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Jeroen

SpaceX submarine to rescue children in Thailand

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Jeroen

I was reading a recent article where Elon Musk and his team are working on building a small submarine from parts of a Falcon 9 rocket to help rescue the children from the Thailand cave.

 

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/7/17544452/elon-musk-spacex-thailand-cave-soccer-team-kid-sized-submarine-rescue

 

It is encouraging to see so many people coming together to find creative ways to help with the rescue.

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petra
@Jeroen  Thank you so much for this article. I was thinking about, that there has to be a technology to get these boys out. I am so grateful, and as you said, it is encouraging. The greatest resource we have is our imaginative and creative MINDS. Whatever people have to say about Elon Musk, I like my Entity Mate and the choices he makes.
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Ingun

I also read about that yesterday in the news, and Thailand has been offered help from all around the world, even from the foreign ministry here in Norway.

Isn't this Pragmatist been exemplified to all of us?

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Ingun

The 12 Thai boys and their coach are together 13...  I came to think about Support Circles and the 12 positions with the 13th position labelled Power Position.

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Connor

8 are rescued, now, 5 to go! Elon Musk's submarine is arriving soon, but will likely arrive too late to help with the operations. I hope the submarine gets used, because that will give some wonderful PR to Musk and his company, which will help propel him to new projects.

The coach has apparently been doing very good work by keeping his team calm and alive, but I don't envy him the potentially massive public reckoning which may ensue when he gets out. Hopefully the boys can speak on their coach's behalf, and no one will be looking to punish him too harshly for leading the boys into the cave in the first place. Now that a SEAL diver has drowned in the rescue operation, that complicates things and opens this coach to greater legal attack.

I'd bet a lot of chocolate the SEAL diver who drowned was burning a Ribbon. His death was very unfortunate, but it didn't feel like a gut punch, and it felt 'significant' that he died while trying to save those particular lives. Perhaps the Ribbon could've been burned anyway even if the diver had survived, which would certainly have been more pleasant for all parties involved, but such is life.

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Jeroen
9 hours ago, Connor said:

8 are rescued, now, 5 to go! Elon Musk's submarine is arriving soon, but will likely arrive too late to help with the operations. I hope the submarine gets used, because that will give some wonderful PR to Musk and his company, which will help propel him to new projects.

The coach has apparently been doing very good work by keeping his team calm and alive, but I don't envy him the potentially massive public reckoning which may ensue when he gets out. Hopefully the boys can speak on their coach's behalf, and no one will be looking to punish him too harshly for leading the boys into the cave in the first place. Now that a SEAL diver has drowned in the rescue operation, that complicates things and opens this coach to greater legal attack.

I'd bet a lot of chocolate the SEAL diver who drowned was burning a Ribbon. His death was very unfortunate, but it didn't feel like a gut punch, and it felt 'significant' that he died while trying to save those particular lives. Perhaps the Ribbon could've been burned anyway even if the diver had survived, which would certainly have been more pleasant for all parties involved, but such is life.

 

Agreed. I would like for the submarine to be used too and for Elon Musk to have opportunities for further projects. I love the work that he does.

 

I read that the parents of the children in the cave are not angry with the coach and said that he should not blame himself. Hopefully this will help him with minimizing possibilities of a public reckoning. I was thinking about the SEAL diver and it is sad what happened to him.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/jul/07/parents-boys-trapped-thai-cave-tell-coach-dont-blame-yourself-rescuers-race-against-time

 

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Connor
On 7/9/2018 at 12:57 PM, Connor said:

Elon Musk's submarine is arriving soon, but will likely arrive too late to help with the operations. I hope the submarine gets used, because that will give some wonderful PR to Elon Musk and his company, which will help propel him to new projects.

This one hurts now. In addition to being criticized for essentially pulling a PR stunt by building a submarine which stood no chance of navigating the flooded cave passages, news has broken within the past 24 hours that Elon Musk donated nearly forty thousand dollars to a PAC known as "Protect the House", whose mission is to make sure Republicans remain in control of Congress. He has blood on his hands, now.

Billionaires.

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Sam K
6 hours ago, Connor said:

This one hurts now. In addition to being criticized for essentially pulling a PR stunt by building a submarine which stood no chance of navigating the flooded cave passages, news has broken within the past 24 hours that Elon Musk donated nearly forty thousand dollars to a PAC known as "Protect the House", whose mission is to make sure Republicans remain in control of Congress. He has blood on his hands, now.

Billionaires.


