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U.S. Presidential Election Comfort and Anxiety Thread

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AnnH    564
AnnH

Today I got may nails done by the owner of the salon where I've been a customer for a few years. She immigrated from Poland maybe 30 years ago. She owns two shops: one in my neighborhood and another in one of the most upscale places in Chicago (Lincoln Park). She grew up under the Communist regime in Poland. To be honest, sometimes I've run into white immigrants who can be bigoted, so I tend to be careful.. She's a small business owner. After some conversation we made a few tentative broaching of the election. Through a few eyebrows raised, we made it pretty clear that we are both horrified by this election. She said she's still in denial. Her husband is from Pakistan. He is Muslim. She has two teenage children.

 

Many people I know who came here to the US from other countries often end up in relationships with other immigrants. And it doesn't really matter where either of them are from, it's the shared experience of being a world citizen.  Kasia, I know you can identify with this.

 

Then I read about the Adam Yauch Park in Brooklyn, which has been defaced by swastikas in the name of Trump. Adam Rauch was Jewish and one of the Beastie Boys.

 

This makes it so clear that I cannot be complacent. Every one of Trump's people are a part of a dystopian nightmare.

 

 

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AnnaD    2,372
AnnaD

one has to have a fight in them to fight this soon to be normalised extermination of anyone who is an immigrant, poc, non white, non conservative, queer - to fight it. 

Every assumption we have about living and let living, allowing people to do their own thing and harming none, is going to be sabotaged systematically in little and big ways. 

What DanielaS said, it frightens me more than anything. i never believed I would be living amongst people dumb enough to enable this monster to be given power. 

 

At this stage Muslims have not been forced to carry a yellow card/register themselves. There is always a beginning. I have no doubt this new ethnic sterilisation goal will start with registration, and end with extermination camps. How can we fight? I guess we fight with our numbers as they are at the time. Not fighting is not an option. What an awful situation to be forced to fight for. Will the unthreatened- by- trump -humans always stand by their Muslim/POC/non conservative/Queer humans? The cost of apathy and complacence is huge and carries more grief than fighting against hatred does.

 

Whoever survives can count the cost for the ones who died defying hatred and fear, anyway. How soon death comes who knows. What I know ahead of the fight and resistance against the haters is that their cause is worth fighting against but they are horrible horrible cruel people for establishing grounds for resistance and hatred in the first place.

Edited by AnnaD
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Erin    242
Erin
On 11/15/2016 at 0:02 PM, Paulyboy said:

 

YOU CANNOT UN-EXIST - Death may come to be a prominent issue for many of our students to process in these days and months ahead. We will talk more about this in our live chats with you, but it can be helpful to remember that death is not meant to eclipse a life. It is a part of life. There is little difference between life and death for either the Personality or Essence except in that whichever one is “in” tends to get the priority of importance. When you are “dead” it is exciting to process a life and plan a dive back into life. When you are alive, it is exciting to consider your immortality and your extra-dimensional selves. Death and Life are two sides of EXISTENCE. You exist. You cannot un-exist. No one you know can un-exist. You will continue to love, and find even more ways and whys to love. Letting people live is to let them exist, and letting people die is to let them exist. This understanding will not replace grief, but it can be a part of the healing that returns you to focus on life when death visits around you

 

Hi Erin. I remembered this snippet from the January 2016 Energy Report. It is often useful to look back through the previous reports to cross reference and validate if things seemed accurate.

 

 

Paul

 

btw, sooooooooo much more to say on this topic, but work calls. Hugs!

 

 

Hi Paulyboy,

 

Please don't take this as criticism or rudeness but I honestly am not sure what you are getting at.  I'm just confused.  I didn't say anything about un-existing, just that a lot of exits are taking place at the moment, and I posed a question of what, if anything, that could mean for the bigger picture...such as a lot of souls ending this particular incarnation and moving toward another one as we seem to be at a turning point of some sort.   Could you clarify please?   :) 

 

thank you 

Erin

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MichaelS    1,427
MichaelS
On 19/11/2016 at 5:48 PM, DanielaS said:

@Janet What a synchronicity that you are reading that novel right now and seeing the similarities! I've been haunted the last few days by a web page I stumbled upon that has a passage from a book called, They Thought They Were Free. The book is a collection of interviews with Germans who lived in Nazi Germany, trying to explain how Hitler was able to take and retain power. A few passages made me really fear that this could happen here, now.

