Jump to content


Popular Content

Showing content with the highest reputation since 03/15/2019 in Posts

  1. 22 points
    My heart goes out to everyone affected by this in New Zealand. And to everyone who has endured the effects of this man and his followers on our lives and communities. I drew a line in this community long ago and said that I would not welcome any Trump followers. A handful of members thought this was terribly unloving and unacceptable of me to declare this space a safe space from bigotry. But as the years have passed and people have been murdered over and over in the name of this man and his hateful ideology, I hope you can now see why we drew that line for this community. The toxicity of this man is spreading like an infection and it is reaching other countries. Even Canada. Even New Zealand! THIS is why we can’t use new age righteousness and syrupy notions of “love” to blind ourselves to real dangers and threats in our world. THIS is why you should listen to people who are from targeted and vulnerable groups who speak up well in advance about how dangerous an ideology is and why we should draw clear boundaries of safety against it. This is why we can’t pretend everything is ok and that if we just love enough we are untouchable. This is why we can’t pretend Trump is just a passing American problem. THIS is why I declared long ago that no Trump followers are welcome in any community I host. This is real, people. This is not going away. Keep loving and being accepting and giving people the benefit of the doubt, but when you know of anyone who aligns with an ideology that inspires mass murder, oppression, inequality, racism, sexism, homophobia, hate, and violence, IT’s FUCKING OK TO SAY NO and to say it loudly. Otherwise, we are part of the problem. https://nypost.com/2019/03/14/new-zealand-mosque-shooter-livestreamed-killings-on-facebook/ Excerpt: In the manifesto, the gunman, who identifies himself as a 28-year-old from Australia, rages against “Islamic invaders” who are “occupying European soil.” He offers support for President Trump as “a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose” but not “as a policymaker and leader.” He also writes that he carried out the attack so that “the aftershock of my actions will ripple for years to come, driving political and social discourse, creating the atmosphere for fear and change that is required.” EDIT: I’m including this important call to action for all White People. Please take this seriously.
  2. 19 points
    I can't read through this entire thread, but I need to say something, as a Jew, as a woman, as a punk, as a descendant of Holocaust survivors: you don't let Nazis in the door. You don't argue with them, try to convince them of the error of their ways, appeal to the better angels of their nature. There are boundaries to tolerance. My humanity is not up for debate. The humanity of LGBT people, Jews, people of color, Muslims, women, is not up for debate. To suggest otherwise is sophistry that most of us don't have the luxury to engage in. When you allow a skinhead to have a seat at your bar, they return the next night with twenty of their friends and beat the shit out of everyone. That's a lesson punks in the US and the UK learned in the 80's and 90's, and they drove them out of their scenes by not tolerating them. You can read plenty about that; somewhere there's an oral history of people like Henry Rollins etc. talking about how they did it. It wasn't easy but they did it. We all need to learn from them. White supremacy is the danger we all face right now, locally and systemically. We need to be loud about that. A white supremacist murdered worshippers in a synagogue in Pittsburgh, in fact I'm pretty sure in the synagogue where my aunt was a cantor. White supremacist violence is everywhere and has been for centuries; I encourage everyone to view it systemically and not fall into the trap of the "lone wolf" narrative, which only serves their agenda. America and Australia were both founded on white supremacy. We are barely out from chattel slavery. Mass incarceration is slavery by another name. The direct results of systemic, targeted racism are everywhere in our society, from the justice system to the economy to urban planning to education to who gets toxic waste dumped in their neighborhoods and who doesn't. Native genocide is still happening. We are fucked over by white supremacy all the time. Meanwhile little white boys strut around with torches yelling "Jews will not replace us!" and Rep. Ilhan Omar gets death threats for merely suggesting that we broaden out Middle East policy discourse. Fuck all of this. These people are toxic. We outnumber them and as my favorite Yiddish slogan goes, We will outlive them. But we won't do so by pretending there's any validity to their beliefs. Don't let Nazis in the door.
  3. 18 points
    I am making the call to lock down this thread. I have never done that before in my 12 years of hosting TLE. Why now? Because this conversation has disintegrated into a tedious and futile effort to explain and justify ourselves (ad nauseum) to one or two people who insist on our accepting what they have decided is best for everyone else. Because this is no longer a healthy discussion about practicing healthy boundaries in a world where our fake U.S. president is the inspiration for his followers to commit mass murder. Because we shouldn’t have to explain and justify our right to healthy boundaries. Because there are now people crossing well over the line of healthy discussion and acting as mouthpieces for very hateful and harmful racist and bigoted rhetoric. Because shutting down a conversation that has devolved into pitting us against racist and bigoted rhetoric is an example of clarifying healthy boundaries. Because our community is better than this and we have better things to do than this. Because this is a shared classroom and this conversation has moved from being instructive to being disruptive. Because this conversation was done a long time ago and has become noise. And if you disagree with my call, that’s ok. Please express your approval or disapproval using the Emoticon/Like button options. Differences of opinion and perspective are welcome here.* *Hateful ideologies or defending those with hateful ideologies are not welcome here.
  4. 16 points
    I am done with the conversation about how I should be more accepting and welcoming to those who actively support or cause harm and violence to people of color and various rejected genders and sexualities. There is nothing to debate here. Those who support harm to others are not welcome here. Those who actively or passively support White Supremacy ARE NOT WELCOME HERE. END. OF. STORY. This is a community where no person of color or of various genders or sexualities will ever have to face or deal with the people who passively or actively support harm to their lives. END. OF. STORY. This is a community that hosts a teaching that invites us to be loving and accepting but to also use our fucking brains and hearts to know the difference between healthy boundaries and unhealthy excuses. If you study this teaching and are here to learn from this teaching, then you will learn that it does not mean you are less evolved when you say no to abuse and harm and say no to those who cause and support abuse and harm to you. This teaching describes one of its 7 Goals as DISCRIMINATION for a reason. We all learn how to say no and when to say no, how to say yes and when to say yes. To always say yes or to always say no is unhealthy. I say yes to everyone who is all for the well-being and safety and kindness for their fellow human beings. I say no to anyone who actively or passively supports harm and violence to their fellow human beings. WHAT IS SO CONFUSING ABOUT THAT? HOW IS THAT UP FOR DEBATE? If you have a problem with any of the above, this community is not for you. If you are still trying to understand and make sense of it, stick around and see if you can understand and make sense of it. But if you have a problem with any of the above, seriously... this community is not for you. Thank you for your time. PS If someone supports Trump, they support White Supremacist ideology. There is no way around that and no excuses left anymore. If you know of someone who somehow does not realize this, you need to tell them so that they know. If they claim they do not support White Supremacy ideology but support Trump for other reasons, you need to tell them that this STILL MEANS they are actively supporting White Supremacist ideology. If they continue to support Trump despite all of this, then do whatever works for you in dealing with this. Just don't invite them to join TLE.
  5. 15 points
    Hey everyone! I would really love everyone to take pause for a moment to honor and take note of the overall tone of exchange in this thread and how, even in its escalation, everyone was so patient and willing and honest and clear and authentic and even kind. Everyone was. If this kind of passionate conversation feels terrifying and hostile, then you either don’t get out much or you have never belonged to any other online platform before. Because, come on, this thread is beautiful and frustrating, passionate and tedious, but not something to avoid or fear or cause you to shut down and run for your life. The worst thread that ever happened on TLE was almost the same as this one except for a couple of ugly exchanges that had a few people clutching their pearls. Apologies and clarifications were exchanged and all was well. With thousands and thousands of posts a year of amazing and intimate and warm and generous exchanges, it’s really hard for me to understand anyone who would define this community or lecture or scold any one of us for these relatively rare heated exchanges. I feel like we have it really good here! The people here are amazing to me and I am inspired on a regular basis by everyone who participates. So I just wanted to say thank you and express my appreciation and gratitude for being the most loving and warm and generous and passionate and honest and welcoming of communities I’ve ever been a known. Just feeling mushy tonight. Love and rainbows all around!
  6. 15 points
    This material was obtained in a POF on March 17, 2019. Note from Janet: Normally I might just plop this into the Study Library with similar material from other years, but because it was received at the end of a POF when Troy's focus was slipping, I thought it best to invite some discussion first. I have crossed out a word in the 3rd question that I think does not belong. Janet: What are the seven questions or elements that prompt our learning in an Artisan year? MEntity: What are you contributing to the mood and tone around you? Do you allow yourself to be right when you are right, and wrong when you are wrong? Do you allow others to be right when they are right, and to accept that they can be wrong when they are wrong? Do you know the difference between when you must create your reality and when you must allow reality? Do you participate in extracting and nurturing the beauty that can be found in the chaos of life? How often do you abandon or reject or dismiss what you have created or allowed in your life? How often do you see life as an equation of punishment and reward versus an equation of creation and participation? These questions may be refined in further exchanges when Troy's focus is more optimal, but we think these work.