You can (with some difficulty) become a billionaire without being an utter monster.  However, I have never seen nor heard of someone becoming a billionaire without being a self-serving prick in some respect.  It simply doesn't happen.  Musk donates to whichever politicians are in power because it benefits his businesses.  And why wouldn't he?  Things like fighting climate change and saving trapped kids might be good in his mind, but for people like Musk, the Highest Good will always be profit.  Doing something with his wealth and power to actually help right the wrongs of the world would be nice and all, but donating to the GOP makes him more money at the moment, so that's what he does.

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Joanne

Warren Buffet maybe🤔??

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DanielaS

Fascinating Twitter thread from a woman who makes some really interesting points about the difference in Silicon Valley Culture and the Culture of safety and rescue and the dangers of well-meaning celebrities who try to help. "There is obviously a lot of smart and creative people in tech, but they suffer from an Achilles Heel trio of weaknesses: self-perceived idealism as excuse, overconfidence in their capabilities outside their own areas of expertise, and lack of attentiveness to details and harms. In contrast, people like those top cave-divers who found & rescued the boys (their technical achievement & bravery is one for the ages) come from an opposite culture that is no less innovative but very very different. It's also quite modest so that hides the amazing nature of it."

 

And then Musk replies to her thread and things become weird. He calls one of the divers who helped in the rescue a "pedo" because he is British and lives in Thailand. 

 

 

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Sam K
On 7/15/2018 at 10:14 AM, Joanne said:

Warren Buffet maybe🤔??

 

Buffett's better than most of his ilk, but he did disown a granddaughter (fairly cruelly, at that) because she appeared in a documentary talking about wealth inequality and the privilege that comes with being a Buffett.

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Troy

I'm finally catching up on the whole condemnation of Elon Musk. The "internet" is so willing to destroy others without using any conscience or facts. Sometimes that mob mentality is helpful for something like the racist white people calling the police on innocent people of color. But this mob mentality is also terrifyingly voracious and mindless and dangerous. How the mob mentality went after Elon Musk is an example of misinformation and our petty (but mostly justified) addiction to villainizing people with money. I think we need to step back a bit and get some context before writing off people with money who try to help. 

 

Here is a tedious article that lays out the entire exchange and details every barking point of the internet and even the mainstream media that jumped on the wave of misinformation. I was so disappointed to see NYTimes reporting misinformation and building on pure speculation and opinion rather than fact. 

 

https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-full-story-behind-Elon-Musks-involvement-with-the-Thai-cave-rescue-effort

 

Some key points from the article:

 

  • The former Thai provincial governor is described inaccurately as “rescue chief” and was not an expert on the situation. That would be Dick Stanton, who co-led the dive rescue team and this is where Elon got his feedback about how to help and if he could help.

 

  • About the donations to GOP -
  • "Those donations were small (< $40,000) in relative terms.
  • "He gives often and in moderate amounts to both sides.
  • "These amounts are dwarfed by his donations to issue-based causes (like his recent $6m give to a climate change fund).
  • "None of this has ever been a secret and isn’t something he’s been uncomfortable discussing.
  • "Giving token amounts to various political groups is the cost of doing business. This often includes giving to those you disagree with ideologically."

 

  • The rescue pod is continuing to be developed in various ways to help future rescue projects.

 

The reactionary comment about Unsworth was the result of the harmful and misinformed mob mentality finally reaching a breaking point for Elon when Unsworth publicly condemned and ridiculed Musk's efforts to help. Elon's response was the response of a pissed off human being who had been trying to help and was being unfairly condemned from the start. He's apologized for his reaction, but come on... I mean, this is a creative human watching a barrage of harsh condemnation of his efforts by uninformed people and then watching the mainstream media like NYTimes and BBC jumping on it with "thoughtful" articles that were merely opinion pieces full of misinformation and then he sees an uninformed guy make a false claim in a national interview... after all of that... he snapped back.

 

If it took that long for his defensive ego to make a messy appearance, for fuck's sake, good on him. 

 

 

 

 

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Troy
On 7/17/2018 at 3:57 AM, Sam K said:

 

Buffett's better than most of his ilk, but he did disown a granddaughter (fairly cruelly, at that) because she appeared in a documentary talking about wealth inequality and the privilege that comes with being a Buffett.

 

This is yet another bite-sized internet nugget that gets turned into a mountain of misinformation. This grand-daughter appeared in a documentary as a representative of people "born rich," and interviewed about what that is like. She wasn't born a Buffett and was only briefly a part of the family. To speak in a documentary about being born rich when you have only barely been a part of the family was very misleading. Buffett only meant to point out this fact. She was representing an entire family she was not born into and was not a part of for very long and had very little contact with even when part of the family.