 

Like this:

 

"What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it."

 

And this:

 

"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it—please try to believe me—unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head."

 

I am so afraid that we are only one San Bernardino shooting away from a police state. A shooting like that happens again and that gives Trump all the reason he needs to do anything he wants to Muslim Americans. He is putting people in places of power -- Sessions, Flynn, Bannon-- to make internment camps or registries or whatever totally easy to do. Then any resistance will be vilified as un-American, unpatriotic, treasonous, endangering America. I can just imagine fear and tension rising even higher and divisions becoming deeper until there are real riots in the streets, with real casualties.

 

Not to mention any overseas wars Trump will get us into. It's really hard to make good jobs, which he promised people he'd do. It's really easy to make war and keep people busy and fighting and prop up the economy that way.

 

Sorry to be such a downer this morning, but this is what I woke up thinking about.

 

Serious question: Are some of those non-racist Trump voters, the ones who voted on the economy and jobs, speaking out against these bigots being appointed cabinet positions? If they really just voted for the economy and jobs, it seems that these appointments should incense them as much as it does us.

Are they speaking out? Will they speak out? Do we wait for them to speak out? Germany in the 1930's provides us with some insight into that question Daniela.

 

Hitler offered the German people Autarky, jobs, an opportunity to reject the economic injustice and geo-political divisions imposed upon Germany by Versailles and through his bully boys in the SA he offered a hard line against politically inspired civil disobedience amongst Communists, socialists and trade unions; through restrictions on freedom of speech and through arbitrary violence, Hitler offered a newly built Wemeracht, and his was the voice that stood against the threat of Bolshevism.

 

At the heart of Hitler's vision of his Third Reich was the elimination of that which he held responsible for Germany's defeat in 1918 and which came to be known as the Final Solution. He was upfront about his hatred of the Jews but let's not forget he included homosexuals, Roma Gipsies and Jehovah's Witnesses, too. Not to mention Liberals, Socialists and Communists. In 1933, 18 million German people voted for Hitler in a free election. All 18 million Germans thought Hitler's hate was just dandy-so long as he put Germany back to work and kept the Bolsheviks at bay. Germany just couldn't get enough of the NDSAP so they threw flowers and cheered him on. 18 million Germans were guilty of Complacency and Convenience. According to Michael, I and my family were amongst them, and I and my family paid for our Complacency and Convenience with our lives, some time in 1943. Just as in 2016, our arms weren't being twisted either.

 

Hitler was the popular choice. When Hitler made himself Chancellor they were still prepared to stick with him. When the Reichstaag burned they stuck with him.  The media came under state control, Goebbel's propaganda came thick and fast and still they stuck with him. The Geheimestaatpolitzei exerted a sinister grip on everyday life, Kristallnacht came and went and the German people still supported their Fuhrer. Hitler lied and lied again; he shook hands with Stalin and Poland fell, he lied to Chamberlain and Czechoslovakia fell, he lied to Austria and Anschluss was their shame and STILL the German people stood by Hitler until it was too late to protest; there was no going back against a militarised Fascist totalitarian state.

 

There are striking parallels today Daniela. It is still early of course but at what point will non-racist US voters reject their choice? Trump's fascination with Putin appears to be a popular choice. This is no political convenience. China are Economic Imperialists and unlike Japan in 1941 who sought a geo-political Pacific Empire, China will ruthlessly pursue their economic empire. How will Trump play this out? Putin may be forced to make a choice and this choice will be crucial to America's place in the world. Putin's choice may cause those who voted Trump for jobs and the economy, to revise their choice. It may not. My point is that it doesn't matter.