  7. 15 points
    Something to remember... love may be unconditional but all relationships have conditions. This is one of my favourite quotes: "The third near enemy of compassion is idiot compassion. This is when we avoid conflict and protect our good image by being kind when we should say a definite 'no.' Compassion doesn't imply only trying to be good. When we find ourselves in an aggressive relationship, we need to set clear boundaries. The kindest thing we can do for everyone concerned is to say, 'enough.' Many people use Buddhist ideals to justify self-debasement. In the name of not shutting our heart, we let people walk all over us. It is said that in order not to break our vow of compassion we have to learn when to stop aggression and draw the line. There are times when the only way to bring down barriers is to set boundaries." ~ Pema Chödrön, The Places that Scare You
  8. 14 points
    But try to understand, is the fragility of some worth more than the legitimate concerns and issues facing an oppressed and persecuted people? To me that just sounds like their fragility is somehow more of a concern than an actual threat to an entire group of people. And maybe I'm assuming a great deal from that, but it also seems extremely childish to not be able to listen to someone's point of view. Yes, at times it can come across here as extremely harsh but only because there is no sense of protecting someone's feelings over the reality of what's happening in the world.. I come from a very rural area in Ohio and happen to live an extremely privileged life, hardly ever wanting for anything. I have no idea of the lives and challenges of an oppressed group of people face every day from society. Sure, I've been bullied and felt like an "other" most of my life, but that isn't the same as an entire culture, ideology, and even society challenging your position to just exist in the world. The point I'm trying to make is that I do my best to just listen. For some reason much of what is posted whenever these topics come up is still triggering to me in a lot of ways. I don't know why, I'm still trying to work that out why I get so angry and feel the need to lash out, but the point is I never do. I take that extra time to listen, to really try to put myself into someone else's shoes to understand their perspective. That's all that's being asked is just to listen, really listen and, if you can, help and be an ally to these people and groups.
  9. 13 points
    I was very sick for the last month and had now 3 good days in a row, yes, yes, yes!!! Therefore I wasn't able to follow everything here on beautiful TLE, nor could I participate actively as much as I would have liked to. It seems though, that it will take me a while, to engage more fully. Aside from my above mentioned illness, that is nearly overcome, as it seems right now. Something else is developing rapidly, that was genetically in the cards, that I have chosen for this life time. Both my parents were inflicted, so I have the double whammy, only that they developed it much later, than I am. It is called "Celtic hand" or "Viking disease" or" Dupuytren's". Only North Europeans carry it and rarely get it. There is no cure and little help, so far. If anyone here knows something that might help, I gladly want to know. To use a keyboard and a mouse nowadays is a slow, painful and exhausting thing to do for me, as of course a lot of other things that have to do with using my hands. I will keep up my high spirits and deal with my life in the most hedonistic way I can imagine. I am very grateful for having all of YOUS in my life via this precious TLE community, I love to read and contemplate everything, that MEntity, Troy or any of You have to say. So, if you don't hear from me that much, you know now why, plus I granted myself a longer journey to Europe in the near future. I will go regularly online to read all that is presented, and will learn from you. Big Bear Hug to everyone!!!!!!!!!
  10. 13 points
    @JeanneS Michael has stated that it would be easier for us as a species to learn through joy. Yet, more often than not we learn through suffering. They have stated before that suffering isn’t planned in between incarnations. Moreover, they have stated that suffering on the astral is of a different quality and it’s easy to forget what suffering is like on the physical plane from there. So given that it doesn’t make sense that anyone would plan to negatively affect millions of people while still on the astral. Doing that would mean they are planning to create thousands or millions of karma ribbons. Why do that? We’re over here trying to burn off karma ribbons. One of the things i’ve taken away from this teaching is to give up the idea that “everything happens for a reason.” Things happen because the physical plane is chaotic and messy. I’ve also given up the idea that bad things happen for us specifically to learn from them. Things just happen and how we deal with those things is for us to choose. We learn from our choices. 45 and co are making bad choices, not to teach us lessons but because they suck at making choices. It’s more likely they planned less destructive lives and will spend a good bit of time reviewing their lives when they leave the physical plane.
  11. 13 points
    Wow. this thread has blown up and to be honest I don't have the energy to read through all the comments. two thoughts. 1) When I saw @Troy post this my first thought was "what the fuck is there to re-evaluate". Nothing has changed with Trumpettes and if Micheal is correct it won't and is likely to get worse as they fall further into delusion. So, it didn't make sense to me to re-evaluate. 2) @Leela Corman is exactly right. You don't let them in. Because when you do, you will have to use violent means to remove them. We fought a fucking war over this before. And the modern day posers have marched with signs saying "Only bullets will stop us". The Trumpettes are already there. This is one of the few places on the internetz where that kind of BS isn't allowed or tolerated and I, for one, hope it stays that way.
  12. 13 points
    I was listening to a true crime podcast last month, dirty john. About a woman named Debra who continues to nurture a relationship with the most redflags a relationship could possibly have, until the guy tries to kill her daughter...to the surprise of NO ONE. There was a chapter where they interviewed Debra’s mother. The mother told a story about how her other daughter ( Debra’s sister) was shot and killed by her husband ( the daughters husband). The daughter asked for her mothers help moving out of the relationship. The mom continued to say “ You know, we should love people. We should forgive people. Make an effort in your marriage”. Her daughter just wanted out. The husbands response to her wanting out was to shoot her in the head. The mother was devestated by the loss of her daughter but as SOON as the trial began against her son in law ...she stood infront of a court and said “ I forgive him, I love him. He was out of his mind when he shot her. I know he loved her so much that he could not bear losing her. He loved her so much. I forgive him”. The man was given a short sentence for killing a woman who wanted out of the marriage. The testimony of the mother was the reason for that short sentence. Years later, Debrah is in a relationship that she knows will end horribly. There are too many red flags to deny that: The constant restraining orders, hidden drugs, lies upon lies upon lies. Everytime she wants to leave she thinks of the goodness in others. She notices how much he does for her, how much he loves her, She forgives him for his past with no sign that he has learned from it. He ends up trying to kill her daughter ...just to hurt her. This mentality of reaching our arms out to our abusers has a price. The price is spreading ideologies of boundarilessness. Ideologies of powerlessness. So many of life’s experiences require us to exercise our love muscle. Require us to see the other perspective, understand the other. Include the realities of it and the true innocence of all involved. This is only half the picture though. Our NO’s are the other half. We have to be loving AND Powerful to create change. We have to be Yes AND NO. We have to be DISCERNING of when to use either. When we welcome perspectives to the table of people who even passively embrace harm, what is that doing? When I was younger, I was definately in the category of that bigotry pyramid that would make jokes about everyone and everything, mostly the powerless in society, I loved the shock on peoples faces of “ Did he just say that?”. My roommate had a nazi flag her grandfather stole from the war. I encouraged her to hang it up on the wall. I would laugh anytime somebody walked in with a shocked face. I was the embodiment of “ Why so serious?”. I warshiped anarchy. I KNOW I would of loved Jordan peterson and the dark web because those people speak to powerless white men. I wanted power so baddly in this world and I only found it in my ability to laugh at everything anyone took seriously. Fuck, I even hated vegans. My fridge was full of bear sausage and raw milk. Even that gave me false sense of power. None of this was from a place of hating other groups of people, none of it was from my own racist beliefs......but damn was it all racist bigotry! What else could you call it?! It was all bigotry. The taking the wind out of the sails from peoples active attempts of social activism....was HARMFUL! No one in my life gave me a “ seat at the table” to share my “ views” of “ Let’s not take all of this so seriously! Relax everyone!” equally. I have been so lucky to be surrounded by human beings with boundaries. I was evicted, said no to, constantly challenged. What would of happened if I was surrounded by others like me? Others who felt just as powerless, others who felt we took all of this way too seriously? Who knows? I just know as someone who has been on the other side, the darker side, THE NO’S HELPED. Love helped, when people acknowledged the good in me. Encouragement helped. Nurturing the side of me that cared helped. The blatant NO’s sure did help. The evictions helped. Discern , discern, discern, It is completely ok to say no to people whose views fan the flames of harm in this world. Even passively. There is no other way. We can also discern when we gauge someone has grown in the capacity to see beyond passive or active encouragement of harm. If we are ready, we can let them back in. If they show ZERO budge, say NO. Always say NO.