 

It reminds me of one of my own "family members" who goes around telling people she and I are cousins and then people exclaim to me that they didn't know we were related. Yes, what's the big deal, let her call us family, but there is this part of me that cringes because it's entirely untrue. I met her only a few years ago and she was briefly a stepdaughter of my biological cousin who was briefly married to her mother. She's actually not my cousin nor my family, but... she is, kinda? I mean, all she is doing is claiming we are cousins and she's perfectly lovely, but I feel compelled to clarify... I can't imagine if she participated in a documentary and spoke as a representative of my life and my actual family. I'd feel extremely compelled to clarify the context of her experiences. 

 

Buffett may have been dry and factual and maybe even harsh in his clarification, but it was hardly about her speaking ill of the rich. It was about her misrepresenting herself and speaking on behalf of a family she knows very little about. Buffett's response seems fair.

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Heidi

Getting the truth from the internet and news sources seems almost as complex as it is for Michael when accessing the Akashic Records. So much to sift through.

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Troy
18 minutes ago, Heidi said:

Getting the truth from the internet and news sources seems almost as complex as it is for Michael when accessing the Akashic Records. So much to sift through.

 

True, and maybe even I am being misinformed! One way that I try to avoid that is to look for the more tedious treatments of a situation with plenty of cross-references and cited sources rather than just a piece with a lot of opinion and speculation. It seems to help.

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Sam K
2 hours ago, Troy said:

 

This is yet another bite-sized internet nugget that gets turned into a mountain of misinformation. This grand-daughter appeared in a documentary as a representative of people "born rich," and interviewed about what that is like. She wasn't born a Buffett and was only briefly a part of the family. To speak in a documentary about being born rich when you have only barely been a part of the family was very misleading. Buffett only meant to point out this fact. She was representing an entire family she was not born into and was not a part of for very long and had very little contact with even when part of the family.

 

It reminds me of one of my own "family members" who goes around telling people she and I are cousins and then people exclaim to me that they didn't know we were related. Yes, what's the big deal, let her call us family, but there is this part of me that cringes because it's entirely untrue. I met her only a few years ago and she was briefly a stepdaughter of my biological cousin who was briefly married to her mother. She's actually not my cousin nor my family, but... she is, kinda? I mean, all she is doing is claiming we are cousins and she's perfectly lovely, but I feel compelled to clarify... I can't imagine if she participated in a documentary and spoke as a representative of my life and my actual family. I'd feel extremely compelled to clarify the context of her experiences. 

 

Buffett may have been dry and factual and maybe even harsh in his clarification, but it was hardly about her speaking ill of the rich. It was about her misrepresenting herself and speaking on behalf of a family she knows very little about. Buffett's response seems fair.

 

She was legally adopted by Peter Buffett and was part of the family from the time she was 4.  As far as I'm aware, her relationship to her father hasn't changed, legally or emotionally.  So to my mind, yeah, she has a right to call herself a Buffett.  And before the documentary, Warren treated her like any other part of the family.  That's what makes his reaction cruel, despite its matter-of-fact wording.

 

I'm not saying he didn't have a right to be angry, especially since she herself admits that some of what she said came off more critical of her grandfather than she intended, but such a drastic reaction to her simply speaking honestly about her life experience is unjustified, in my opinion.

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Stickyflames
3 hours ago, Troy said:

I'm finally catching up on the whole condemnation of Elon Musk. The "internet" is so willing to destroy others without using any conscience or facts. Sometimes that mob mentality is helpful for something like the racist white people calling the police on innocent people of color. But this mob mentality is also terrifyingly voracious and mindless and dangerous. How the mob mentality went after Elon Musk is an example of misinformation and our petty (but mostly justified) addiction to villainizing people with money. I think we need to step back a bit and get some context before writing off people with money who try to help. 

 

Here is a tedious article that lays out the entire exchange and details every barking point of the internet and even the mainstream media that jumped on the wave of misinformation. I was so disappointed to see NYTimes reporting misinformation and building on pure speculation and opinion rather than fact. 

 

https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-full-story-behind-Elon-Musks-involvement-with-the-Thai-cave-rescue-effort

 

Some key points from the article:

 

  • The former Thai provincial governor is described inaccurately as “rescue chief” and was not an expert on the situation. That would be Dick Stanton, who co-led the dive rescue team and this is where Elon got his feedback about how to help and if he could help.

 

  • About the donations to GOP -
  • "Those donations were small (< $40,000) in relative terms.
  • "He gives often and in moderate amounts to both sides.
  • "These amounts are dwarfed by his donations to issue-based causes (like his recent $6m give to a climate change fund).
  • "None of this has ever been a secret and isn’t something he’s been uncomfortable discussing.
  • "Giving token amounts to various political groups is the cost of doing business. This often includes giving to those you disagree with ideologically."