 

Do we wait until democratic protest through the Judiciary is deemed to be unlawful assembly? Before Martial Law is established? Before internment is established for minority groups? Germany in the 1930's shows us that Democratic protest should begin NOW and not when it's too late, because it may become too late mighty quickly. It is up to all of us to freely and with authenticity express our consciousness NOW in whatever way we are able, in thought, in word and in peaceful protest. We can't let history repeat itself. 

Edited by MichaelS
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Leela Corman    849
Leela Corman

And My last lifetime ended in Auschwitz; according to Michael, I was a young gay Jewish man from France. Interestingly, in my meditations before they told me that, I figured out a little of that. But not the worst. And a few years after that session with them, I had the most vivid, terrifying memory of that death. Part of it, anyway. I'm happy to detail it if people want to read it. 

 

In this lifetime, I was born into a family of Polish Jews who were survivors. It is a fucked up thing to survive a genocide. But you know what? Many Americans you meet are traumatized by history. African-American, Native American, descendant of immigrants from nearly anywhere? There's a lot of trauma to go around and right now I would say that we are all deeply triggered.

 

I have more to say but it's tough on my phone.

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MichaelS    1,427
MichaelS
19 hours ago, Leela Corman said:

And My last lifetime ended in Auschwitz; according to Michael, I was a young gay Jewish man from France. Interestingly, in my meditations before they told me that, I figured out a little of that. But not the worst. And a few years after that session with them, I had the most vivid, terrifying memory of that death. Part of it, anyway. I'm happy to detail it if people want to read it. 

 

In this lifetime, I was born into a family of Polish Jews who were survivors. It is a fucked up thing to survive a genocide. But you know what? Many Americans you meet are traumatized by history. African-American, Native American, descendant of immigrants from nearly anywhere? There's a lot of trauma to go around and right now I would say that we are all deeply triggered.

 

I have more to say but it's tough on my phone.

Yes Leela, I'd figured out a little, too. My grandfather was a Russian Jew who escaped a pogram to Canada and later the UK and my wife's first gen Polish. (Michael says she was with me in Germany, together with our kids.) My daughter is happily and openly gay and we love her for it and the other half of my family are devout Jehovah's Witnesses. All of our family bring us great joy but it's those things that we take for granted that often gently nudge our thinking. And the thinking is this: don't fuck it up again.

Edited by MichaelS
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ClaireC    1,474
ClaireC
On Wednesday, November 16, 2016 at 4:28 PM, Juni said:

I found this, it's pertinent, I think:
From the article:
"People have a right to their opinions, speech, and votes. You have a right to think those opinions are crap and to think less of people when they spout them. Bigots think that “everyone” thinks as they do and that their views are “simple common sense.” What bigots are looking for when they say bigoted stuff to people who (as far as they know) share their race/class/orientation/disability status/etc. is solidarity and reassurance. Deny them this reassurance and solidarity. Deny them evidence that “everyone” thinks that way."

"True story: In undergrad, a professor invited Antonin Scalia (that Scalia) to our class to talk about hate crimes legislation and civil rights legislation in general. He made essentially the argument that many bigots make about this stuff – “Well, you can’t legislate people’s hearts, so why bother?” This was in 1993/1994 and I don’t have my notes anymore, so it’s not quite a direct quote that you can attribute, but he definitely said something along the lines of “If someone murders you because you’re gay or black, why can’t we just punish it like murder? Murder is already wrong enough, why do we have to saddle it with this extra burden of figuring out intent?

What he was ignoring is the way that oppression is about systems, not personal intent. Hate crimes are terrorism, meant to send a message to people in the targeted group that the same thing will happen to them. It’s not just violence against one person, it’s a threat and should be treated as one. While it would be nice if every hate group had a change of heart, what we can control is making it harder for them to do violence to people."
"Whatever you do, don’t smooth it over. Let it get super awkward. Be the party pooper at the bigot party. Get a reputation for being uptight and humorless and no fun."