  13. 13 points
    This is like asking, "why do we have kindergartens and pre-schools when we have colleges and higher education?" And the logic here is like saying, "When I was little, I pulled little girls' hair on the playground and kicked dogs in the head, so why stop other kids from pulling girls' hair and kicking dogs?" Hopefully, you can see the absurdity in these questions and false logic. We have the Physical Plane as a launch toward higher planes, not as an alternative to them. We have kindergartens and pre-schools as a launch toward higher education, not as an alternative. If we learned anything from harming others, it is that we need to intervene, step up, and teach those who are harming others now. If an adult has learned anything about his past as a bully and abuser, it is that there is every reason in the world to intervene, step up, and teach other kids not to treat people that way. If you take from this teaching a meh-let's-shrug-our-shoulders-at-atrocities philosophy, you are missing the point of the teachings.
  14. 12 points
    @Philip Wittmeyer I think what that's talking about is the idea that we need to compare our pain and suffering to determine how valid our pain and suffering are. I used to deal with the idea that I did not deserve to feel pain and to suffer because others had it way worse. If ever I caught myself feeling bad about something, anything really, I then condemned myself for that because "Why am I angry/hurt/complaining? I have it better than most. I should be grateful." It led me to keep ignoring and suppressing my actual feelings, while wanting to feel those feelings. I eventually ended up reversing this so that whenever I felt happy and grateful, I would condemn myself: "Why are you happy? Others have it so much worse than you. You don't deserve to feel happy because you are enjoying yourself when others don't even have clean water, healthy food and shelter." In short: I didn't deserve anything. You feel happy? You're being selfish. You feel sad? You're being ungrateful. I brought this up on TLE one time and someone called out the Delusion on me. They told me that I was turning life into a competition of suffering, and that if deserving suffering were a truth only one person in the whole world would ever be allowed to suffer. They helped me see that my fears and experiences were actually valid for me, not less or more than that of others. This was eventually reinforced as I came to study more on the Resource-based Economy and our shift into a Mature Soul Paradigm. I started realizing that if we learn to solve and heal our own issues, and if we learn to enjoy the pleasures of life, we create a sense of replenishment that helps us better reach out to others and help them. How can we ever hope to make a difference if we're focused on every reason we don't make a difference? So I stopped thinking my issues weren't issues, and I stopped avoiding or postponing pleasure until I was "good enough". The same can go with any person or group that has been oppressed- empathizing with others oppression helps you realize you're fighting against oppression, not fighting for a pedestal of righteousness. You create a web of unity and empowerment by saying suffering doesn't define you, choice and healing and thriving do.
  15. 12 points
    @Troubadour I am one of the former active TLE people who hasn't posted in awhile and it has nothing to do with any of the reasons that you have stated. For me, things have changed, life got busy and, now, I just don't have the same amount of time to be as active here on TLE as I once did; just like @Troy had mentioned! I try to stay up to date with the emails that I get from the members that I follow, and when I do sign in, I barely have time to catch up on the newest transcripts sooo, not much commenting happening from me! I also know that when things settle down for me and I have the time to check back in "The Community" will be welcoming again! I thinks it's irresponsible to suggest that ALL the people who were once active on TLE that have not posted anything in the last 6 months is because of, at times, some heated debates that have gone on between Troy and some community members. With all that being said, I have to admit, this community can get pretty heated in certain discussions...not my thing but, to each his own! I will say this though, the man doesn't want any "WHITE SUPREMACIST IDEOLOGY" on his site!!! GEEZ!!! IT'S HIS SITE!!! He is free to feel, think and do what he wants to with the Community that he has Created and Nurtured!! Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree... Cheers Troy -
  16. 12 points
    We already know that we were probably on the other side of many atrocities at some point in our history as souls. But here’s the thing: WE AREN'T THOSE PEOPLE NOW. WE ARE US NOW. We are part of a spectrum of many lifetimes but we are our own lifetime. We are not responsible for the atrocities of another lifetime anymore than we are responsible for the atrocities that others commit in this lifetime. We are responsible for the choices we make NOW and the actions we take NOW. Yeah, our souls are threaded throughout all of those lifetimes but we were not even in existence before this lifetime. If we wish to manifest and align with Essence in this lifetime then that means we can hook into all that our Essence has gained in wisdom and experience and use that to help us make better choices, but the choices of our past lives would still be their own, not ours. So be careful when you say “we have all been there.” No. WE haven’t. The way we evolve is by learning from (remembering) the experiences of our Essence but also from our current choices. Our Essence helps us to not make the same choices over and over again, but we still have a choice. Our Essence doesn’t withhold everything from us that it has learned and just hope for the best with a new personality. Our Essence learns better and better how to be accessible to Personality so that each new lifetime can make more loving choices. This is how we evolve collectively, too. The older souls on the planet act like a source of wisdom or as a collective Essence for humanity and younger souls learn from us. We don’t just step back and withhold our experiences and wisdom as we watch younger souls flail about in suffering and horrific violence. We step up. We intervene. We help. Every evolving consciousness eventually seeks to help other evolving consciousness. That’s what our Essence does. That’s what Michael is doing. That’s what Transcendental Souls do. That’s what the Infinite Soul does. That’s what WE do. For each other. It’s one thing to understand that younger souls might make messy choices because we know our past lives may have made their own messy choices, but we don’t just check out and shrug our shoulders and ignore the mess. We step up. We intervene. We help.
  17. 12 points
    Thanks Troy. Jeff Brown has been one of my favorite spiritual speakers in the last few years because he emphasizes everything you say above in terms of clear boundaries and waking up from the “ new cage” movement of total acceptance. It’s amazing that even a child can grasp the reality of boundaries, speaking up against pain yet so many adults will find a million reasons to not be angry and say NO. Love is not going to solve the problem of white supremecy or any supremecy. It just wont. At least not the form of passive love thrown up as the common solution. I got to the point with veganism last month where I was so exhausted being so angry at everyone who refused any openness to the idea that we no longer need to kill animals for food in wealthy countries. I even fell into a hole, listening to all the arguments , really wanting to understand the other side. There must be SOME thing I am not seeing in terms of why so many choose harm when it is unnecessary. The scary thing is, I don’t think there is. Unquestioned belief is really the only reason any of us choose unnecessary harm. That is not a calming answer. It is an infuriating and almost hopeless answer because there are so many competing information sources to continuously fuel unquestioned belief for centuries to come. This is true for all unquestioned beliefs that lead to mass harm, a bounty of fuel constantly thrown in your face. One thing I love about you Troy is that you constantly trigger that part of me that wants to accept all and live in peace. You are always the one screaming “ There is a fucking fire here! Fuck!” while so many of us in spiritual circles focus on loving the fire and choosing to live around it. All these beliefs that manifest in destructive harm are the fucking fire and it will consume us all if us calm spiritual folk don’t wake up and start saying NO.
  18. 11 points
    What is the point of having reasonable discourse with an unreasonable person? Did you even listen to their conversation? I gave it a good, solid 20 minutes and Candace was spouting alternative facts and logical fallacies the entire time. She's antithetical to history, and reality. If you saw someone outside ranting that the sky was green, would you take time out of your day to debate with them on the actual color of the sky? That's the problem with this concept of "the marketplace of ideas". When people refuse to agree on facts there cannot be any healthy debate. We cannot willingly debate the humanity of black people, we cannot willingly debate racism. You think you're being shut down because people here don't want to hear the "other side". And that's not what's happening. You're being shut down because the only way anyone should listen to anybody is if you're going to build on a foundation of agreeable facts. If we cannot do that, leave me alone! I'm uninterested in having debates about whether Black people face racial discrimination in corporate America. The numbers are there, personal experience is there, the facts show we do. What business do I have sitting down with someone to have an ideological discussion when they can't even agree with me on that? For the sake of what? Do you even know? I'm glad this dude went on her show but he didn't even have to do that. It was clickbait for Candace and hopefully got him some more engagement with BLM NYC. Otherwise, this conversation isn't something that should be touted as a good thing. He lowered himself. That's why people like Candace, like she said in that episode, scream "just debate me! if you believe what you believe why can't you have a conversation!" They want to have these antithetical debates with the "other side". Instead of turning inward and talking to her white male counterparts about racial discrimination that she herself faces as a black woman (her speaking engagement fees are dismally low compared to other conservative pundits) within the conservative political sphere, she's instead arguing with other black people about whether racism is real. If it wasn't so obscene and ridiculous it'd be funny. And yet, this is the person you think is anyone's intellectual equal; someone willing to deny facts, mold reality to fit an agenda, and say incendiary things about race and religion to maintain her status as a token. Unbelievable.
