscopy!

 

I can get drunk, but I don't change from it... I just get more amplified as me, and boy does my affectionate and loving side come out... soooo... WATCH OUT!

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Bobby
33 minutes ago, Troy said:

 

I can get drunk, but I don't change from it... I just get more amplified as me, and boy does my affectionate and loving side come out... soooo... WATCH OUT!

 

That's better than the angry drunk that some turn into  :)   I have no tolerance for those!

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DianeHB
2 hours ago, Evelin said:

Cool session and fascinating discussion!

 

@DianeHB, I find it cool that you as a King are working so keenly on Transcendence, because in a talk about the Core Values of the Roles, Michael said about Kings: "...a living example of Transcendence (or getting out of one's own way)." My Realist attitude really resonates with the logic of "getting out of one's own way", although many parts of me find the perspective scary. Sometimes, fear of success is greater than fear of failure.

I admire those of you who are brave enough to try shrooms and other stuff. I never much liked the influence of mind-altering substances, caffeine or the equivalent of two glasses of wine is my limit. Meditation -- yes. Other inner journeys -- yes. When I first read about OBEs, my immediate sense was: I don't want to try it because I might not want to come back to the body. There's a deep part of me that likes the non-physical much more and I'm afraid I'd find it sad and depressing to come back into this zipped state of being after feeling fully stretched out for a while. I suppose "a trip" is a mini version of an OBE and might not be as scary, but I still feel like I'm not ready. It feels like too quick a shortcut for me, and I'd rather experience all the minutiae of inner change, like a meticulous Scholar ever :)
 

 

Evelin, I totally didn't put two and two together!! I hadn't realized in the core values session that Transcendence referred to a specific state, either. Now it all makes sense. I think Transcendence is such a drive for me because it's mastery of the self.

 

Between you and Royce, I'm starting to see why some people who already live "between worlds" would not be drawn to psychedelics. I'm someone firmly planted in the physical/tangible, so something that makes it easier for me to access the intangible is fascinating. I think you'd have more control in OBEs than in a psychedelic trip, though.

 

You know, this tendency of the King to pursue Transcendence makes me wonder if Yuval Harari is a King (probably Scholar cast). I had thought he might be a Scholar at first, but the way he studies everything and pulls it all together into a whole is very Kingly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Scholars I know tend to specialize in certain subjects and go deep into them, while I tend to go wide, and Harari does, too. I will read a lot of different subjects and make connections between them. Also his responses in the article posted tend to be comprehensive, big-picture-oriented, and focused on What Matters Most. It sounded so familiar to me, and I think not just because it sounds like Michael or that he might be Transcendent, but because he's a King.

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Rosario

@MattI get you! I prefer being just "me".  My friends say I'm naturally "high", so ... ?  But if the opportunity arises, I'll may try something new. I love meditation in forms as dancing, music, yoga and the usual concentration on breath or a particular thought...Everything can be an excuse to meditate and relax in your own being! Meditation is life.

 

@DianeHB and @Troy Thank you! I already love Yuval! I'm going to start reading Sapiens.

 

Here's an interview with Ezra Klein. He talks about stories we tell us and his regular practice of  hardcore vipassana meditation LOL. 

http://www.vox.com/2017/2/28/14745596/yuval-harari-sapiens-interview-meditation-ezra-klein

 

 

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Heidi
1 hour ago, Troy said:

I also don't think drugs change who you are. They unlock or recalibrate what comes to the surface for us to use, but that stuff was already always there... they don't change us. We are who we are, but we are way more than our pinpoint of waking state, sober consciousness.

 

This. The most profound experience I've had while under the influence was discovering my potential to love more, listen more, that vulnerability isn't a weakness, etc., etc. 

I learned I had the tools all along. Just need to use them more! :)

 

 

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DianeHB
3 hours ago, Evelin said:

Cool session and fascinating discussion!

 

@DianeHB, I find it cool that you as a King are working so keenly on Transcendence, because in a talk about the Core Values of the Roles, Michael said about Kings: "...a living example of Transcendence (or getting out of one's own way)." 
 

