Jump to content
Troy

U.S. Presidential Election Comfort and Anxiety Thread

Recommended Posts

Joe
On 11/9/2016 at 7:08 PM, NickG said:

My favorite series of all time!!! I think this is from the book but it is a nice reminder.

06BB97CE-04C3-4CCF-9022-9EFD5E0BA378-3662-000002C363B81551_tmp.png

 

Cool quote Nick. Read the trilogy book back in high school. Plus the quote was written by J.R.R Tolkien, another Oldie Double Sagey.

Edited by Joe
  • LIKE/LOVE 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ckaricai
10 hours ago, Troy said:

PERSPECTIVES FROM THOSE AFFECTED AND TARGETED - If we are the ones being targeted and are scared for our lives, we need to stop vilifying and mocking those in positions of privilege who are reaching out.  It's true that most of the suggestions are not helpful and sometimes even hurtful, but let's not conflate well-meaning perspectives with hate or intentional harm. In this community, most of the insights from positions of privilege do have seeds of truth in them, even if they don't help us. But those seeds of truth are important enough that someone needs to protect and nurture them. They are seeds of truth that are moot right now, but our allies are trying to remind us that they have our back by protecting these until we get through this. It's true that "everything will be ok," and that there are higher patterns and perspectives here, and that "something good will come of this," etc. etc. Let those in positions of privilege do their job of protecting these higher perspectives and truths. We want those truths to be there waiting for us when we get through to the other side of this horror show.

 

And thank you to all of you contributing your love and kindness in such a difficult time. This is an ethical and psychological and cultural 9/11, launched on 11/9. We are, literally, under attack by our fellow Americans who have been emboldened to stand as terrorists against those they decided are to blame for their lack of self-worth. Every bit of support and kindness counts now. Thank you for bringing that support, kindness and solidarity here for us to tap into so we can deal with our more immediate threats more confidently.

 

I had a few moments of frustration the other day over the safety pin idea. I really don't trust it, but after a few hours of arguing about it with various people both online and in person, I realized that the symbol is more for the people who want to be allies than for targeted groups and I should just leave it be and let them do whatever they need to do to stir up feelings of solidarity and concern, and maybe I shouldn't be getting in the way. In that moment, I literally thought "why am I arguing about this?" So I'm going to try really hard to be more accepting of their good intentions without becoming frustrated by the methods I think suck to the point where I want to disengage forever. So see there's me attempting to work my goal of acceptance. So, thank you for the reminder. 

 

Tho, I gotta say, I'd much rather be on a beautiful beach on a warm day where a hot cabana guy in really tight shorts serves me mai tais while another one fans me with a giant palm leaf. I'm just gonna keep that image in my pocket for a while. 

 

 

 

 

  • LIKE/LOVE 12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Leela Corman

@ckaricai, I have thoughts about the safety pins. Here's something I posted on a friend's thread. It's a little sarcastic, because I was responding to a man claiming that people should just be able to tell by looking at his face that they're safe with him. So please know that any hint of sarcasm is not directed at you or at this forum. I edited out the more salty stuff :)

 

------

"Professional illustrator here. Symbols are extremely important. That's why my grandparents were forced to wear yellow stars back home in Europe during the war. You know, before they were driven into hiding and starvation and exposure while they ran for their lives, and barely survived. I teach vulnerable young people of all ethnic and religious backgrounds, and am a Jewish woman. I live and work in a small Southern college town that is a nice friendly place, but I know there are Klan towns nearby. I am frightened for my life and my family's. Our actual lives. It's not abstract. If I as a white person feel this way, imagining how my black, brown, Muslim, queer etc. neighbors and students and colleagues feel is driving me over the edge with anxiety. I NEED some way to tell them fast and without words that I am right there for them. My actions will of course do that too, but there may be a moment in a crowd, or in a coffeeshop, etc., where that quiet non-verbal communication makes the difference. And, though I'm not first on the list, I'm two kinds of targets myself - woman, Jew. I need to see it, too. I too would like to see that nonverbal sign. Do my feelings of safety matter, as a jew, as a woman? I don't want an ally cookie. I want allies.