  19. 11 points
    Of all the Black republicans one can find to present a "balance" of perspective, you choose Candace "Hitler-Was-Right" Owens? Come on, dude. When Candace first popped up on the scene, I went to check out her work, because people like you insist that we need to leave our echo chambers and cry about confirmation bias and not "giving the other side a chance." I gave her a chance. I watched some of her Youtube content. In the first video I clicked on, she essentially tried to liken Trump to T'Challa from Black Panther. Telling Black people that if we were so excited to see Black Panther, we essentially had a Black Panther President in Trump. Someone who shared T'Challa's insular and nationalistic perspective. Who ruled the United States as The Black Panther rules Wakanda. And she was dead serious. That's only a small percentage of some of the lunatic leaps in logic this woman takes to try to guilt Black people into voting red. Forget my personal opinion on it, it's absolutely illogical. Like many right-wing talking points. And people like Candace are actually bartering on her being a token in order to get into certain spaces. She was actually a liberal opinion writer only a few short years ago, but after being consistently passed up for sharper, smarter black female voices in the sphere, she overnight became conservative and only then truly began getting traction. Why? So white people like you can have someone to prop up as an example. All of her hard work, being illogical and offensive and ridiculous, culminates in this moment. When someone with more conservative views gets to tout her out as a "gotcha!" card. She's the diversity hire from hell. I've stayed out of this debate for the most part because my days of fighting online with white men are long behind me. At the end of the day when you log out of here, regardless of how attacked and silenced you may feel, you get to return to a world that values you. I cannot say the same. So I must value myself and protect my energy by not engaging. However, next time you're going to tokenize a black woman for an ideological point, please pick a better one for the love of God.
  20. 11 points
    I would like to encourage people to look up Intersectionality, and replace "oppression olympics" with that. The discourse around intersectionality is rich and helpful. @Troy I just want to thank you for every single thing you wrote. It's so well-said and so detailed and I am so tired and so unhappy about other things that I can't respond specifically but DAMN, yes.
  21. 11 points
  22. 11 points
    Uh oh... be careful. This is pure fabrication and speculation that you may have come up with to suit a biased investment in a viewpoint. (like in a previous post where you described this conversation as being full of "fury." -- come on, Michael, let's stop doing that, ok?) But let's break this down... We have not lost 10 members in the past 6 months. In fact, we have gained twice as many or more and we have a lot of great new faces active and engaged. It's wonderful to see! So let's not exaggerate imaginary numbers as a way to boost support for a biased viewpoint. Activity among active members always moves in cycles, so some active members will go quiet and others suddenly become quite engaged. Let's not characterize natural activity flow as a way to shore up biased viewpoints. A passionate conversation about sensitive subjects is not the same thing as people being attacked. So let's stop characterizing adult conversations among adults who are 99.9% incredibly patient and kind and thoughtful as being such a viper pit of horror. When others try compassionately and exhaustively and patiently to help someone understand that they are wrong about a sensitive subject (and yes, people can be VERY wrong about a subject), it is not the same thing as being attacked. So let's stop characterizing people who are doing the right thing as being the same as people who are only invested in being righteous. Members who choose to take a side in favor of people who support, promote or practice bigotry, cruelty, slavery, white supremacy, bigotry, racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, etc. will always be called out in this community because calling out the practice of normalizing and tolerating harm to others is FAR more loving than any effort to protect people who wish us harm. So let's stop gaslighting everyone by trying to convince them they are wrong or bad for drawing up healthy boundaries between themselves and the people who support harm to others. The handful of members who have left in a dramatic tantrum did so because they were invested in their righteousness and not in understanding what is right. They were invested in manufactured victimization that was not limited to this forum but was clearly a pattern in their personal lives, as well, and reacted with disproportionate hostility and great immaturity. So let's not pretend this handful of people represent a problem with TLE. Here is a really good guideline for engaging in topics on TLE. These guidelines aren't unreasonable or hurting anyone. They just make sense. And if you don't agree, that's okay. They are just guidelines. This deserves its own post, but I'm including it here because I hope it helps clear up the confusion that causes some of you to take these conversations as offensive and unwelcoming. 1) Don't defend bigotry and bigots or those who passively or actively support bigots and bigotry. Just... don't. You can disagree and claim that we should love and welcome those who actively or passively harm vulnerable groups of people, but just... just don't do it here. If you want to do the work of protecting bigots from being offended by our healthy boundaries, you go right ahead. Just don't promote that twisted shit in this community or people will call it out. And let's be clear: prioritizing the well-being of those who wish us harm over those who are targets of that harm is some twisted sick shit. If anyone posts about issues regarding bigots and bigotry and you want to defend those bigots and their bigotry, reconsider and just listen. Learn. Listen. Did I mention maybe try to Listen? OR... just ignore it and focus on another topic of your liking. Bigots are not welcome in this community, but they can join. Bigots would never be banned as long as their bigotry is not practiced or promoted here. If you wish to defend and protect bigots and bigotry, just don't expect to win any argument for their protection and acceptance over the protection and acceptance of targeted groups. Sorry. 2) Don't defend, celebrate, or interject justifications and excuses for the mass cruelty, slavery, and slaughter of animals. Just... don't. You can disagree and claim that we have a right to harm, enslave, and slaughter billions of animals, but just... just don't do it here. Most members of TLE eat animals. They are welcomed and loved and accepted here without condition or judgement. The choice to eat animals is your choice for now. That choice is between you and your conscience. We already know there are a multitude of reasons for why people still eat animals. We already know that people are not bad or evil for eating animals and NONE OF YOU will ever be rejected, banned, or judged for your choice to eat animals. BUT... the effort to promote compassion and kindness and awareness about the suffering of animals and the invitation to a greater understanding of the options and consequences of our choices and our diets are just that... an effort to promote compassion and kindness and awareness. These are not personal attacks against anyone. You don't have to give in to your compulsion to explain yourself or defend yourself. Just listen. Learn. Consider. Reconsider. And did I mention maybe try to Listen? OR... just ignore those topics. Find a different topic of interest. But don't ever expect to win an argument in favor of harming animals for any reason. Sorry. BOTTOM LINE: If you think it is somehow offensive to promote compassion and kindness toward vulnerable and suffering humans and animals, and somehow more loving and more evolved to focus on accepting the practices that cause suffering, then... seriously... step back with all of the patience you can muster and listen, learn, and reconsider.
  23. 11 points
    There are too many examples of atrocities throughout history to blame the internet. Every time a new technology is discovered society blames the new tech on societal changes they think are bad. Humans don’t need the internet to be horrible. Hitler rose to power without the internet. The transatlantic slave trade and colonialism happened without the internet. Racism didn’t end after WW2 or with the civil rights movement. This article implies that the internet caused a resurgence of bigotry and that’s just not true. The rise to power of bigoted individuals worldwide and their sanctioning of open hostility has caused the rise in violence as far as I’m concerned. “This is not to minimise the pockets of extremism that do exist—and which may be growing. But we should be precise as well as nuanced with our words. Portraying Australia as an irredeemably racist nation is not a good strategy for bringing communities together. We don’t foster cohesion by apportioning blame to others. We foster cohesion by emphasising our sameness and our shared values.” This is basically the “I don’t see race” defense and the “not all white people” defense that ultimately dismisses the real aggressions and microagressions that POC have to deal with. This is not a solution. It’s an evasion of responsibility of white privilege and speaks to a lack of understanding about issues of race and discrimination. I bet the indigenous folks there would have some things to say about the topic that white Australians and Kiwis should listen to.
  24. 11 points
    @CurvyWords How are we all even still sane? We're being gaslit all the time these days. It's of course not new. It's just reached a new level of amplification. If there's anything good I can say about recent times, it's that I can't use whatever privilege I do have to ignore inequality and injustice any longer. Well, okay, one other thing I can point to is the rise of public servants like Omar, AOC, Pressley, etcetera. The future doesn't lie in faking love and acceptance of assholes, but in the people those assholes want to destroy becoming our leaders. @Troy I support you in your boundary creation and appreciate what you are doing here, in all ways. And yes, if someone supports Trump, they are supporting white supremacy, children in cages, and all the rest of these horrors. What's the German saying, "If you have eight people at a table and seven are Nazis, you have eight Nazis at the table"?
  25. 11 points
    @Troubadour, at any point within the last 3 years I also could have just up and left TLE because I felt attacked, accused, called out, minimized for what I said and contributed. Regardless of TLE's actual intentions, those were the feelings I felt and had to deal with and work through. It was rigorously intense because I did that self-work through major periods of anxiety, stress, grief and turning points in my life. I came to the realization that regardless of how hurt I felt, and regardless of the issues of righteousness or conclusivity I felt others could work on, my reaction was mostly just Arrogance and so my growth could be achieved if I worked more on letting myself be vulnerable, be seen, be scrutinized etc. But I didn't have to let others words and perceptions define me. They're just different perspectives than what I am used to, and most of the time they come from a good place. Even if I was hurt, I could still contribute my perspectives and insights and negotiate without losing who I am to the parts of me I felt were rejected. I agree with you that TLE could use more negotiation. It's great at aiming for safety, but not always so great with negotiation. Regardless I find my greatest power lies in my responsibility, how I choose, what I can control etc. rather than reacting irresponsibly from focusing on how I can't choose and what I can't control. It does, ironically, help me achieve the peace I initially thought others had to provide for me.