 

  • The rescue pod is continuing to be developed in various ways to help future rescue projects.

 

The reactionary comment about Unsworth was the result of the harmful and misinformed mob mentality finally reaching a breaking point for Elon when Unsworth publicly condemned and ridiculed Musk's efforts to help. Elon's response was the response of a pissed off human being who had been trying to help and was being unfairly condemned from the start. He's apologized for his reaction, but come on... I mean, this is a creative human watching a barrage of harsh condemnation of his efforts by uninformed people and then watching the mainstream media like NYTimes and BBC jumping on it with "thoughtful" articles that were merely opinion pieces full of misinformation and then he sees an uninformed guy make a false claim in a national interview... after all of that... he snapped back.

 

If it took that long for his defensive ego to make a messy appearance, for fuck's sake, good on him. 

 

 

 

 

Yep. I kept viewing this as “ why is the world tearing a part someone who tried to help?”. It seemed like another “ fuck the wealthy” barrage, “ they think they know anything 😡”.  

Publically condemning someone as a pedofile with nothing to back that up is incredibly childish and possibly extremely harmful for that particiular rescuer and is pretty beyond defending though.

The whole thing seemed absurd. Mob mentality movements of most kinds just give people permission to be condemning with zero consequences. 

 

Edited by Stickyflames
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Troy
4 hours ago, Stickyflames said:

Publically condemning someone as a pedofile with nothing to back that up is incredibly childish and possibly extremely harmful for that particiular rescuer and is pretty beyond defending though.

I agree, but I also feel for someone trying to pull together resources to help save lives while the internet is attacking relentlessly in mobs with false information and speculations. Even the best of us lash out in childish ways when hurting. He fucked himself with that single line because that's what everyone is going to cling to as justification for further diminishing his efforts. Rich people aren't supposed to have feelings, but some actually do.

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Troy
4 hours ago, Sam K said:

 

She was legally adopted by Peter Buffett and was part of the family from the time she was 4.  As far as I'm aware, her relationship to her father hasn't changed, legally or emotionally.  So to my mind, yeah, she has a right to call herself a Buffett.  And before the documentary, Warren treated her like any other part of the family.  That's what makes his reaction cruel, despite its matter-of-fact wording.

 

I'm not saying he didn't have a right to be angry, especially since she herself admits that some of what she said came off more critical of her grandfather than she intended, but such a drastic reaction to her simply speaking honestly about her life experience is unjustified, in my opinion.

 

I can see both sides. I think Buffett's statements were meant to be just factual in response to her statements that were anecdotal. It's unfortunate that it escalated into such a theatrical drama played out on the internet. I see it as yet another example of how money, fame, happiness, etc. NOTHING frees you from being a plain ol' human.

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Stickyflames
42 minutes ago, Troy said:

I agree, but I also feel for someone trying to pull together resources to help save lives while the internet is attacking relentlessly in mobs with false information and speculations. Even the best of us lash out in childish ways when hurting. He fucked himself with that single line because that's what everyone is going to cling to as justification for further diminishing his efforts. Rich people aren't supposed to have feelings, but some actually do.

Yeah, I am not a fan of condemning rich or famous people. I still have a habit of the gossip websites and even watching the hot topics on the view just to see what people are talking abouT. I will catch people around me saying the most disgusting things about famous or wealthy people, as if they have some how asked for it for being in that position. There is such a prejeduce against wealth, as if “ they are the cause of my problems”. I see them as people who I have no idea what they are contributing nor are they more or less responsible for contributing to this world than I am. 

The backlash against the pedo statement is fair. That can warrant some very violent consequences for the man if anyone was to believe it. It is beyond childish. It is like if I was on TLE and gave “ well meaning advice” to someone based on the context they provided in their blogpost...and then the entire community got after me saying what I just said was completely off base, unwarranted , uninvited and unwanted...and if my response was “ yeah well, you are a pedofile”...I mean....

Now this was responding to a crisis situation and not an internet forum, anyone trying to help is heroic. He was given very few details to work with in order to help. He and his team did the best they could with the information they had. People focused on his failure. All of that is true and everyone elses shit...but that was like trumpian level childishness.

 

” I uh....meant to say ....WOULDN’T.....why...WOULDN’T it be russia....of course....why that even needed to be explained is beyond me....fake news!”

Edited by Stickyflames
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Christian

Musk is revered as a genius by so many.   

It was really a matter of time before this happened on a large scale.  

 

The working conditions at his factories have been criticized recently as bad as amazon.  

 

the veil of ignorance is lifting over everything.  That means things are being exposed that in previous years would've be ignored. 

 

Also, the internet has no reaction filter.    In that regard, it seems very much like the lower astral.  Lots of raw emotion. 

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