Troy

U.S. Presidential Election Comfort and Anxiety Thread

324 posts in this topic

In Britain there was no hate "crime wave" Jana.  It was reported and spun that way, but I don't believe there was one.  There were some horrendous racist incidents, but I don't believe most of the other things in the newspapers, especially not in Britain- our press is one of the worst in the world.  The media is a large and dirty part of all this as I'm sure you've seen in the unconditional support of Clinton in the USA, Clinton the saint, who in reality- would have maintained the neoliberal order.  I'm gunna repeat that because if anyone has any evidence to the contrary I would sincerely like to read it.  She and Bill are the Davos class and they don't give a fuck.  Some of the worst things have happened under democrats so I don't believe a hammer is always the worst tool for the job.  If it's all you've got, it's something.  But the 'us' and 'them' is no good.

 

"pissed off at them for screwing me over" I'm sure you're angry and I can understand lots of people are angry but after a point you've really got to ask what good that does anyone.  Quite often it blinds you to the fact that for lots of people it's not about solving a problem but sending a message.  I'm very aware of my place as not being American and being an outsider but there's so many parallels here that it is like deja vu.  Obviously I'm not trying to say you've now got a wonderful statesman like Commander in Chief, it goes without saying that Trump is a "cartoon character", but how long do you actually think he's going to stick around working for the people?  Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.  I got called all sorts of crap after the Brexit result because I voted Leave- but my vote had nothing to do with Farage or any of the mainstream campaigns- it was #Lexit it was a Left/Socialist stance.  The demagogs claim the victory but it isn't theirs.  These subtleties will bear fruit.  Don't underestimate your fellow citizens or be dismissive of them.  They did that in Britain, but we're not listening now, just like we didn't buy their propaganda before.  You can frame and cook and manipulate the facts and circumstances any way you like and I'm well aware I'm doing that, but we create our own reality so I'd much rather frame this as being the start of something revolutionary to inspire mobilisation.  And more than that- I do believe that to be the case.  It finally feels like the world is changing, you've finally got rid of the Clinton/Bush monster, that in itself is tremendous.  Yes because people aren't stupid, the far-right have seen their chance and are also going to mobilise, but now is the time- and if people get out there, it's all to play for.  You can't have systemic change without some form of upheaval.

 

Also- I thrive on chaos so I feel my pre-occupation is with it and the potential it provides.  It takes me more time to appreciate that many people are not like this and crave stability.  But stability in the form of a house of cards- is a lie.  As a European, it cannot be understated the danger amplified by the US in the Middle East and with Russia.  At least with Trump you have the potential for de-escalation.  As an outsider, as a non-American, this election effects everyone on the planet.  I'd love to hear some parallels, some predictions now that the ether is a little clearer, now that we've taken a radical trunk.

Edited by Will

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I live here (UK) for nearly 2 decades, and I am an immigrant, with Eastern European accent and all. I'm not an American. If you don't believe newspapers, TV, actual footage, etc. regarding the anti-immigrant aggression, then ask the actual immigrants, if it is of interest to you. There was a man killed. No, it's not clear if it was a hate crime, but people who live in his neighbourhood and experience constant anti-immigrant slurs might be left living in fear for their lives from it. Are you sure you can even imagine this? You think it's just made up? Do you know how it feels, to be made unwelcome in your home? And sometimes it's not even bad intent, like I am sure you don't have, but do you know how many times I was asked if I am going to go "back home"? I thought - "what are you talking about? I own a house here, with a garden I have cared for for years, my children lived here for their whole lives, I have worked for the same company for 15 years and saw it being founded - literally my whole life is here, I have paid far more taxes than an average Brexiteer in my life (yet cannot vote into parliament, unless I chose to pay some stupid amount of money and subject myself to a ridiculous test), my Essence doubtless had many lives on this island - and in your eyes this is not my home?" I said "this is my home" and got a funny look. Things we take for granted, hey? Things we marginalise.

 

How I see someone's decision is my choice. No, I am not angry anymore about Brexit (that would be pretty exhausting) - although if I was, that would be my business. But we are still screwed over from it, all of us, and I reserve the right to see it as a stupid decision. I have tried to find what actual benefit it might bring, and could not. Unless the aim is simply instability for the sake of instability. This and Brexit are certainly making massive strides towards it.