  26. 11 points
    Here is good Q&A with Michael to revisit/review in this discussion: From a 10 Questions with Michael – January 11, 2017 Maureen: I hope this isn’t a karma generating question … Maureen: I know of some Michael Students who not only passively and naively support Trump (as in leave it up to “The Universe”) they also voted for him and seem quite sure and even fervent about their choice. I know all is choice but it seems so incongruent to me that anyone could be a Michael Student, or claim to be a Michael Channel, and could support Trump or his administration in any way, shape, or form. How can anyone who is seeking to learn about the expansiveness and inclusiveness of Truth, Love and Energy vote for or support someone who is and will potentially harm so many people? Your comments please. MEntity: This question does not risk Karma. MEntity: We have students who have beaten their children. We have students who have stolen. We have students who harm animals. We have students who have exploited and manipulated. We have students who lie and deceive. We have students who can compartmentalize as a personal means of defense or need that is a priority over compassion. MEntity: Being a student means exactly that: they are students. They are learning. MEntity: Some of you learn faster than others, or learn different things at different times. There will always be a "better" student and a struggling student. MEntity: There will always be some blind spot or evaded topic that a student's Personality prefers not to evolve or touch because this would threaten their world of convenience, sanctuary, familiarity, bonding, etc. MEntity: If we were to refer to our students as students only when they are comprehending our teaching, we would have few to no students. Maureen: MEntity: To respond more directly to your question, however, this is a matter of selective reality. MEntity: We could say that it is selective reception, but in many cases nothing is received. This is not entirely unfamiliar to many of our students in various ways. A reality is constructed to avoid the topic or considerations that are too distracting, too inconvenient, too contrary to local social or intimate climate, etc. MEntity: There will always be students who find a way to contradict or counter basic elements of our teaching despite the apparent study and dedication because there will always be students who have parts of themselves prioritizing preservation over evolution. MEntity: We are not excusing the power of choice as it affects others in a lifetime. When the consequences of a student's self-preservation have impact well beyond the personal circle of reality, it is fair and healthy for other students to respond to this in ways that are as loving as possible, but also as clear as possible in establishing the boundaries that may be violated. MEntity: Love does not ignore reality. MEntity: By "reality" here we mean that which is the more inclusive common ground over the less inclusive. MEntity: In other words, when you know someone has ignored your reality as a means to shore up and preserve their own, Love does not simply "look the other way," but works to include even those who ignore your reality, while making it clear that you do not disappear because someone ignores your reality. Maureen: As you have said... Peace isn't always pretty and it's often messy. MEntity: For our students who know there is contradiction and countering of our teaching in effect from another student, we can only suggest that you put into effect what YOU have learned. This can be one of the most surprising moments for a student because you may find that you are still learning, as well, and this is just another opportunity to practice the arts of Truth, Love, and Beauty.
  27. 11 points
    Sorry, not sorry. No one, anywhere, anytime experiments with negativity and evil. Why? What is the point? The point is to find a better way. That is why we have negative poles and positive poles in the first place to travel across them. Once you find a better way through why the hell would you want to go back. I know you know this. I know everybody knows this. This reason for your argument is a simple cop out trying to justify why our Essence choose this for us. The truth is that we chose this for ourselves. These Personalities. The negativity and evil is all Personalities, do not blame this on some "higher" power, on this subject we are the highest power. In that same vein, we DO NOT have to allow the "less evolved" (hate the term, by the way) to learn the same way we did, is that what parents do? Any teacher, of any kind? No, they try protect us and teach a different way, so that we can learn the things (hopefully) that we are here to learn instead of rehashing the past. It would simply take forever to evolve if we have to learn everything over again, from scratch, without any help, every lifetime. Parents and children, teachers and students, and many other types of relationships enable our individual evolution. In the end, all life on the Physical Plane is about nothing more than each Personality and their ownership of this, our Physical Plane. To presume otherwise is giving power where power does not belong and cannot be utilized. On the other hand, I really do not like when people on this forum point to MEntity as the purveyor of ultimate truth and essentially saying, "They have all the answers." Hoping that Michael will eventually prove them correct or at least one of their suppositions correct justifying the rest of their conclusions. Nothing could be further from the truth. I know that you, me, and everyone else can find truth all by themselves, stand by it, (like shown in the discussion above) and if proven incorrect, be willing to be wrong. A little vulnerability really does go a long way. Otherwise, there are different areas and levels of truth and you can choose and probably should choose to be in a different one. In this one self-responsibility is an ultimate truth.
  28. 11 points
    I am at the intersection of White/Male/Gay so I have a foot in two worlds with a weird mix of having to endure attacks, assaults, bullying, hate, violence, and a constant fight for my rights while also being from a disproportionately privileged demographic. I try to use those privileged parts of my identity to make as much of a positive difference in the world as I can. We vulnerable and targeted groups do a great job of stepping up, but we need our allies and I will always do my best to be an ally to anyone who will have me.
  29. 10 points
    ^THIS. This was something that I learned from this group. It was several experiences that brought it into focus and allowed a re-evaluation of what I thought I knew. When you begin to understand how different identies interact, you begin to see how it affects a life. It would be nice to say there is no hierarchy. But that would be false. Privilage is a thing that exists. If you break it just into the binary of male or female...men have 'more' than women. When start adding all the different intersections of race, sex, gender, sexuality, wealth, immigrant status, etc....things get messy. It becomes so messy that, as straight white American dude, it can seem eaeier to say it's all bullshit and just a stupid competition. That's privillage speaking. Because it is a thing that exists, that the society that we live in has ingrained into us from birth, it is very easy to misuse and abuse without even consciously realizing it. As has been demostrated in this post. It is assumed that Micheal students are here to learn and learn how to learn. Opportunity, has been given for learning here. It is suggested that it be taken. This guy explains it very well from a straight white dude.
  30. 10 points
    Love and inclusivity is not something that can be forced on someone. It is inherently an invitation. It must be accepted. To include everyone on everything will only ever serve to see you stomped to death. It is more loving to have clear boundaries and set an invitation. (as Troy and others have elucidated many times) This invitation has some conditions though. If you are not willing to meet the conditions of an invitation that is always given, then that is on you. I personally believe active love is very much alive in TLE. You may not feel it though as you seem to have chosen to sit on the outside. You do not have to though. Unconditional love is a hard concept. I think it is something we all strive for. However, the nature of our experience is conditional and therefore I think we can only ever experience it in spurts. We must learn to be okay with the nature of our reality. I see a plague of fake unconditional love and only works to hurt people when they find the conditions. The Christians do it and we do it, a lot of people do it. Accepting our nature and the love we can give to ourselves and another is embracing a Truth that is both healing and brings wholeness to ourselves and other. Embrace your expression of love and work to further it. That to me is what these teachings are all about. Learning to choose and choosing to learn.
  31. 10 points
    I think it's safe to say that every Essence has created Personalities who have lost their way and contributed to miserable chapters in the Human story, but I don't think we created the Physical Plane to experiment with evil, because evil is not a universal truth. It doesn't exist for mountains or the wind or schools of fish, only for us. Only when we incarnate and forget our nature are we capable of abusing each other, and evil in the Human context would certainly have been unknown to us at the birth of this universe. I think our intentions were to 'explore and play together', knowing the progression of negative to positive not as 'evil to good', but simply as 'the way'. From Personality's perspective, no one ends and all wounds are healed, but everyone also dies and everyone does get hurt. Maybe long after I die this life will have seemed like a game or a dream, but right now it is no game, and just because our soul and existence is fundamentally safe does not mean our bodies are immediately safe, and the safety of our bodies deserves every bit as much consideration as that of our soul. If we can help it, we should not allow younger souls to learn their lessons the same way we did, because the World Wars and the Holocaust should not be repeated, but there are other ways for younger souls to explore their lessons in a Mature Soul context. Competing to provide housing for the homeless, for example, or making a profit off cleaning the ocean.