 



https://captainawkward.com/2016/11/12/917-how-to-set-boundaries-with-people-who-think-boundaries-and-hurt-are-manipulative-aka-help-implementing-boundary-advice/

 

@Juni Love this whole post!  Thank you.

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Heidi    3,038
Heidi
13 hours ago, Leela Corman said:

And My last lifetime ended in Auschwitz; according to Michael, I was a young gay Jewish man from France. Interestingly, in my meditations before they told me that, I figured out a little of that. But not the worst. And a few years after that session with them, I had the most vivid, terrifying memory of that death. Part of it, anyway. I'm happy to detail it if people want to read it. 

 

Leela, I apologize for my morbid curiosity, but you've piqued it. Please elaborate if you're willing!

 

 

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Paulyboy    511
Paulyboy
19 hours ago, Erin said:

 

Hi Paulyboy,

 

Please don't take this as criticism or rudeness but I honestly am not sure what you are getting at.  I'm just confused.  I didn't say anything about un-existing, just that a lot of exits are taking place at the moment, and I posed a question of what, if anything, that could mean for the bigger picture...such as a lot of souls ending this particular incarnation and moving toward another one as we seem to be at a turning point of some sort.   Could you clarify please?   :) 

 

thank you 

Erin

 

Hi Erin ^_^

 

Looking back, I didn't clarify much at all. I saw that you had lost two family members and two feline friends. This reminded me of an energy report earlier this year and the possibility that there would be a lot of death personally in our lives this year, or at least it might be hilighted. Your words reminded me of this and I wanted to find the reference article to death being a possible theme this year and how it would draw our attention and perspective.

 

I wasn't necessarily going for the un existing part, but more just "this might be a theme." Since the bulk of what I quoted was about existing vs. un existing and not simply "this might be a theme," I seem to have missed what I was trying to convey with much clarity. My brain went off on its own tangent and I think I missed the point of what you were conveying while I went looking up old articles. My apologies, and thank you for asking for the clarification ^_^

 

 

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Kathryn41    23
Kathryn41

Troy,  perhaps it's time to think of the future.  In this reality - or perhaps a parallel reality ( and we can try to align with it!) - Trump is the architect of his own destruction.  His behaviour as President becomes so extreme that even his own party members become alarmed.  He continues to mine the US for his own personal gain and aggrandizement, not giving any care to the requests for moderation and warnings given to him by responsible and knowledgeable public servants and elected officials,  so that before the Mid-term elections he is impeached - and such details of his actions while in office come to light that he is also charged with treason.  Warned beforehand by some of his cronies ( many of whom will end up sharing in those charges), he flees the US to Russia where he has already been feathering his nest with his offshore accounts, and is greeted with open arms by Putin - at first.  Because he can't maintain the facade of compliant compatibility, he soon expresses his true personality to his Russian hosts and quickly wears out his welcome.  Back in the US he has been found guilty and sentenced in absentia.  Tired of their unpleasant 'guest'  Russia publicly denies the US' extradition request but behind the scenes quietly arranges/ allows for Trump to be captured and returned to the US.  It would be nice if he actually made it back to face justice but in all likelihood he will probably die in hiding, exiled, disgraced, isolated, and abandoned by his former partners, colleagues and family - who are all fighting their own legal challenges.  And, as we know from the nature of parallel realities, this one does exist out there - and it may well be this one - the one we are in.  We can only hope. :)

Edited by Kathryn41
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Troy    6,365
Troy

I can't wrap my head around just how bad this is getting, and how fast it is getting bad. This horror show is just the calm before the shit storm.

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NicholasV    272
NicholasV
2 hours ago, Troy said:

This horror show is just the calm before the shit storm.

 

Why do you think there'll be a shit storm? Couldn't this presidency roll out without the necessity for crazy upheavals? I would predict that this is a tremendous time in America's history. 

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Troy    6,365
Troy
1 hour ago, NicholasV said:

 

Why do you think there'll be a shit storm? Couldn't this presidency roll out without the necessity for crazy upheavals? I would predict that this is a tremendous time in America's history. 