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First of all, I'm sorry that's been your experience Jana.

 

I know what it feels like to feel unwelcome in my own home, in my own country, that's been a major problem/theme in my life Jana- but for different reasons.

 

I'm not saying it was made up, I didn't know you lived here in the UK or that you're originally from Eastern Europe, many people on the forums are from the US.  I don't believe it was a crime wave but our perspectives are completely different- I'm not victim to racist hate crimes.  I'm not trying to downplay the situation or be disrespectful of what's going on.  You see Brexit as a stupid decision, but we have vastly different perspectives and I don't suffer the things you talk about so I can't even begin to understand what it feels like for you Jana.

 

I live in Huddersfield, it's a poor Northern textile town and it's very well racially integrated, there are people from all over the world and people have been settling for generations.  The very idea of someone being 'a native' to England is ridiculous, but as we know racism isn't rational or logical, but it is symptomatic.  Everywhere has its problems and England has its fare share of racists and biggots that make life unlivable for some people. I think the delusion we suffer in England is that we are post most problems, post racism, post sexism, post imperial all these things when we definitely are not.  I'm sorry for the things you talk about, sincerely, truly I am, I can't speak for, or identify with people who do things like that, for racist behaviour, I can only speak against it and to tell you that you're as much a part of the social fabric of this country as I or anyone else is and that's essential to me.  I can only imagine that this discrimination feels like having your heart ripped out or at the least being questioned at a core that makes no sense at all.  It's shameful, it's disgraceful, but it's things like that that disconnect me from England, that disconnect us all.  I've never identified as being English or British.  If people ask when I'm in other countries I might identify with being from Yorkshire- my region, but that's it.  Or from the North, because it's different from the South.

 

I am not a Brexiteer.  I would point to the SWP- Socialist Workers Party, because their perspective is closest to my own.  They stood with #Lexit, ie Left Exit the EU, they are fundamentally pro-immigration, anti-racist, workers rights and though I'm not a member- I handed out their newspaper in the Jungle in Calais because that's the kind of thing I wanted refugees to be reading- ie not the mainstream Murdoch British press- which is racist poison for the mind.  If Corbyn would have done what he should have- taken Labour on the Leave/#Lexit campaign then we would have had a non-racist narrative that would have made a massive difference.  Corbyn is a life long anti-EU campaigner, but he messed up, he tried to appease the Blairites and the PLP and they threw him under the bus for it.  So instead- we're left with only the fashist Farage cover of a book that's got a completely different narrative.

 

For me the last year has been focussed on refugees and working towards trying to help in the refugee crisis.  For me, the EU is responsible for thousands drowning in the Aegean and I see the greatest evil as the EU.  What its done to Greece, Ireland, Italy, Spain, what's coming to France.  This is the same lens I see the US Elections with.  The problems go right up to the top, they start at the top.  But I have the luxury of not suffering what you've suffered Jana and the lottery of being born in a country that pretends to be many things.  Coming from Eastern Europe originally I would guess you find it difficult to believe the EU to be as negative as I do.  Also- the cost of trying to see the bigger picture is to overlook the details and reality of what you talk about, so I recognise that.  The roots of Brexit go deep; deep into poverty, economics, sovereignty, and the notion of being European, which the British don't feel they are as a collective.  The immigration debate was a Brexit focus but it's not mine, I'm for open borders.

 

There's things I didn't see- my friend is suffering depression, she's an MA student from Italy, she's been living here 7 years and might not be able to remain in the UK if policies change.  I didn't vote for that, but that's what happened.  I voted for anti-racist reasons, but racism has happened. I voted against racism, pro immigration, pro workers rights, against the EU, and I don't regret what I voted for- but that's a narrative that's virtually unheard in England and the press and political establishment are responsible for that- they're responsible for the death of Jo Cox.  To me this isn't ambiguous.  They drove up hatred and opened pandoras box.