 

 

Don't assume that people will simply be able to read your intentions and feel safe around you. This situation is having the intended terrible effect that things like this always do - people are becoming suspicious of their neighbors. I know I'm looking at certain types of white people sideways. And since I am also a white person, I'm sure my aforementioned neighbors and colleagues are looking at me with the same question: Did you vote for this? Do you believe in these terrible things? Do you want me dead?

Also I'm an old punk. So pin that shit."

  • LIKE/LOVE 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ckaricai

@Leela Corman You are right, symbols can be powerful, and if the safety pin resonates with people I will leave it be. There's no way for me to know if every person who wears it is wearing it passively or actively, so I won't fret over it. 

  • LIKE/LOVE 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Leela Corman

@ckaricai all the perspectives on it are valid. Maybe it resonates with me because of what I do for a living, I don't know. 

  • LIKE/LOVE 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ckaricai
4 minutes ago, Leela Corman said:

@ckaricai all the perspectives on it are valid. Maybe it resonates with me because of what I do for a living, I don't know. 

Well, it's intention is positive. Easy enough to figure out it's appeal. It could very well be that my experiences have made me jaded about lots of things and it might do me well to make more of an effort to find something worthwhile in people and situations I'd be inclined to mistrust. 

  • LIKE/LOVE 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DanielaS

Some good news!

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/11/14/planned_parenthood_and_aclu_see_spike_in_supporters_after_election.html

 

"As Americans grapple with the anticipated effects of Donald Trump’s impending presidency, some are taking action with their wallets. Reuters reports that the Planned Parenthood Federation of America has seen a spike in donations since Election Day, with nearly 80,000 new gifts."

 

And

 

The ACLU reported on Twitter on Monday that in the week since the election, it’s seen “the greatest outpouring of support” in its history, “greater than the days after 9/11.”

 

 
  • LIKE/LOVE 16

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DianeHB

Someone from Pantsuit Nation posted this, and it gives me a great deal of hope. We need strong leaders on our side in times like this. 

 

Quote

My friend's wife campaigned for Obama and for Hillary. She joined a call with him today and he shared a few excerpts:
- Your President feels your pain. 
- Surprising losses are worse than the ones you see coming. 
- Progress doesn't always follow a straight line. 
- I'm giving you a whole week and a half to get over this. But come Thanksgiving, it's time to stop moping and get organizing - something I know a little about. 
- I'm constrained in what I can do until I'm a private citizen.
- But come February (maybe a little later after a vacation), Michelle and I will be right there with you.
- In the meantime, stay involved locally. 
- I'm still fired up and I'm still ready to go.

 

  • LIKE/LOVE 23

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cong
3 minutes ago, DianeHB said:

Someone from Pantsuit Nation posted this, and it gives me a great deal of hope. We need strong leaders on our side in times like this. 

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing this Diane! I can surely feel the warmth from the Priest through these quotes:)

  • LIKE/LOVE 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Evelin

Troy and all, sorry if I said anything offensive without realizing it. I spoke my mind in the context of trying to understand what drove so many to vote as they did. But now when -- in mere days! -- people are actually attacking others on streets... I do not find this an OK expression of whatever feelings they have, and I don't even want to try to understand that.

 

For some weird reason, when I think about the safety pin, I can't stop imagining a moment where the entire population (of your country, of this planet) is wearing one and standing in line, facing the armed forces of a police state  (whichever state) -- and that's powerful. When many people do the same small thing, and keep doing it, that can be more powerful than one powerful person encouraging several horrible things at the same time. Could be my Singing Revolution teenhood talking.