 

 

For the sake of presuming innocence, I'm going to assume for a few moments that you are actually being serious and that this is an innocent question. I would like to think it is an innocent statement that is hoping for the best, but because you actually posed these questions below, I can't presume this was just a matter of semantics and wording.

 

Why do I think there will be a shit storm? Because it ALREADY IS. We have a rise in hate crimes, a rise of emboldened White Supremacists, and 18 months of racist, homophobic, sexist, xenophobic, violent ranting from their mentally unstable, pathological liar of a leader promising the destruction and oppression of all who do not comply to White Supremacist ideology. Because *everything* Trump is doing is parallel to the rise of Hitler. *EVERY THING* Not just symbolically, but from a playbook. I really don't see how you can watch the chilling rise of a fascist into power through one specific group of people who are convinced they are destined to "conquer" those not like them. They only way you could possibly NOT see this as a shit storm is if you ignore *every* angle on this horrorshow that is unfolding.

 

Couldn't this presidency roll out without the necessity for crazy upheavals? He isn't even a president and the upheavals have begun. He is systematically destroying any checks and balances in our government so that he can rule unchecked, with no opposition and no obstruction and no law. He is appointing known White Supremacists to offices of highest power. If you are unfamiliar with White Supremacist ideology, you will find that a large portion of our population are in for a horrific, violent, and deadly few years ahead, not to mention the roll back of their legal Rights and Protections and any ability to access the political system to unseat these monsters.

 

I would predict that this is a tremendous time in America's history. Oh, it's a tremendous time alright, but not for anyone who isn't White, Christian, Male, and Heterosexual. The only way any human being could say that is because A) you identify with one or more of these identities of White, Male, Heterosexual, and Christian (the more you can check off, the more likely you, literally, cannot comprehend the dire situation we are in), and/or B) you agree with White Supremacist ideology; C) you are completely clueless as to what is going on and what it means; D) you are somehow ok with the idea that people should suffer the horrors of conditions like the Holocaust in order "to grow," or E) you are just trolling the TLE community.

 

I have ZERO tolerance for anyone supporting Trump, celebrating Trump, or in any way downplaying the serious implications of his presidency, not because of any "differences in opinion," but because this goes light years beyond "opinions." I await your response and clarification.

 

 

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NicholasV    272
NicholasV

It's atrocious that you make the association of Trump and what Hitler did in Germany in the war. For the host of an "old soul" community, your notion of zero tolerance is unfounded. Your persistence in pandering about the negative effects of the government is contrary to the nation's progress.

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Maureen    5,336
Maureen
1 hour ago, NicholasV said:

It's atrocious that you make the association of Trump and what Hitler did in Germany in the war. For the host of an "old soul" community, your notion of zero tolerance is unfounded. Your persistence in pandering about the negative effects of the government is contrary to the nation's progress.

 

Nicholas, that's interesting what you said about being Old Souls. I was just thinking this afternoon that that is EXACTLY why we get what is going on. We are awake. We've lived it. We've seen it before and know the signs. There is a lot of work to do and we won't get anything done by ignoring what is going on in the world right now, what is going in the U.S. Peace for all often comes at a heavy price. More to say later...

Edited by Maureen
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Troy    6,365
Troy
1 hour ago, NicholasV said:

It's atrocious that you make the association of Trump and what Hitler did in Germany in the war. For the host of an "old soul" community, your notion of zero tolerance is unfounded. Your persistence in pandering about the negative effects of the government is contrary to the nation's progress.

 

Let's get a few things straight here:

 

HITLER VS TRUMP: The comparison to Hitler is entirely accurate and relevant and historians are pointing this out in no uncertain terms. Remember: Hitler was still Hitler before he was Hitler. Hitler didn't just one day show up. He rose to power and used specific, manipulative tactics to scramble the senses of people, destroy outlets of news that could inform anyone of facts, and squashed any opposition through careful maneuvering of loyalists into positions to buffer him from accountability. Trump and his campaign are using the *exact* tactics to rise in power that Hitler used. The fact that you consider the comparison between Hitler and Trump to be more "atrocious" than what Trump is doing says a lot. 