 

Speaking of Kings, doesn't the whole idea of transcending the ego have Buddhist origins, and the Buddha was a King?

Edited by DianeHB
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Maureen
35 minutes ago, DianeHB said:

 

Speaking of Kings, doesn't the whole idea of transcending the ego have Buddhist origins, and the Buddha was a King?

 

 

Buddha was a Priest. Only a Priest could (want to) meditate all day like he did!!  LOL!  I double checked this with Troy a while ago ...and he confirmed it. I'm not sure where the story started that he was a King -- perhaps it's because he was born a prince or the old idea that all Infinite Souls have to be Kings - like Jesus was.

 

 

Edited by Maureen
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Maureen

I really liked this story of a woman who took mushrooms as a form of therapy under the surveillance of a trained psychologist to treat her anxiety and depression. Here's an excerpt and the link to the article and video: Watch 65-Year-Old With Cancer Describes Her Mushroom Trip.

 

"When 65-year-old Estalyn Walcoff took psilocybin, the active ingredient in psychedelic “magic” mushrooms, her worst fears and pains came up to the surface. Then, they transformed into a profound “feeling of connectedness that runs through all of us,” she said in a video. Walcoff called the experience, “the most precious thing I’ve ever known.”

 

Five years prior to her mushroom experience, when she was 60, Walcoff was diagnosed with an aggressive form of cancer and experienced severe, unending anxiety. As Business Insider put it in a recent article, “even on good days, her constant feelings of worry and fear hung in the back of her mind like a dark curtain.”

 

Walcoff took mushrooms in a living room-like setting under the surveillance of trained psychologist, Jeffrey Guss and psychotherapist, Seema Desai, as part of a New York University clinical trial assessing the impact of psilocybin on cancer patients with anxiety and depression."

 

Edited by Maureen
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Uma

This whole session and comments are very interesting to me. I started smoking grass in the 50s, in my early teens and loved it. Then, in 1963, Timothy Leary and Richard Alpert brought the manuscript of The Psychedelic Experience to the publisher where I was working my first job as an editorial assistant. The manuscript was about a foot thick and the boss of University Books, Felix Morrow, told me that he wasn't going to publish it because it was too big, too repetitive and too dense for a Western audience. I asked if I could have a shot at editing it, he said yes, and I spent the night cutting and pasting the hard copy into what I thought was the essence of it. When I showed it to Felix the next day, he said he would publish that version if I could get them to agree. I spent the next 6 months traveling to Millbrook every weekend to work on the book. That's where I had my first of many many LSD trips. (And that is the version of the manuscript that got published as The Psychedelic Experience.) The 60s were filled with many experiences of many drugs, sex and rock and roll, but by 1970 I had decided not to take any more psychedelics as the experiences were beginning to repeat themselves and I found them boring. That's when I met Swami Muktananda, received Shaktipat initiation and spent the next 20 years meditating, chanting and offering service in his ashrams in India and around the world. He was often asked about drugs and always said that the problem with drugs was that you come down from the experience they give you. He said that meditation could give you a permanent expanded 'high' experience, so he recommended meditation. Before I left the ashram I 'met' Michael, and they have been a source of insight and guidance ever since. So, the point I want to make here, is that I have used both drugs and meditation and they both work, although differently and not the same for everyone. One of the great benefits of Michael's teachings for me has been the ability to assess my experiences and the truths they revealed through a lens free of the male, priestly and Indian cultural imprints. The teachings also allowed me to connect with my Self, my essence, without the rituals and practices that were part of that in the ashram, and in the comfort of my own home, no chanting mantras for hours or sitting in the lotus posture necessary. What a relief! And I still enjoy grass as an easy means for changing my mindset any time and providing access to the higher centers through music or reading or meditation. This Workshop has given me a lot as I prepare for my next Michael session tomorrow. I thought I had all my questions planned, but this changes everything.

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Bobby

Anyone have any experience with DMT?  I'm not even really sure what that is but after the discussion on this thread I was searching around on a few things and came across that.  It sounds like another fascinating way to experience things like with LSD but with a much faster recovery time.