 

On a less optimistic note, my Soviet Union childhood just made me re-read this:
http://www2.nybooks.com/daily/s3/nov/10/trump-election-autocracy-rules-for-survival.html

  • LIKE/LOVE 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Troy

@ckaricaiand @Leela Corman I totally see both perspectives here, and I love that both make perfect sense, but I do find myself leaning toward Cary's on this one because it is too easily exploited and hacked and it's yet another passive trend to pacify White fragility. BUT... I do love that it will bring some comfort to the people wearing it because it feels like they are doing something. That is a statement in itself. I can't help but think it's probably going to be moot if ever we are in a situation where that symbol would matter. We would already be making it clear we are safe. But you never know. Leela makes a good point about its potential for those sudden surprises, too. 

 

I think people should be wearing FUCK TRUMP badges or something that clearly states your opposition to the tyrannical orangutan. It would be much more difficult for Trump supporters to wear something like that all the time and try to explain it.

  • LIKE/LOVE 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Leela Corman

@Troy I so understand everything you're saying. Before I get into that, I need to also tell you that everything you wrote in your longer post yesterday on this thread resonated deeply with me. I haven't had much energy to say stuff like that, I am really fucking scared and drained. But I want you to know that, and I thank you.

 

So, I would also wear a Fuck Trump pin, but the point of the safety pin is that it's pictorial, not verbal; in situations where people might not feel safe voicing opinions verbally, pictorial symbols can help. I think also of the fish, the sign in ancient Rome that someone was a Christian. Whether or not that is an actual thing that happened, I don't know, because I'm not Christian by background. Believe it or not, my main knowledge of that comes from Philip K. Dick. How appropriate in these times, actually. Anyway. If I lived in NYC still, I'd feel fine wearing a Fuck Trump pin. But I live in this place where that might not be a great idea. I don't want my face stomped in. I'm no good to people that way. And perhaps I'd be cool with it if I didn't have a small child whose safety, in every way, I am fucked up over right now. She is half Jewish, she is female in a country whose president elect is a sexual predator, where boys are already grabbing girl's crotches and telling them "the new president does it, so I can too".

And that brings me to my other point here - the pin isn't only for white people. If you are a man, I want to see that you will not hurt me and my daughter. If you are a Christian, I want to know that you aren't going to sneer at me and tell me I'll be first in line for the ovens (this happened to a Jewish guy in NYC two days ago - in NEW YORK! At a Starbucks! The guy wasn't even visibly Jewish except for his frizzy hair!). Basically, I am white and so I am a few ticks down the list of people in danger, and being white, I have certain responsibilities and a lot of privilege. But you know, this election has made everyone who isn't male, white, straight, Christian or Christian background, and able-bodied, terrified. And it occurs to me that when they're done with the rest of us, they'll also come for the generally freaky. Like if you just look like you didn't vote for their guy. So that's all the straight white guys I hang with, as well as many others; every punk feminist longhair love of mine. My husband, my best friends.

You guys I'm breaking. All I can think about is that another holocaust is coming. I am freaking the fuck out. I don't usually do that. I am so scared. All I can see in my mind is my family on the run during WW2, rape camps and mass graves in the former Yugoslavia, all the places that thought they were the height of civilization descending into genocidal insanity. Because we learn nothing. Fuck.

  • LIKE/LOVE 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Paulyboy
On November 13, 2016 at 7:18 PM, Erin said:

I'm not an alarmist type at all.  In fact, I rejected any notion that Trump could possibly be elected.   Now that he has, I feel I have no place here.  We have contacts in 2, maybe 3 other countries that would be willing to help us leave.  My heart says leave.   I've been through a lot of personal sorrow and I have a toddler I must protect.  Besides, I've wanted to leave since my early 20s.  This country is far too chaotic for me.  I know there is no "perfect" place to go, but I have to try.

 

The most heartbreaking thing is my family.  They voted for Trump.  Leaving, would mean being apart from my father whom I love unconditionally.   He's providing us with so much help right now in the aftermath of the aforementioned personal tragedies.   The fallout would shake our relationship to the core. 

 

But I am a grown adult with a family and we are getting passports before the end of the month.   Leaving makes me feel like a coward, but I've been fighting my own battles for 25 years and just do not have the constitution for it.  Most of my friends are the "stay and fight" type, heavily involved in, and employed by large, pro-minority organizations.  I admire their grit.  