 

OLD SOULS - "Old Soul" does not equate being spineless. "Old Soul" does not equate apathy. "Old Soul" does not equate lack of passion or lack of discernment or lack of ability to assess danger or a lack of ability to deal with reality. And being an Old Soul does not equate having to stand in the middle of every metaphorical fire bomb thrown at us and make you feel ok about throwing it.

 

ZERO TOLERANCE - Trump, his campaign, and his people have explicitly and specifically targeted efforts toward destroying the Rights, Equality, legal protections and safety of my life and the lives of my friends. Trump promises to escalate those targeted attacks on us. His Vice President has already made history with his fetishistic hatred for LGBTQ and has implemented laws that specifically harm us. It is well within reason for me not to host anyone who actively and defensively celebrates those who wish to harm me and my friends and many of the students here.

 

PANDERING TO NEGATIVITY - That's a really silly thing to say. If your house is on fire and you call the fire department, you aren't "pandering to negativity." The house is on fire! That's just the reality of the situation! So, calling out the White Supremacists who are now moving into positions of power over the United States is not "pandering to negativity." We are in very real danger. If you don't see that, then, as I said, you must be WHITE, MALE, HETEROSEXUAL, and/or CHRISTIAN. That is the only way you could possibly be that blind to the dangers and threats we face now.

 

WARNING - I will never try to take away your freedom to celebrate and support homophobia, misogyny, sexism, racism, xenophobia, hate, violence, and oppression. That's your choice. But you will not celebrate those values here. We are here to learn how to choose, and to choose how to learn. Make your choice.

 

 

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Brian Taylor    45
Brian Taylor

The people that are populating Herr Trump's inner circle are the leaders of the 'basket of deplorables'.   Can we hope that Trump is the kind, generous, thoughtful man that his eldest daughter thinks him to be?   Probably no, not with who he wants to be around him.   The people Trump picks to be his advisors and Cabinet members will try to insulate Trump from conflict, tell him the nation loves him and the people who don't, will eventually come around.  The narcissist that Trump is will stop him from having anyone but people who depend on HIM for their identity.  Why then is Trump speaking with establishment types like Romney?   The answer:  window dressing.  

Anyone read Stephen King's Dead Zone recently?

 

 

Edited by Brian Taylor
left out a word
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Troy    6,365
Troy

FROM DAN RATHER:

Now is a time when none of us can afford to remain seated or silent. We must all stand up to be counted.

 

History will demand to know which side were you on. This is not a question of politics or party or even policy. This is a question about the very fundamentals of our beautiful experiment in a pluralistic democracy ruled by law.

 

When I see neo-Nazis raise their hands in terrifying solute, in public, in our nation's capital, I shudder in horror. When I see that action mildly rebuked by a boilerplate statement from the President-elect whom these bigots have praised, the anger in me grows. And when I see some in a pliant press turn that mild statement into what they call a denunciation I cannot hold back any longer.

 

Our Declaration of Independence bequeaths us our cherished foundational principle: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

 

These truths may be self-evident but they are not self-replicating. Each generation has to renew these vows. This nation was founded as an opposite pole to the capriciousness of an authoritarian monarch. We set up institutions like a free press and an independent court system to protect our fragile rights. We have survived through bloody spasms of a Civil War and a Civil Rights Movement to extend more of these rights to more of our citizens. But the direction of our ship of state has not always been one of progress. We interned Japanese Americans, Red Baited during the McCarthy era, and more. I feel the rip tide of regression once again swelling under my feet. But I intend to remain standing.

 

In normal times of a transition in our presidency between an incoming and outgoing administration of differing political parties, there is a certain amount of fretting on one side and gloating on the other. And the press usually takes a stance that the new administration at least deserves to have a chance to get started - a honeymoon period. But these are not normal times. This is not about tax policy, health care, or education - even though all those and more are so important. This is about racism, bigotry, intimidation and the specter of corruption.