 

I hope things become easier for you living here Jana for all people who are here who are suffering and I hope that this ugliness fades quickly and I believe it will.  But I do feel in my heart that it's the cost of the hard way, of the steeper hill that will get us there faster but with more pain and suffering, given the reality of the hard way- I will take that path, but there are different consequences for different people.

Edited by Will

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That actually made me tear up. Thank you for your kind words. Don't get me wrong, I am economically doing fine, and I personally have suffered nothing worse than this repeated questioning, which was probably meant simply as a way to make conversation. But it gets tiring. I'm definitely a big girl and can live with it. In fact I loved and still do love living here, because I actually thought then and even do now that people here are kind, inclusive, and appreciate each other. Well vast majority, in my experience. I actually can't stop tearing up. So seeing what was happening after and in connection with Brexit, was shattering my view of that world a little. I know it gets hyped up, but, someone was killed, others were bothered and threatened, and made feel very unwelcome. It's not okay, and the problem is, when a leader type figure normalises hate and persecution, it gets kind of legitimised. The perpetrators felt enabled, allowed to do this ("we voted leave, so leave now"). When a member of our government suggested that companies should list their foreign workers (which includes me, because I refuse to be forced to have to buy my citizenship), it felt nasty. I wanted to leave the country. Both Brexit and Trump's election made people feel vulnerable, afraid, unwelcome.

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I work with a lot of people who are from the EU, and I have heard several of them talk about cases where people have taunted them with phrases like "We voted Brexit, pack your bags and F*** off!" "what are you still doing here?" "When are you leaving? We voted Brexit!" and all that crap. Its a horrible time to be an EU citizen in the UK.

 

This isnt just a side effect of the result for these people. This is exactly what they voted "Leave" for. Not all of them, but a certain subgroup of them.

Edited by Mike Cleverly
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I didn't truly believe that Trump was going to win and I am quite taken aback that I'm in this parallel. The biggest problem is that his win is going to inspire the rest of the world in a negative way. Right-wing parties in Europe have been getting more popular for some time and people have been becoming more exclusive and anti-immigration, etc. The results of this US election are just going to convince these types of individuals that their way is the ''right'' one. They are cheering Trump as a ''hero'' who is finally going to cast away the old system in a good way. If this trend continues, the EU  may just fall apart in the future.

 

I was born and live in an Eastern European country and people whom I know say that they  face discrimination from those in the other European countries as if they are inferior.

 

Besides that I am also young and inexperienced. I haven't even begun building my life, I do not have stability and now I'm afraid that creating a life for myself is going to be even harder than I thought. However, I also have to remind myself that one of my grandfathers was forced to leave home at the age of 14 (his father cast him out) and work heavy physical labour so that he could support himself and finish his education; fight in WW2 against the nazis and basically live through most of the crap that was happening in the previous century. And despite all of that, he made it through. So I should find the strength to do it too. Unfortunately, nowadays the technology and weapons are far more advanced and the consequences can be more disastrous if a war were to occur (in the worst scenario) as a result of the major divison.

 

Oh well...unless my Essence decides to reincarnate in the past in its next lifetime, my next Personality will live in a resource-based economy. Though I wonder if *I* will be able to at least get a glimpse of it in this life.

 

Hang in there, everyone!

Edited by Marigold
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As the shock of this election begins to slowly turn into acceptance that this is the reality we're in, I've begun to try to understand what actually got us here. For anyone else interested in high-level analysis (I'm looking at you Scholars and Scholar-casts), I highly recommend the following articles. Each provides a different perspective, but you can find ideas that repeat across them all, which for me tends to signal a greater truth. It's also interesting to note that all of these were written BEFORE Trump was elected, leading me to believe that this outcome shouldn't have been that much of a surprise, which ironically makes it even more shocking. 

 

How Half Of America Lost Its F**king Mind

 

History tells us what may happen next with Brexit & Trump

 

Democracies end when they are too democratic. And right now, America is a breeding ground for tyranny. (This is a long read.)

 

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Hi, I'm new on this forum (still waiting for my profile), but I wanted to share that there is a petition being circulated online to request the members of the Electoral College to elect Hillary Clinton instead of Donald Trump since they make the ultimate decision and will not be voting until December.  Donald Trump is simply unqualified and is a danger to the world, whereas Hillary Clinton has the experience and vision we need to go forward.  This may be one way to DO SOMETHING as Michael suggests!