 

But that simply isn't me.  

 

 

 

One other thing I wanted to mention- the large amounts of deaths this year.  Not just celebrities- I've lost two close family members unexpectedly and two beloved cats.  Friends have lost so many this year as well...it's not just me.   This sounds fringe/whackadoodle, but I can't help but wonder if a lot of souls are reincarnating right now to be a part of this scenario.  Has anyone else felt this, or am I crazy?  

 

YOU CANNOT UN-EXIST - Death may come to be a prominent issue for many of our students to process in these days and months ahead. We will talk more about this in our live chats with you, but it can be helpful to remember that death is not meant to eclipse a life. It is a part of life. There is little difference between life and death for either the Personality or Essence except in that whichever one is “in” tends to get the priority of importance. When you are “dead” it is exciting to process a life and plan a dive back into life. When you are alive, it is exciting to consider your immortality and your extra-dimensional selves. Death and Life are two sides of EXISTENCE. You exist. You cannot un-exist. No one you know can un-exist. You will continue to love, and find even more ways and whys to love. Letting people live is to let them exist, and letting people die is to let them exist. This understanding will not replace grief, but it can be a part of the healing that returns you to focus on life when death visits around you

 

Hi Erin. I remembered this snippet from the January 2016 Energy Report. It is often useful to look back through the previous reports to cross reference and validate if things seemed accurate.

 

 

Paul

 

btw, sooooooooo much more to say on this topic, but work calls. Hugs!

 

Edited by Paulyboy
Fixing link
  • LIKE/LOVE 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AnnH

This is a great column that sums up a lot of my feelings about the election.

 

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/217831/what-to-do-about-trump

 

A couple of pull-quotes:

Quote

The first, and most obvious, is this: Treat every poisoned word as a promise. When a bigoted blusterer tells you he intends to force members of a religious minority to register with the authorities—much like those friends and family of Siegfried’s who stayed behind were forced to do before their horizon grew darker—believe him. Don’t try to be clever. Don’t lean on political intricacies or legislative minutia or historical precedents for comfort. Don’t write it off as propaganda, or explain it away as just an empty proclamation meant simply to pave the path to power. Take the haters at their word, and assume the worst is imminent.

 

And this:

 

Quote

Which leads me to the third principle, the one hardest to grasp: Refuse to accept what’s going on as the new normal. Not now, not ever. In the months and years to come, decisions will be made that may strike you as perfectly sound, appointments announced that are inspired, and policies enacted you may even like. Friends and pundits will reach out to you and, invoking nuance, urge you to admit that there’s really nothing to fear, that things are more complex, that nothing is ever black or white. It’s a perfectly sound argument, of course, but it’s also dead wrong: This isn’t about policy or appointments or even about outcomes. This isn’t a political contest—it’s a moral crisis.

 

Love, AnnH

  • LIKE/LOVE 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Troy

@AnnH, thank you for that. I'll be sharing that!

 

@Leela CormanI don't have the same emotional and directly relevant inculcation you have about the horrors that are possible, but I know enough and I'm terrified, too. I've been keeping in mind a couple things to keep me calm and cool. For the sake of your family and your health, you have to be able to straddle the fine line between knowing the horrors that are potentially looming, but living the everyday necessities of mundane life that are routine as usual. 

 

First, I keep reminding myself of an often dismissed and startling statement from Michael: FEELINGS ARE NOT THE TRUTH. Our feelings help tell us how we feel about something, but 99% of what we feel about something is based on our projection, subjectivity, injection, imbuing, etc. So I have to stop sometimes and remember that I HAVE emotions, Emotions don't have me. Take a few deep breaths and then go to step two.

 

Second, I remind myself to ask WHAT IS TRUE? Is it true that I am facing imminent danger? Maybe, but I haven't yet. Is it true that there may be a long road of struggle ahead? Sure, it might be, but that isn't true, yet. Are my friends and family in danger? Probably, so I should take precautions and stay vigilant in case something happens, but that's not the same thing as behaving as if something already happened.