 

But as I stand I do not despair, because I believe the vast majority of Americans stand with me. To all those in Congress of both political parties, to all those in the press, to religious and civic leaders around the country. your voices must be heard. I hope that the President-elect can learn to rise above this and see the dangers that are brewing. If he does and speaks forcibly, and with action, we should be ready to welcome his voice. But of course, I am deeply worried that his selections of advisors and cabinet posts suggest otherwise.

 

To all of you I say, stay vigilant. The great Martin Luther King, Jr. knew that even as a minority, there was strength in numbers in fighting tyranny. Holding hands and marching forward, raising your voice above the din of complacency, can move mountains. And in this case, I believe there is a vast majority who wants to see this nation continue in tolerance and freedom. But it will require speaking. Engage in your civic government. Flood newsrooms or TV networks with your calls if you feel they are slipping into the normalization of extremism. Donate your time and money to causes that will fight to protect our liberties.

 

We are a great nation. We have survived deep challenges in our past. We can and will do so again. But we cannot be afraid to speak and act to ensure the future we want for our children and grandchildren.

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NicholasV    272
NicholasV

 

54 minutes ago, Troy said:

The fact that you consider the comparison between Hitler and Trump to be more "atrocious" than what Trump is doing says a lot. 

What does it say ?

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Troy    6,365
Troy
48 minutes ago, NicholasV said:

 

What does it say ?

 

I can only humor this conversation for so long, but I'm going to treat this as your serious attempt to understand, though this is borderline trolling.

 

It says to me that your criteria for what is "atrocious" are very different, if not reverse, from mine and the people who are being targeted by this man. Trump can fully implement the same tactics of Hitler to rise to power and do so through demonizing and destroying entire demographics but *that's* not atrocious to you. And comparing their tactics *is* atrocious? 

 

You don't see a severe disconnect here?

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Sam K    1,000
Sam K

This seems like an unproductive line of discussion.  Trump is Hitler 2.0 or he's not.  Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.  Either way, our basic mission remains the same: stand up to injustice, be kind, do what we can to help others.  

 

We know we're in a breakdown, whether that ends up literally applying to the social order or not; let's get to work on making it a breakthrough.

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KurtisM    2,504
KurtisM

I agree. Intellectual debates are about bringing some sort of logic to our own feelings. Which aren't the truth.

They can be good for reflecting, considering and exhanging- but if used as the only energy you're putting forth in the world, they're not action. 

I'd say they might be like exhausting us of all our fuel, rather than energizing us with fuel.

 

Trump is still a "threat" to breakthroughs in our collective evolution. That remains the same, so our collective goal is for breakthrough, rather than breakdown. In all senses of the word, intellectually or physically.

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Bibi    386
Bibi
On 11.11.2016 at 6:58 PM, Troy said:

Michael has always said we are repeating the cycle of Rome falling. It's falling. And falling fast. 

 

Wow. I am just catching up with all these conversations and yes, I agree. I am sitting across the pond in Europe, and lately I was telling myself the same. The falling of Rome all over again. I just hope that we won´t go back to the medieval times. I have always found during my education something very comforting about the Age of Enlightment. I don´t want to go back and repeat history. And yet, I can see the historical cycles. Our time seems to be really a turning time. 

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Bibi    386
Bibi
On 12.11.2016 at 5:06 PM, Evelin said:

 

Ann, ditto. I'm not paranoid or even pessimistic, either. Yet I feel the same, like this is the beginning. But I also feel like we still have some choice in how we go about this, what we do with it.

As to where it could happen? Well, the "Old Europe" is also quite ripe for all kinds of interesting things now. But I suspect it doesn't really matter where, we are so connected by now, on this planet, that everything has a strong ripple effect.

 

Well, old Europe is ripe, in fact too ripe, if you ask me. And yes, we are also on the verge of interesting happenings. But it is true that it doesn´t really matter where it will happen, since the world is in many aspects already united. It is like a domino effect.

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