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ABOUT ALL THIS "PARALLEL" NONSENSE - it's not helpful to use this concept to explain where we are and how we got here as if something fantastically metaphysical and against our will happened overnight to spin us into some alternate reality that isn't ours, or that we are somehow assigned here by some higher force because we are needed. That's not how they work. Parallels are created from cumulative effects that lead to these shifts. Those cumulative effects build up and sometimes generate a parallel shift, or sometimes don't. But this is OUR parallel. OUR reality. We are here because there is something we contributed toward getting here and because there is something here that supports our evolution. Or we wouldn't be here. Parallels aren't punishments. And they aren't singularly generated. And they aren't "chosen" like one street over another. They are generated from collective momentum and "chosen" for very personal reasons. Michael has often explained that our personal choices aren't always connected to larger events. If you decide to go dancing and a madman decides to gun down everyone in the nightclub, you didn't choose to be gunned down! You chose to go dancing! If your choices have you in this parallel, it is probably NOT because your preferred Trump or Brexit or wished to be a fighting savior of a people. But a madman is here. His people are armed and dangerous. And all we wanted to do was dance. But now we have to deal with it because what *we* wanted from this parallel on a personal level is now hooked into the larger reality of this madman's existence because our existence is a shared experience. We do this every day. Some days are blissful and some days are terrifying, both because we share existence. The universe and parallel shifts don't separate us out by likes and dislikes, by love and hate, by fear and compassion. We are stuck with the fuckwads and morons. They are in every parallel. They just so happen to be getting louder because they are a scared shitless minority now. They know they are a dying minority. So they are going to ball up and make their body look as big and scary as possible before they begrudgingly evolve. That's not unique to this parallel. No parallel is exempt from the growing pains and transitions of a collective soul age. We aren't accidentally here. But as with every interruption and shock to our lives, it's not just about what happens to us, but mostly about what we do with what happens to us. Let's not wait for meaning to be handed to us for why we are here. Let's get to work on creating that meaning and then discover what might be here for us. If you are here to be needed, then so be it. If you are here because you were curious about apocalyptic scenarios, so be it. And if we came to dance, by fucking god I'm going to dance before the bullets start flying. 

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I don't often follow the material that Jose Stevens posts because so much of it is shamanistic, and I tend to resist that. But a link to his Message of Support was posted on Facebook this morning and I found it very interesting. Also interesting is the article Jose wrote in March about the candidates.

 

Message of Support from Jose and Lena Stevens

Election Madness

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3 minutes ago, Troy said:

But this is OUR parallel. OUR reality. 

 

This is true. Seth would say that this is the window of reality that we have chosen to focus our attention on right now.

 

I'm quite sure that we also exist in one or more parallels where Hillary won. But it doesn't help to say 'Why did I wake up here and not there?' There is a damn good reason that we're focusing our attention here and we're building our futures here. The world may depend on the choices we make and the actions we take in this reality.

 

And I'm with you, Troy. I'm going to dance.

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10 minutes ago, Troy said:

 And if we came to dance, by fucking god I'm going to dance ...

Thank you, Troy

Love, Diane

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@Janet versions of us are definitely in parallels where Hillary won and I don't think it as pretty as we'd like to think. Much worse than "here."

 

Liberals backlashing with expressions of terror and shock cannot compare to the violence that has been unleashed in those Parallels where the redneck racists didn't win. We think the gloating is bad here? It is. But it's softened by about 90% by their ability to gloat and be vindicated. The sick fucks.

 

Our parallel comes with its own short-term problems and with far reaching, but familiar, long-term problems that may or may not be reversed.  The Hillary parallels come with massively violent short-term problems and a complete replacement of any familiar problems by violently dismantling everything familiar in a backlash that we can't even imagine "here."

 

I'm sure there are parallels where things "all worked out," too, but... I don't think we should underestimate our power that we still have at this moment to make a difference.