 

 

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NickG

I was never one for drugs in my teens generally shying away from mary jane, ectasy, and pretty much everything else but mushrooms always fascinated me and was something I always wanted to try. One thing that's weird though is I was just reading a Seth book called the Nature of Personal Reality and Seth was very adamant about not doing any hallucinogenic drugs because it somehow separated the personality from an anchor in the physical plane or something along those lines. I was kind of put off by it because I'd never seen a channeled entity flat out say you shouldn't do something. Though I considered it, I wonder if it was Jane Roberts own ego freaking out about being transformed or something. Still am willing to try lol just need a baby sitter :) 

Edited by NickG
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DianeHB
On 3/19/2017 at 8:20 PM, Cong said:

@DianeHB just by reading some of your recents posts, and compared them to your earlier ones, I got a strong feeling that you have transcended yourself in quite significant ways. For me, it is the level of compassion that you showed - it means a lot to me, as Michael has once told me compassionate leadership is something I deeply appreciate after working with Kings and Priests closely over many lifetimes.

 

 

Thanks Cong. It has been a long, rewarding journey. I hardly even remember what I used to be like, that's the funny thing. I think one of the coolest things about TLE is that you see people change and grow and expand over the years.

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Uma

DMT was one of the drugs I tried--in fact, my experience of it was that I saw myself in four previous lives. I think it is derived from formaldehyde. It was a gel that I put on some parsley and rolled into a joint and smoked. It lasted about 2 hours, was very visual--like a VanGogh painting, with everything outlined in black and vibrant colors. In fact I remember thinking that Van Gogh must have had something like that in his system because the world looked like he painted it. I also remember that I did not do it again. We're talking mid 60s, so my memory is not all that sharp.

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Tristan
On 3/18/2017 at 6:21 PM, Bobby said:

As the Ego resides in the Intellect, this practice could be seen as a way to give your Ego a rest, not as a means to destroy or put it to sleep.

 

The more rest your Ego enjoys, the less it feels compelled to protect you in ways that require no protection.

 

This is one of the best descriptions/benefits of meditation I've ever read.

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Evelin
On 20.3.2017 at 5:29 PM, DianeHB said:

 

Evelin, I totally didn't put two and two together!! I hadn't realized in the core values session that Transcendence referred to a specific state, either. Now it all makes sense. I think Transcendence is such a drive for me because it's mastery of the self.

 

Between you and Royce, I'm starting to see why some people who already live "between worlds" would not be drawn to psychedelics. I'm someone firmly planted in the physical/tangible, so something that makes it easier for me to access the intangible is fascinating. I think you'd have more control in OBEs than in a psychedelic trip, though.

 

You know, this tendency of the King to pursue Transcendence makes me wonder if Yuval Harari is a King (probably Scholar cast). I had thought he might be a Scholar at first, but the way he studies everything and pulls it all together into a whole is very Kingly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Scholars I know tend to specialize in certain subjects and go deep into them, while I tend to go wide, and Harari does, too. I will read a lot of different subjects and make connections between them. Also his responses in the article posted tend to be comprehensive, big-picture-oriented, and focused on What Matters Most. It sounded so familiar to me, and I think not just because it sounds like Michael or that he might be Transcendent, but because he's a King.

 

Diane, glad I connected some dots for you :) I often wonder why some deeper things Michael mentions about Kings help me profoundly as I'm not a King, but it's probably because of my Life Task of "getting to know me". I also want to "get out of my own way", this 4th Old lifetime seems to be learning my tune profoundly, before I start improvising as whacky 5th Old.
 