  32. 10 points
    @Michael Kinda hard to "enjoy it" when you'd like to idk..maybe not...die? LMAO Like I'm being an asshole but seriously. Like assuming any of us is manifesting Essence 100% and are fully confident and sure that we are fine and somehow transcend the body's fear of death. Assuming we feel consciously unthreatened all the time and are even in a space to "enjoy" the destruction of other people's lives from some lofty, esoteric space. Should we? Like, we're all here to explore, right? If you impede upon my lovely Priest in Flow lessons because you decided to harm me or kill me. It's still uncool, I learned that human beings are capable of destroying one another for various reasons. But, I already knew that. How can I 'enjoy' it? I feel like as older souls we're even less tolerable of these things because I want everyone to get to play. I want to play. I want to explore, learn, know, evolve. You cut that short, we got cosmic beef, I don't care.
  33. 10 points
    This is always helpful for inviting compassion and empathy, and I think it's important to remember this... but it should never be used to encourage shrugging our shoulders and excusing or ignoring abuse and oppression and suffering. NOT that you are doing that, but I'm making sure this insight is taken as an invitation to empathy and not an invitation to apathy. I also think there are some important distinctions to make when we say things like "what we react to with the most passion may be what we are most fearful of within ourselves." For those of us "reacting with passion" by taking a stand for equality and freedom and civil rights, we are not doing that out of reaction to fears within ourselves. We are doing this out of love for our fellow human beings. For those who are "reacting with passion" by taking a stand and trying to destroy the equality and freedom and civil rights of others, they are definitely reacting to fear within themselves. I just want to be clear that passionate reactions and positions are not always generated from fear. And if we were assholes in a past life and learned from that, we bring that knowledge forward and share it and implement it in our current life. We don't shelve it as a way to make room for others to be assholes. Being an asshole in the past doesn't mean we now stand back and let others be assholes. When we were assholes, we didn't have a world full of experienced and evolved populations to help us realize we didn't need to be assholes to learn and grow. NOW we have a huge percentage of the population who have been assholes in the past and can use that knowledge to help us grow collectively away from ever needing to be assholes to each other again. We don't evolve individually in a vacuum. We evolve individually as part of a collective evolution. And what each of us learns, however we learned it, can be shared and implemented in ways that help others to have more options and opportunities for learning without having to suffer or cause others to suffer. Even in a single lifetime, if someone is an asshole or a bully in his life and then realizes he should never have been an asshole or a bully, he can help others NOT be assholes or bullies. He's not supposed to sit back and say, well, I was once an asshole, so... what can I do. Just some food for thought.
  34. 10 points
    @Troubadour, in light of the Christchurch Mosque Massacre, whose occurrence is due in part to the bigoted toxic propaganda of President Trump, I am curious that you would speculate that there might be an appropriate level of racial hatred that a high ranking politician whose office holds the power to grant or withold social financial and legal wellbeing of his constituents, can hold without scrutiny/ accountability. Donald Trump is the inspiration for the revival of White Supremacy around the world, and in light of what has happened in the Christchurch Mosque Massacre, leaving 49 People dead, 39 People in hospital, and multiple people affected for the rest of their lives because some White Supremacist Arsehole decided that Muslims in Christchurch New Zealand were threatening his life, you must be beyond vulnerability of having your human rights witheld or denied, to take your stance on Donald Trump - which is, you can take him or leave him. Your ambivalence and or apathy and or nonchalance regarding Donald Trump's renowned hatred for anyone who isn't White + Male + Heterosexual + Conservative + Christian + Nazi loving is an either unusually ignorant, or a Trump supporting place to be in. Many of us, myself included, are fair game for the bigotry and hatred of White Supremacists. To accomodate for the safety and wellbeing of those who are people of colour, who are Muslim, who are queer, who are trans, who are liberal or radical, would be a positive extension of your humanity for any privilege you have.
  35. 10 points
    It's that time of year again! Scheduling is now open for requested Platforms for 2019! Platform Party is May 11th this year! Ordering in advance ensures I have time to complete all of the requests by the date of the party. NOTE: This is a one-time event each year. Platforms will not be available outside of our Platform Party event so if you want yours for 2019, please book yours in this event. Thanks! DELIVERED VIA PARTY (or email) - A yearly "platform" is Michael's way of describing a theme that Essence will look to extract from any and all experiences over a period of time. Platform cycles tend to be from May of one year to April of the next. They are not predictions but can help you to see how and if you are aligning with the themes of Essence. There is no obligation to align with these themes, and Essence will still gain something from the year regarding these themes of interest, but when you are in alignment, patterns in your life can often make more meaningful sense. This year's Platform Party is on Saturday, May 11th at 1:00 pm -? Eastern via live video/chat via Facebook Messenger. Schedule using the Services Calendar and look for the category of SPECIALS. Then choose May 11th date. You ARE NOT required to attend the "Party" to receive your report. Those who attend the Party will receive their reports at that time. Those who cannot attend will receive reports via email by Monday. HOW TO JOIN THE PARTY - If you are on facebook, you will be invited to a special messenger group that will then be used for the video chat. NOTE - you must be "friends" with me on Facebook to receive an invite. If you are not on Facebook and/or do not wish to attend the party, that's okay! You will still receive your Platform via email!
  36. 10 points
    @Troy I actually love your enthusiasm and seeing allies so engaged and frankly, pissed the fuck off, is a relief. I've gotten to such a shell shocked place with these things that sometimes I need you to come barging in yelling about stuff to really like, grasp what's going on. Thank you!
  37. 10 points
    It really upsets me how easily even the best of people can compartmentalize and justify perpetuating cruelty if it doesn't immediately affect them or if it is too inconvenient to think about. But what truly terrifies me is the people who don't compartmentalize and know full well the choice they are making to actively harm others and they do it proudly and violently. It's something people love or hate about me. Luckily, most of this community is on board and agree that it's better to call out shit even if it kicks up a stink rather than just force a smile and eat it.
  38. 9 points
    In Peggy Orenstein's 1991 book Schoolgirls , she recounts a story. A teacher realized that the girls were being called on far less than the boys. So, in order to be sure everyone was being called on equally, a teacher started alternating calling on both boys and girls. The boys immediately started complaining. Even after the teacher explained they were going down the attendance sheet to be sure the numbers were equal, the boys perceived it as a loss. The boys perceived equality as a loss. But the girls were simply being given room to speak for a change. This is not an isolated example, nor is it restricted to gender, of course. See also: Eakins study on college faculty meetings, Elizabeth Aires on college groups, Elisabeth Bik (Twitter). The idea that being told no to dysfunctional behaviour is not permissible is also privilege in action. But no one is actually losing anything.(apart from the delusion that privilege equals personal merit, which, frankly deserves to die) Space is being made for those who never got to have any, before. Scarcity is a toxic concept and based in lies, where respect is concerned. Space to be heard, helped, respected, honoured. Why would anyone object to this? (Don't @ me, this is rhetorical!) Make some room. There's plenty for everyone.
  39. 9 points
    This session deserves a bumping again
  40. 9 points
    This got me thinking, On youtube...basically every single video posted of the dark web guys like peterson has the title “ Jordan Peterson CALMLY DISMANTLES raging snowflake feminist”. or “Ben Shapiro CALMLY DESTROYS angry trans activist”. From my experience, even having comversations with a few people who really dig these ideas...the common denominator value amongst them is RESPECT. I mean Troy and Me were having a conversation with someone like this concerning veganism the other day and everything he said sounded as if it was written with a calm smirk. He valued respectful banter as he calmly called all vegans weak and unhealthy and attacked appearances. There is this insane idea that tone somehow implies coming from a sincere and true place. That emotional responses somehow implies irrational insanity. How many times have I spoken to someone who has a perspective that is pro harm in some capacity and been told “ You’ll never win me over with that tone “. When I use the tone they prefer “ Thank you for speaking to me in a respectful way . I respect your views” and they go on living and voting the way they have before. Now, I try to aim for conversations that are not screaming matches too. I feel better about such conversations afterwards. I like myself a little more afterwards. I also acknowledge the tone and relaxedness of the conversation has NOTHING to do with whether or not someone is coming from a place of truth. You can be very calm and very wrong. you can be very angry, emotionally charged and very right. Unfortunately, when we expect or demand others are calm and respectful in conversation, we put the job of building bridges ENTIRELY on the person who will struggle far more with staying calm in conversation : the person who is standing up for rights that are not socially accepted as a valid fight. It is very easy for people whose views are reflected by the majority to stay calm. They have nothing to lose. One side only truly feels angry when they do not feel RESPECTED in their views. The other side lives every day trying to look for ways not to be angry, because anger is their default in a world where everything they love and value is threatened by the power of people who have nothing to lose except the feeling of RESPECT. Can we please give the warriors a break when it comes to tone and their anger? Can we listen to the essence of what they are saying rather than how they are saying it? Isn’t the message or truth under the delivery far more important? Listening > Respect As someone who does stand up for the values of animals and choices that include without standing for harm....I do think it is my responsibility to convey my truths in a way that others might hear it , others who may not agree. I also truly GET it when someone does not have the energy for doing that or is OVER it. I also get how important it is to have a space where you don’t feel at war so that you can breathe and remember yourself before stepping out into the world again, creating forms that people can hear if they choose to listen.