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@Troy I can't speak for others but I don't think that this parallel has been forced upon me or anything like that. I realize that it is a result of cumulative effects and collective choices. The result of this divergence informs me of a lot of the choices made by other people and gives me a different perspective on exactly how things are right now. Or should I say that it adds to my viewpoint. I didn't expect everything to magically turn out great in the end but the sheer amount of ignorance being expressed in the world at the moment is even greater than I thought. 

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Michael has always said we are repeating the cycle of Rome falling. It's falling. And falling fast. 

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3 hours ago, Troy said:

Liberals backlashing with expressions of terror and shock cannot compare to the violence that has been unleashed in those Parallels where the redneck racists didn't win. We think the gloating is bad here? It is. But it's softened by about 90% by their ability to gloat and be vindicated. The sick fucks.

 

Our parallel comes with its own short-term problems and with far reaching, but familiar, long-term problems that may or may not be reversed.  The Hillary parallels come with massively violent short-term problems and a complete replacement of any familiar problems by violently dismantling everything familiar in a backlash that we can't even imagine "here."

 

I agree, I feared widespread violence if Hillary had won and I'm quite positive that it'd be far worse than the liberals' protests. We're the civilized ones.

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Never thought about the protests. That's true. I don't think either candidate is full of breakdown or breakthrough- that lies in only how WE react to them as representations.

 

But like Janet, I think it's healthy to assess and consider why we're here. That doesn't mean we NEED a purpose to exist here, but that we create a purpose to keep on going.

In October, the Ms stated we'd likely search for explanations for the behaviours around us, as if we couldn't find or create one we'd only contribute to the growing Self-Destruction.

I think it's the same here.

 

I can see how we might have been on a fast track to this parallel since around when the Ms said "Hillary will likely win, but there are yet a few radical variables."

Parallels are formed when your decisions continue to reinforce each other because they are coherent.

The same happens with collectives- we were all moving towards collective karmas it seems- that wouldn't be as highlighted for everyone had Hillary won.

 

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6 hours ago, Troy said:

ABOUT ALL THIS "PARALLEL" NONSENSE - it's not helpful to use this concept to explain where we are and how we got here as if something fantastically metaphysical and against our will happened overnight to spin us into some alternate reality that isn't ours, or that we are somehow assigned here by some higher force because we are needed. That's not how they work. Parallels are created from cumulative effects that lead to these shifts. Those cumulative effects build up and sometimes generate a parallel shift, or sometimes don't. But this is OUR parallel. OUR reality. We are here because there is something we contributed toward getting here and because there is something here that supports our evolution. Or we wouldn't be here. Parallels aren't punishments. And they aren't singularly generated. And they aren't "chosen" like one street over another. They are generated from collective momentum and "chosen" for very personal reasons. Michael has often explained that our personal choices aren't always connected to larger events. If you decide to go dancing and a madman decides to gun down everyone in the nightclub, you didn't choose to be gunned down! You chose to go dancing! If your choices have you in this parallel, it is probably NOT because your preferred Trump or Brexit or wished to be a fighting savior of a people. But a madman is here. His people are armed and dangerous. And all we wanted to do was dance. But now we have to deal with it because what *we* wanted from this parallel on a personal level is now hooked into the larger reality of this madman's existence because our existence is a shared experience. We do this every day. Some days are blissful and some days are terrifying, both because we share existence. The universe and parallel shifts don't separate us out by likes and dislikes, by love and hate, by fear and compassion. We are stuck with the fuckwads and morons. They are in every parallel. They just so happen to be getting louder because they are a scared shitless minority now. They know they are a dying minority. So they are going to ball up and make their body look as big and scary as possible before they begrudgingly evolve. That's not unique to this parallel. No parallel is exempt from the growing pains and transitions of a collective soul age. We aren't accidentally here. But as with every interruption and shock to our lives, it's not just about what happens to us, but mostly about what we do with what happens to us. Let's not wait for meaning to be handed to us for why we are here. Let's get to work on creating that meaning and then discover what might be here for us. If you are here to be needed, then so be it. If you are here because you were curious about apocalyptic scenarios, so be it. And if we came to dance, by fucking god I'm going to dance before the bullets start flying. 