Yeah, some almost-regular meditation in my late teens and early 20s really opened me up to what I wanted, internally, without needing drugs. The Solar body type seems to have a shortcut to the Astral, or is that because of the lively imagination of Lunar...? Both, I'd suppose. Looking at my profile you'd assume I'd be rather firmly planted in the tangible, a Warrior cast Pragmatic Scholar, and I very much enjoy the physical, but I've always lived one foot in the dream world. You're probably right about OBEs allowing more control, but I'm seriously scared of those, no interest :)

Interesting you mentioning Yuval Harari! I had an article about him open in my browser for days and yesterday I had a moment in a bookstore and found myself reading 50 pages of "Sapiens". Very well written and with just the kind of large-scale, interdisciplinary touch that I like, paired with much common sense and a genuine appreciation for (our) humanity in a deep way. I haven't read enough by him yet to say if he's a King or not, but some King influence there, certainly.
Going wide seems to be one King thing, indeed. Another that sets Kings apart from Scholars for me is this deep, solid belief in Life itself, in the power of each and every one of us. What Matters Most is a good way of putting it -- Scholars can get lost in the details and structures, and they can be very convincing, but it can lack the power of What Matters Most. When I read Alice Miller there were several moments where another writer in the same field would have inserted several pages of a tangent concerning some specific debate or disagreement between scholars, but she simply mentioned the theories she questions -- with utmost respect -- and got back to her point, with deep conviction. Reading her I truly felt she has the power of someone who has walked through her own darkness and now knows what she's talking about in her bones, in her heart, and that has huge impact. One book of hers gave me more non-logic-based strength than several others that contained much more intellectual explaining, and even more usable information. The other books told me how to take the steps and which steps to take and what to expect, but she gave me (back) the Why (I Matter). Hugely powerful, that.

 

I hugely appreciate you Kings! *sincere bow*

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Rachel

@NickG, I was recently reading the same Seth book, and I interpreted what he said as being against synthetic hallucinogens, not against natural, Earth-born mushrooms and our fragrant flower friends. Best not to overdo, of course. I agree with Seth, I don't think LSD is really safe and I personally would not risk it , but as for the others in moderation and not as a crutch, probably fine:) 

 

My mother had a severe reaction to LSD as a teenager in the 60s, suffering horrible depersonalization effects that lasted for months, where her life didn't seem real. Really damaging experience.

 

Scary, negative effects from mushrooms can happen, but nothing like this, so severe and long-lasting as what happened to my mother. Usually negative effects from mushrooms don't linger like that, thankfully.

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DianeHB

@Rachel It sounds like your mother might have taken too large of a dose (whether by accident or otherwise). My husband's brother-in-law through his late wife did large doses of LSD with Timothy Leary, and once took a whole gram that had him coming in and out of reality for two years. Your mother's symptoms sound a bit like his. A standard dose of LSD is 50 micrograms, so a gram is 20,000 times the normal dose. Since it's measured in such small quantities, it's really difficult to tell how much you're taking unless you know it came from a trustworthy source. 

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Uma
On 3/19/2017 at 9:22 AM, DianeHB said:

A psychedelic experience is like traveling through the Astral or the mind -- they even call it a trip.

 

I have been thinking about the Astral a lot lately, perhaps in preparation for my arrival there, and was going to ask Michael if it is like an acid trip in the sense that your mind thinks a thought and before you know it, you are down some rabbit hole. I have had many trips like that--some rabbit holes nicer than others, and always remembered I was tripping, eventually, and came back to the present, but the 'trip' seemed almost automatic, as a result of the thought, and too quick and slippery to stop. I wonder if the Astral is like that, and remembering 'I have a choice here' is a means of dealing with a hazard of the Astral Plane.

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DianeHB
12 minutes ago, UmaBerliner said:

 

I have been thinking about the Astral a lot lately, perhaps in preparation for my arrival there, and was going to ask Michael if it is like an acid trip in the sense that your mind thinks a thought and before you know it, you are down some rabbit hole. I have had many trips like that--some rabbit holes nicer than others, and always remembered I was tripping, eventually, and came back to the present, but the 'trip' seemed almost automatic, as a result of the thought, and too quick and slippery to stop. I wonder if the Astral is like that, and remembering 'I have a choice here' is a means of dealing with a hazard of the Astral Plane.