  41. 9 points
    This conversation did inspire a new thought for me. And since @Troubadour you mentioned logic it occurred to me to think about this Trump issue logically. And by logically, I mean like mathematically. Someone who says they only support one or two of Trumps policies is still supporting him say at least 20%. Mathematically, they support him. 20% support is still support. Any number above 0% = support. If Trump is in favor of all his policies, then supporting one policy is the same as supporting all his policies because supporting Trump at any number above 0% = support. It's not gray. It's pretty black and white. Either they support him or they don't. Put another way, that they don't support Trump's domestic and economic policies or they support his apparent racism is a logical tautology. Therefore, they support Trump. Even if they only support one thing about him, they still support him. It's not logically possible to say they can support trump and not support him at the same time. It's either they do or they don't full stop. It's been a while since I've done a truth table, but I honestly am curious as to how arguments about supporting trump can be a gray area would shake out in a truth table. The nerd in me is somehow awake before coffee. LOL I also want to say that as a member of a targeted group the argument to be open to the pov of people who want me and people like me to be dead is actively harmful to my well being. Being open to this kind of argument would be self-hating. Racism and bigotry didn't just happen because of Trump. The only thing he's done is inspire folks who have been that deeply bigoted on the down low to do it out in the open like in the "good old days" of Jim Crow. What's truly heartbreaking for me is to see a uniquely american form of racist expression spread to a place I've always thought of as rather peaceful even if they do have their own form of racism there, at least there weren't any mass shootings. It's like 9/11 all over again for me psychically. Something inconceivable happened and the world changed. This to me was inconceivable and now it's exactly clear just how many people in the world openly believe a right wing ideology and how far they are willing to go for it. I can no longer tell myself that maybe worrying about how I would be treated as a POC in a new place is paranoid and I should be more open. It's really really not, and it's safer for me if I am not so open. I've been having these discussions and coping with the bigotry my entire life. I know who these people are and what they are about. I can actually argue their pov for them, I've heard it that often. There's nothing new to learn. There's nothing new to consider. At this point I don't care what their reasoning is for being racist, bigoted, biased, sizeist, sexist, homophobic, ect. Whatever. There actually is only one reason and that is fear. It's not hard to understand. I don't need to coddle that fear, or make excuses for their behavior because of that fear. I don't need to entertain that fear at all. What's more, their minds won't be changed. That's not how it works. The more we try to talk to those folks the more defensive they become and the more they shut down. There really is nothing to say anymore at that point. Reasoned debate is not possible. Reasoned debate about someone wanting me and people like me to die is not possible.
  42. 9 points
    Wait, you do know there is a difference between refusing to host white supremacist ideologists... and creating a cult, right? I hope you know the difference. I'm not trying to be snotty. You compared our establishing healthy boundaries with establishing a cult, so I want to make sure you understand the difference. This isn't about avoiding interaction with those whose views differ from mine. You say this like it's the difference between whether we prefer toast or prefer bagels. We are talking about an ideology that is entirely based on the active effort to destroy my life and the life of those whom I love. This is about saying no to White Supremacy and their supporters and representatives. This isn't about something vague that needs to be debated and discussed and to find common ground. This is about an established movement that wants everyone who is not Christian, White, Male, and Straight to be subservient or dead. You understand this, right? Please do not make me have to explain to you why it is not my job to understand and accept into my personal space a person who supports an ideology that would rather have me dead. And if you are a straight, white, male... Please... PLEASE... consider listening and learning and not feeling compelled to interject from your perspective because you may really and honestly have no clue how bad it is and how important these lines are that need to be drawn. We are constantly hearing from straight white men how we need to settle down and how we need to behave and how we need to make things as convenient as possible... and that's not going to fly anymore. I say that with love, but the time of rolling over to the shaming and controlling is over. Please take this suggestion and insight with love and compassion and understanding because I know you only meant well in your post, but please step back and ask if you truly understand what is happening and what is at stake here. Maybe ask questions instead of criticizing and commenting?
  43. 8 points
    @Troubadour From the content and tone of your posts (and yes, this is written conversation on the Internet, so don't hesitate to correct me if I'm wrong), you seem to believe that people here are either angry or close-minded/dismissive at anyone expressing a different opinion and suggesting different points of view. I believe this is not the case. Participants in this thread are being super open-minded by willingly taking the time to discuss with you, writing very thorough replies and actively engaging in the conversation. Reasoned discussion from both sides is literally what is happening here. You interpret Troy's use of bold and caps as shouting and being angry, but from the context of the thread I think this is simply his way to emphasize a point he is passionate about. You seem to believe being open-minded means being willing to change one's opinion and maybe eventually agree with the other side. I think this is not necessarily the case. I believe what is happening here is that many people in this thread have been experiencing enmity for as long as they have lived because the general culture of, well, the entire world encourages prioritizing certain traits over others, and since humanity as a whole still has a ways to go to get in touch with and grow its kindness, when you're different you're often on the receiving end of name calling, denigration, exclusion and, in worst-case scenarios that still happen today, actual physical violence. They see how many other people are in the same situation as well, and they are tired of it, so they are speaking up against the denigration when they see it happening, all in hope of making the world a nice place to live for everyone. Troubadour, have there been times when you have yourself been unfairly treated because of who you were/are? How did you feel then? How did you respond? This is a real question, not a rhetorical one, and I'm genuinely interested in knowing your answer.
  44. 8 points
    I don't really think whether there's anything redeemable about Trump is even that relevant at the moment. I mean sure, who he is in Essence is a different story, and I suppose it's always possible he'll have a near-death experience tomorrow and suddenly realize what a heel he's been, but as things are? Nah. He does tons of harm, precious little good, and when he does do good it's almost always a way of working around to doing more harm. He shows no amenability to change, and has very little time left in his life to correct course even if he wanted to. I'm as much a believer in the possibility of redemption as anyone, but there comes a point when you have to accept the fact that a person has chosen to be monstrous in this lifetime, and that they're highly unlikely to change before this lifetime ends.
  45. 8 points
    @JeanneS, what @ckaricai has said. I believe that some people are unsalvageably awful. Trump is one of those people. He is the voice of hatred, on loud, at all times of the day. To think that we are being given some lesson from Trump and his henchpeople doing their dirty work, dirty work just happens. There is no message in it, and I don't expect there to be a meaning that I can or would want, to take from it, other than he is here sharing oxygen and space, and he will harm as many of us as he can in his term. Trump is here to serve his own agenda, not anyone elses. I think it is a bit of an extension trying to find some deeper or more expansive message in his acts. He is committing whatever crimes he can get away with, he lacks fundamental integrity. To assign any deeper ideal to him other than screwing around as many as he can and get away with it, is not seeing him for who he is, a Nazi who is commanding the world. There is nothing redemptive about Trump until he is out of the presidential office. I mean good luck finding a return on something redemptive about him... it is not something I would invest my time or energy in.
  46. 8 points
    @Troubadour you are dangerously close to crossing a line, if you haven’t crossed it already. This callous and sarcastic mocking of vulnerable people affected by this subject is really shitty and very revealing of where you are coming from. This is an ugly reaction and it won’t be forgotten by me. As a member of this community, your objections have been duly noted and you have received multiple patient, compassionate, and thorough responses. This is a community where members can get a break and find sanctuary from white supremacists and their supporters. If you can’t accept or understand that, then I don’t know what more to say to you. But I’m asking you kindly and with every compassionate ounce of patience in my Being... that this be the last time you add insult to injury by mocking vulnerable people and their varying degrees of oppression and suffering. As a fellow member of TLE and Michael Student and as a fucking decent human being, stop it. Thank you.