 

Thank you, Troy.  I'm sick of  hearing about parallels as defined by people who don't understand what a parallel is.

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6 hours ago, Troy said:

We are stuck with the fuckwads and morons. They are in every parallel. They just so happen to be getting louder because they are a scared shitless minority now. They know they are a dying minority. So they are going to ball up and make their body look as big and scary as possible before they begrudgingly evolve. That's not unique to this parallel.

 

 

exactly.  They are. It is. We are not them. We do not share their vision, but, unfortunately we share the earth with its resources, and the allocation of its resources. Fuckwads allright. I keep hoping someone will just bomb Trump Tower, or kill Trump. I can dream. 

 

6 hours ago, Troy said:

We aren't accidentally here. But as with every interruption and shock to our lives, it's not just about what happens to us, but mostly about what we do with what happens to us. Let's not wait for meaning to be handed to us for why we are here. Let's get to work on creating that meaning and then discover what might be here for us. If you are here to be needed, then so be it. If you are here because you were curious about apocalyptic scenarios, so be it. And if we came to dance, by fucking god I'm going to dance before the bullets start flying. 

 

 

We create our own meaning, we are just as vociferous and passionate living by our own meaning as we can be by dying by it. I frankly see this as a death dance, but hey while the going is good, which will probably be short term and not long enough, I am going to define this time by my own meaning , and share and enjoy with who wants to enjoy with me. Fuck them (Trump voters, oxygen thieves). Fuck them fuck them fuck them.

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@AnnaD  "Oxygen thieves" - love it!  

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@Matt

 

My intuition, though it could be wrong, is telling me that something is culminating.

Though if I had to put a location on it- I'd say it might not be within NA, perhaps in Asia?

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I am not a Doomsday person at all. In fact, I am (if I must say so myself) one of the least paranoid people I know. It may be fro having a Realist attitude: People rarely surprise me when we're idiots. I love conspiracy stuff, but tend to put little stock in it.

 

But yes, I have a strong intuitive sense that this is the beginning of a culmination.

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9 hours ago, Troy said:

@Janet versions of us are definitely in parallels where Hillary won and I don't think it as pretty as we'd like to think. Much worse than "here."

 

Liberals backlashing with expressions of terror and shock cannot compare to the violence that has been unleashed in those Parallels where the redneck racists didn't win. We think the gloating is bad here? It is. But it's softened by about 90% by their ability to gloat and be vindicated. The sick fucks.

 

Our parallel comes with its own short-term problems and with far reaching, but familiar, long-term problems that may or may not be reversed.  The Hillary parallels come with massively violent short-term problems and a complete replacement of any familiar problems by violently dismantling everything familiar in a backlash that we can't even imagine "here."

 

I'm sure there are parallels where things "all worked out," too, but... I don't think we should underestimate our power that we still have at this moment to make a difference.

 

@Troy  Interestingly, I have been quite vocal about wanting the slower, less painful, less harmful to the many, evolutionary path which I saw as coming about through Hillary. I saw a Trump Presidency or Bernie Presidency as being more about revolution. Are you saying that the reverse is true? Are you saying that the Hillary path in the other Parallels (or another Parallel) actually turned out to be more painful for the many and has turned into an "overthrow" revolution of sorts? If that is the case me being in this Parallel, now, is what I said I wanted and this is the more evolutionary path. Who would've thought?  :SURLEQ:

 

 

Edited by Maureen
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32 minutes ago, j.perez9 said:

There is also more to the story.  It has to do with good and evil.  The white light of the Tao and evil which is black.  That is another subject no Michael channel has talked about.  This might be something else Troy could channel about.  Anyway since the fall of man evil has been a part of the planet.  And we have reached a point were that evil is finally going away.  One reason it is called end times is because it is the end of evil on the planet.  It has been channeled that evil had reached a point were it was in control of our institutions and out in the open.  It no longer had anywhere to go or hide.  It reached its final point.  Donald Trump has conquered the evil controlling Americas institutions.    Evil currently controls the institutions of many countries.  One channel stated that evil had been in the low 30s percentage wise on our planet.  It is now in the low 20s.  

 

Sorry that you have to hear it this way "new guy" but that's because none of that exists.

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