 

Remembering the insight from Michael doesn't make the situation better, but it can make us better at handling the situation.

  • LIKE/LOVE 22

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Juni

I found this, it's pertinent, I think:
From the article:
"People have a right to their opinions, speech, and votes. You have a right to think those opinions are crap and to think less of people when they spout them. Bigots think that “everyone” thinks as they do and that their views are “simple common sense.” What bigots are looking for when they say bigoted stuff to people who (as far as they know) share their race/class/orientation/disability status/etc. is solidarity and reassurance. Deny them this reassurance and solidarity. Deny them evidence that “everyone” thinks that way."

"True story: In undergrad, a professor invited Antonin Scalia (that Scalia) to our class to talk about hate crimes legislation and civil rights legislation in general. He made essentially the argument that many bigots make about this stuff – “Well, you can’t legislate people’s hearts, so why bother?” This was in 1993/1994 and I don’t have my notes anymore, so it’s not quite a direct quote that you can attribute, but he definitely said something along the lines of “If someone murders you because you’re gay or black, why can’t we just punish it like murder? Murder is already wrong enough, why do we have to saddle it with this extra burden of figuring out intent?

What he was ignoring is the way that oppression is about systems, not personal intent. Hate crimes are terrorism, meant to send a message to people in the targeted group that the same thing will happen to them. It’s not just violence against one person, it’s a threat and should be treated as one. While it would be nice if every hate group had a change of heart, what we can control is making it harder for them to do violence to people."
"Whatever you do, don’t smooth it over. Let it get super awkward. Be the party pooper at the bigot party. Get a reputation for being uptight and humorless and no fun."

 



https://captainawkward.com/2016/11/12/917-how-to-set-boundaries-with-people-who-think-boundaries-and-hurt-are-manipulative-aka-help-implementing-boundary-advice/

Edited by Juni
  • LIKE/LOVE 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Troy

This may be inspiring to many of us. I think it should be everyone's life anthem. Especially now. The words are beautiful, the song is haunting, and the video is striking.

 

WISE ENOUGH

I had a dream that all of time was running dry
and life was like a comet falling from the sky
I woke so frightened in the dawning, oh so clear
How precious is the time we have here

 

Are we not wise enough to give all we are?
Surely we're bright enough to outshine the stars
But human kind gets so lost in finding its way
And we have a chance to make a difference til our dying day

 

And you might pray to God, or say it's Destiny
But I think we are just hiding all that we can be

 

Are we not wise enough to give all we are?
Surely we're bright enough to outshine the stars
But human kind gets so lost in finding its way
And we have a chance to make a difference til our dying day

 

All I'm really asking is: what are we doing here?
Are we just killing time? Just living year to year?
In this big world, no one else can play our part
Ain't it time to just wake up and give it all

 

Are we not wise enough to give all we are?
Surely we're bright enough to outshine the stars
But human kind gets so lost in finding its way
And we have a chance to make a difference til our dying day

 

 

  • LIKE/LOVE 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Christian

In 1942, in Nazi Germany, a group of students met in secret and print pamphlets that they distributed around Munich.

They used the symbol the white rose.

 

They were caught by the Gestapo and executed in 1943.

 

I don't know why I remembered it in the week since the election.  But for some reason the symbol has more resonance than a safety pin for me.

I feel we must resist, not sure how yet. 

Not even sure why I shared this....just the talk of symbols and such....thought it might add or help.

 

 

 

 

  • LIKE/LOVE 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brian Taylor
22 hours ago, Christian said:

In 1942, in Nazi Germany, a group of students met in secret and print pamphlets that they distributed around Munich.

They used the symbol the white rose.

 

They were caught by the Gestapo and executed in 1943.

 

I don't know why I remembered it in the week since the election.  But for some reason the symbol has more resonance than a safety pin for me.

I feel we must resist, not sure how yet. 