 

When I took mushrooms, for the first part of it (the "going down" part), I lay in bed and drifted in my mind. I had read a bunch of graphic novels that were rather violent the night before, and that was a mistake because those characters came a live and were talking to me in my head. ? I don't remember any specific conversations, but it was like a waking dream. Tex was lying next to me, and I would wake up every so often when he shifted in bed. I would then realize that I was still in my house, in my body. From that experience, I had the distinct sense that dying was like going to sleep and dreaming (whether true or not) -- except you never "wake up". I think I recall Michael saying something about those on psychedelics accessing the lower Astral, but I can't find it now. 

Edited by DianeHB
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Uma
9 minutes ago, DianeHB said:

I think I recall Michael saying something about those on psychedelics accessing the lower Astral, but I can't find it now. 

Yes, Michael did say that those on drugs access the lower Astral. My question is: is the Astral like acid or do you have more control of your thoughts? Part of my Guru's teaching was that a quiet mind is essential for this very reason--so that it does not take you places you don't want to go after death--but many of the teachings of Hinduism are so full of fear-mongering for behavior control, I always check with Michael. This is one of my pending questions for my next session. I have been reading the material here on the site about the Astral Plane but haven't come across an answer to this. One of the great things Michael's teachings have given me is the idea that it's all going to work out in the end, so just relax and enjoy. Why not?

Edited by UmaBerliner
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DianeHB
1 hour ago, UmaBerliner said:

Yes, Michael did say that those on drugs access the lower Astral. My question is: is the Astral like acid or do you have more control of your thoughts? Part of my Guru's teaching was that a quiet mind is essential for this very reason--so that it does not take you places you don't want to go after death--but many of the teachings of Hinduism are so full of fear-mongering for behavior control, I always check with Michael. This is one of my pending questions for my next session. I have been reading the material here on the site about the Astral Plane but haven't come across an answer to this. One of the great things Michael's teachings have given me is the idea that it's all going to work out in the end, so just relax and enjoy. Why not?

 

I think the practice of focusing your mind would help with transitioning to the Astral, but with some caveats. For one thing, if the quiet mind is reached through suppression or denial, I imagine the denied thoughts/emotions would still need to be dealt with on the Astral. Second, I think that doing "the work", learning from experiences, manifesting Essence, and everything we do as Michael students helps ease the transition because we're doing the work most people leave for their Life Review. Third, even if we transition with a chaotic mind (although if you're asking this question, you're well ahead of the general population), we quickly learn to navigate thoughts and emotions differently when they shape our reality, compared to when they don't on the physical plane (I believe Michael may have said something along those lines). Based on sessions about Life Reviews, even the most reactive of people eventually work through their issues during the review, so it's not like just because meditation wasn't a practice during life, we're shit out of luck on the Astral.

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Maureen

@UmaBerliner,  as I was reading your discussion with Diane, about the Astral plane, I thought of three sessions that might interest you. I'll give you the links.   :wind:

 

Dream on ~ Death, Sleep, and Surrender

 

Dreams of Reunion ~ and ~ Astral Plane vs. Physical Plane

 

A Post-Death Geraldine Followup

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Uma

@Maureen Thanks for the links. Will get to them later today! @DianeHB Thanks for those insights. I agree

6 hours ago, DianeHB said:

I think that doing "the work", learning from experiences, manifesting Essence, and everything we do as Michael students helps ease the transition because we're doing the work most people leave for their Life Review.

 

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ckaricai

@UmaBerliner So, a couple years ago I took this course, well I started it anyhow: https://www.dailyom.com/cgi-bin/courses/courseoverview.cgi?cid=288 It's about using meditation to find out more about yourself. The meditations basically take you thru the astral as you learn to navigate it in your meditations, and one of the first things I learned about was what you are saying - you have a thought about a place in the astral and next thing you know you are there. At first it was disorienting and pulled me out of mediation, and it was unintentional, but with practice I learned to control it. So for example, you can leave your entry room (a lot of meditations start with an entry room or entry door) and go to say, the Akashic Temple and if you think of your room, you are suddenly back there. But, after a few meditations I realized I could decide not to go there if I didn't want to so I didn't. It becomes kind of apparent that in that space thoughts really are things because you are using your thoughts to navigate and create while you are there. 

 

I've never done acid so I can't speak to that experience. 

 

 

Edited by ckaricai
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