  47. 8 points
    Just to be clear: no one has ever or will ever be banned from TLE for their beliefs. That has yet to happen or to be a problem. My statement about all of this is that people who support White Supremacy are not welcome here. That's a fair statement because they aren't welcome here, but IF someone wishes to be here despite not being welcome and they do the work of trying to understand and grow, I am 100% for all of that. If they argue in favor of White Supremacy or apply that ideology here on anyone, they could get banned. Beliefs can be changed and evolve. I'm all for that. I 100% disagree with this and find this to be one of those dangers of New Age and religious beliefs. To imbue hateful, violent and bigoted people and their hateful ideology with some kind of noble agenda is delusional and really unhealthy. It's like saying your husband who beats you is just doing that to make you stronger. It's a really ugly philosophy to encourage people to think that way. I think that a more balanced and healthy way of looking at all of this is what Michael says about how it doesn't matter so much what happens TO us as much as what WE DO with what happens to us. Trump and his cult are not here to teach us a damn thing. BUT... we can learn from anything. And if we can learn how to transform or dismantle a wave of hate and violence this time instead of excusing it into a holocaust, that would be awesome. Whether Hillary or Trump was elected, we would want to learn these things. The only metaphysical element I can see is what Michael said about how if Hillary had won, the other side might have lashed out in full-blown waves of violence and war, which would have been really difficult to overcome, but with Trump's win they are more appeased and we are able to better manage the flow of our addressing these old wounds in humanity and help encourage conscious evolution through this. So, if anything, these hateful and violent bigots are not here to teach us anything, but we have a chance to teach each other and them. Maybe this sheds some light on how things can get tense for some of the straight white folks in this community. Please hear me out: When you are so used to the luxury of everything only being a matter of opinion, it's easy to think that we should be more flexible and forgiving and open and embracing of differences. But for many, it is way Way WAY beyond being only about differences of opinions. It is about life and death. It's about our differences being showcased and framed in such a way that they are justifications for someone to kill us, refuse us shelter, refuse us a job, refuse medical care, refuse marriage, refuse to sit in a Star Bucks, refuse to bake us a cake, and on and on and on...etc. It can be really hard for some to understand why we don't have the luxury (or the interest) in being open to people and ideas that are specifically aimed at harming others and that those ideas are fully in effect. So if you have ever felt you weren't heard or you were misunderstood in a discussion like this, it might not be because you weren't heard or that you were misunderstood. It might be just the opposite and someone just didn't "agree to disagree." <<--- a favorite White People phrase that let's "both sides be right")) I don't know. But it's worth thinking about. I mean, think about it... I've noticed that in nearly every instance, if not every instance, where the rare conversation gets escalated on TLE, it is because a straight white man has decided that his perspective and position should be the standard, accepted and unquestioned or he says that he is not being heard or taken seriously. We get to hear all about his disappointment and his criticism of this community (and me). We spend days and days giving him and his ideas constant attention and the original topic is completely lost. But... he is the one who wasn't heard? These are the things that People of Color and LGBTQIA+ and Immigrants and many Women have to deal with all of the time, every day, every damn conversation. And I mean, EVERY conversation... We speak up and champion a position and perspective... and it gets completely obliterated by the opinions and perspectives of those who only know the Straight White Man Paradigm. DISCLAIMER: This is a reality that all of us are navigating now, and there are many many woke straight white males and females on board and doing their best to bring about a shift. But even the best of us White People can have blind spots that we really need to bring some awareness to and to rethink and reconsider. Even as a gay man, I have had to do the same thing with my maleness and my whiteness, so this post isn't meant to be an insult or a better-than-you post. It's just important that we take a breath and really think about this reality that we are leaving behind and the new one we want to create.
  48. 8 points
    This question was originally posted by Jon on 10/14/08. From the recent Michael speaks: "No fragment has the capability for self-hate, self-loathing, self-denial, self-condemnation without exploiting the fuel provided by someone else's truths. [...] It is true that all fragments can hold harsh thoughts about one's self, but not for long. The default of sentience is loving. To do otherwise is exhausting, but possible. It is also true that all fragments can hold harsh thought about others, but not for long without exhaustion." If the above is true, then how did self-hate (and the hate of others) originate in the first place? It is my experience that almost everyone has some self-derogatory thoughts/energy. How do they sustain this if it is so difficult? Also, how did it originate between the first fragments to feel self-hate? Is it a natural outgrowth of being in the physical plane? Is this self-depreciation limited to the physical plane? FROM MICHAEL: The seed of self-hatred, self-denial, self-condemnation usually grows out of the self-protection one begins to implement as a means to protect oneself from the 7 qualities of life described by the Chief Negative Features. One begins to believe that it is dangerous to be vulnerable, to be inadequate, to lose things, to lose value, to lack control over time or space, and to change. One is either actively or passively taught how to protect the self from these experiences and one of the most powerful ways to create a false sense of protection is through self-hatred, self-denial, self-condemnation. When the seed is planted actively, it can be obvious where one learns how to hate, deny, and condemn, but often the seed is planted passively through the behavior or good intentions of one you have deemed to have more power than you. This is how the experience of self-hate, etc. originated. For instance, a Mother smacks the hand of a child away from a fire: the child does not necessarily experience the good intentions and love behind the smack, but can fixate on the pain and humiliation of a choice being interrupted. The child may then begin to build evidence, and even test the evidence, that "when I make a personal choice, someone or something will interrupt and cause pain and humiliation." She might either dwindle in her presence in the world, or begin to puff it up and push the boundaries of others so that when people push back, there is the proof that she is "safer" through stifling her choices. The child or young adult and adult then begins strengthening the tools that are assumed are the most powerful methods for protection: pain and humiliation (in this example). The distorted logic and emotion behind strengthening this form of protection is that it is better to keep the hand coiled by one's side through any means self-generated than to have it smacked again by another. The greatest walls of division from the world of danger can come from the enforcement of self-hate, self-loathing, self-condemnation, etc. Hate toward others is a secondary effect. It is simply another form of walling off from the world of danger. Keep in mind that self-hate (and hate), and all of its variations, including self-loathing, and self-condemnation, are all simply distorted forms of intimacy. Hate cannot be experienced without some form of deep (albeit distorted) resonance. Resonance is Intimacy. Most forms of hate describe a craving, longing, and aching for something represented or mirrored in that which is hated, countered by the resistance to that craving, longing, and aching. This is why we say that is it exhausting. And when we describe it as exhausting, we speak in terms that are physical, emotional, intellectual, and spiritual. It takes a great deal of effort and energy to sustain these kinds of walls of protection. One will either retreat as a means to spread that energy thin, but consistently, or one will find a way to remind oneself why it's important to keep those walls up by searching for evidence to rekindle the strength of self-hate, or hate. For instance, one might think she is being brave and open by finally deciding she feels good enough and open enough to date again. Rather than moving into the spectrum of experience that is natural to the realm of dating, which includes a range of feelings and efforts and exploration, she will allow the first disappointment to stand as proof as to why she "doesn't date in the first place," etc. and retreat to exploit this new proof as to why she should never have reached out. We shared all of the above so that you can ponder the more detailed dynamics at work with variations of self-hate and hate, but we will also leave you with the more simplified response: All variations of Self-hate and Hate can be traced back to the battle for SPECIALNESS. Whether actively or passively, many fragments are taught that they ARE Special, or that they SHOULD BE Special. As the child grows in awareness, his or her realization that there is nothing special about himself can cause a lifetime of anger, search, and craving for that ONE THING that makes someone finally identify him or her as Special. This can evolve into a hatred for those who seem to have been identified as Special, or a hatred that creates a false platform of Specialness, such as is the case for a Racist, for example. In terms of self-hatred indicating a craving and distorted intimacy with yourself, the craving is in the desperate wish for your soul or some part of you to come forth and exemplify, or be identified as, Special. A part of you KNOWS you are special and craves to exemplify this and have it identified, but being terrified that the things that are special about you are not enough, are dying, are going unnoticed, will be rejected, etc. And so you hate. And hide. The solution, then, is in the freeing of oneself from the unending, looping math of Specialness, and embracing the wholeness and complete reality of your UNIQUENESS. Uniqueness needs no proof, needs no protection, needs no additional factors. It simply is. Embracing the Uniqueness of others, of course, is a means toward resolving hate toward others. We end on this note knowing that we could continue on with additional details and teaching, but we believe this will help address your questions and to provide some food for thought.
  49. 8 points
    @Troy Love you man. I'm bad at plenty of things and am definitely morally questionable at times, but one thing I am good at is being very mad at Nazis. @Christian YES, thank you for putting that so succinctly. Yes, yes. Once you let them in you have to use violence to remove them. And come the fuck on, no more. @Stickyflames I love your post so much. I have a lot to say about forgiveness bullying, but I'm hungry and agitated and need a shower so it'll have to wait. What I will say right now is that when a white supremacist terrorist (I will not say his name, fuck his name, may his name be blotted out) murdered black worshipers in a church in 2015, the media made a huge deal over survivors using the language of forgiveness towards him. It is their choice to forgive, and I imagine that such a choice is made from deep spiritual convictions. So it's not them I'm responding to, but the media, who were so excited about black people forgiving the white supremacist who harmed them so deeply that that seemed to become the main narrative at times. That serves a bad agenda, as far as I'm concerned. No one wants to deal with righteous anger, they want to pretend that people forgive their oppressors. Sometimes, that becomes a demand. Anyway that's my two cents on it, my kneejerk reaction to that particular media moment.
  50. 8 points
  • Create New...