Not even sure why I shared this....just the talk of symbols and such....thought it might add or help.

 

 

 

 

While I was at work on election day, my wife phoned me and told me about 4pm here in Calif.  She said she had a dream where her grandmother told her Trump would win and he could end up acting like Hitler.   I told my wife not to worry because all the smart political scientist pollsters said Clinton end up winning.   Fast forward to about midnight here in Calif. and Trump wins and remember some I had recently read, probably here, that Hitler didn't take power, it was given to him

  • LIKE/LOVE 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Janet

I did not sleep well last night and my anxiety over the election is renewed. I am reading Ken Follett's Century Trilogy, which follows the lives of several families from a time just before WWI into the late 20th century. 

 

I started reading the first volume in mid-October, and I can't even remember the sequence of steps that caused me to land on that book. A series of 'coincidences' I think, because I was just browsing Amazon to look for something new to read. I read fast so I have a preference for long books, and all three of these books are gigantic. I generally enjoy historical fiction, and I had read another Follett book (Pillars of the Earth) so I knew something of his style. He uses actual historical figures and events and surrounds them with fictional characters impacted by the events.

 

The first volume focused on events leading up to and through WWI. I had never studied WWI in depth so I learned a lot. It never occurred to me to not continue the series, and thus I started the second volume last night. Book 2 opens in Berlin with the rise of Hitler to power as shown via a family associated with the Social Democratic Party (SPD), the only party to vote against Hitler taking power via the Enabling Act. The large Communist party couldn't vote against him because they had already been arrested en masse after Hitler decided to blame them for a fire that massively damaged the parliament building. Even the Catholic party voted for the Enabling Act because the Nazis 'promised' to provide production for the church. Does this sound familiar given all the 'Christians' that voted for Trump?

 

This article relates the historical background for the early storyline of the novel: Divided They Fell.

 

I was horrified to recognize similarities between Trump's assorted thugs and the 'brownshirts' of the Nazi Party, and I could see exactly how the terror propagated by the Nazis against their own citizens led people to fear standing up for what is right. I really wanted to stop reading -- it was so upsetting! But there was so much relevant to today's situation that I felt I had to continue. I finally stopped reading in the wee hours of the morning, but I laid awake for hours. When I slept there were dreams involving resistance -- to Hitler? or to Trump?

 

I do not think we can count on the Democratic Party or any existing party to do the work of resistance for us. The major political parties are only interested in preserving their own power. It will be up to individuals to make a difference. One step at a time. 

 

 

  • LIKE/LOVE 12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DanielaS

@Janet What a synchronicity that you are reading that novel right now and seeing the similarities! I've been haunted the last few days by a web page I stumbled upon that has a passage from a book called, They Thought They Were Free. The book is a collection of interviews with Germans who lived in Nazi Germany, trying to explain how Hitler was able to take and retain power. A few passages made me really fear that this could happen here, now.

 

Like this:

 

"What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it."

 

And this:

 

"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it—please try to believe me—unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head."

 

I am so afraid that we are only one San Bernardino shooting away from a police state. A shooting like that happens again and that gives Trump all the reason he needs to do anything he wants to Muslim Americans. He is putting people in places of power -- Sessions, Flynn, Bannon-- to make internment camps or registries or whatever totally easy to do. Then any resistance will be vilified as un-American, unpatriotic, treasonous, endangering America. I can just imagine fear and tension rising even higher and divisions becoming deeper until there are real riots in the streets, with real casualties.

 

Not to mention any overseas wars Trump will get us into. It's really hard to make good jobs, which he promised people he'd do. It's really easy to make war and keep people busy and fighting and prop up the economy that way.

 

Sorry to be such a downer this morning, but this is what I woke up thinking about.

 

Serious question: Are some of those non-racist Trump voters, the ones who voted on the economy and jobs, speaking out against these bigots being appointed cabinet positions? If they really just voted for the economy and jobs, it seems that these appointments should incense them as much as it does us.

  • LIKE/LOVE 12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×