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DanielaS

NYC Michael Speaks Live: The Art of Discipline

[original date: Mar 25, 2012]

Channel: Troy Tolley

Edited for Clarity

Transcribed by Eric Mielke

 

[MEntity] We are here. We may ask you some questions that will ask of you an answer that may contribute to your understanding of the topic. So if there is somebody who wants to help document these responses, organize this now as we’re working to come through.

 

[MEntity] Because of time constraints, we may have to limit our information today to the dynamics involved with the concept of Discipline. Troy has decided to call this the Art of Discipline, which is appropriate as we see anything that is involving a conscious effort or practice that leads to the evolution of whatever it is that you are practicing to be an art.

 

[MEntity] Asking questions of us is even an art. It is something that evolves with practice. And so it is with your efforts toward Discipline. It takes practice and it evolves in terms of satisfactory results.

 

[MEntity] So what we will do first is talk about Discipline and what that means in our terminology so that you can understand it differently – possibly differently – so that you can apply in a more useful way than you might be doing based on colloquial understanding or current societal understanding. But before we go into that we will ask you a few questions so that you can set yourself up for insight later.

 

[MEntity] The first question we’ll ask you is “Who” – and when we say “who” here, we are speaking in terms of anybody, not necessarily someone you know. It could be a celebrity, but it would be somebody active in your life in some way. So first, “Who in your life makes you laugh? Who in your life helps you to laugh at yourself? Who in your life brings levity to your challenges, indirectly or directly?”

 

[Answer] We can say them out loud if we want to for fun. Anybody interested in that? Well, I will pick people from the room, because Troy and Nick both make me laugh very much and at myself quite a lot. Do I…I don’t have to pick one, it doesn’t really matter, right?

 

[MEntity] That is correct.

 

[Comment] Okay

 

[Answer] Oh I’m next? This is so sad, the only thing that makes me laugh is my cat.

 

[Comment] I don’t think that’s sad at all.

 

[MEntity] We will encourage you to think into a human circle of options. This could be a celebrity even.

 

[MEntity] You are not on the spot, these are questions that, if you cannot answer now, or you feel on the spot, you can come back to or think as we continue.

 

[Answer] I have coworkers I guess that, you know, we laugh, and, you know, we have levity.

 

[Answer] For me, it’s my sister.

 

[Answer] I wrote “Cyprus, my mother, Troy, myself, Kathy Griffen and Lucille Ball. Lucille Ball’s dead.

 

[Comment] She is dead.

 

[MEntity] Being dead or being alive is not a requirement, as long as they are active. And in this case, recordings or episodes certainly can still help to fulfill that.

 

[Comment] Lucille Ball does make me laugh.

 

[Comment] I was just saying today that Cyprus makes me laugh. I was telling Mark. Especially when she’s in distress.

 

6:50

 

[MEntity] Our next question for you, because we know the time is limited, “Who in your life is there no matter what.”

 

[Answer] I pick the same two people.

 

[Comment] Who are the two people?

 

[Comment] You and Troy.

 

[MEntity] Whether you are on good terms, bad terms, ups and downs, and even if that person is not currently active in your life, it is still someone who is there, that if you had to you could contact. You know where he or she is, you know how to contact them, and you know that you can.

 

[Comment] Well, I may have to take Troy off my list in that regard then. (laughter)

 

[Answer] I would say my father.

 

[Comment] Me too.

 

[Comment] Nicki? Paragraph?

 

[Answer] I wrote “my mother, Cyprus, Troy, Christina, and my sister.” If I needed her, I know she’d be there.

 

[Comment] With a switchblade out.

 

[Comment] Oh yeah.

 

[MEntity] Our next question would be, “Who or what circumstances tend to push your buttons, tend to agitate you?”

 

[Answer] I’m gonna pick Troy and Nick! (laughter)

 

[Comment] Circumstances…

 

[Comment] Oh Mark…

 

[Comment] It’s my turn to write a paragraph.

 

[MEntity] Or put another way, “Who or what circumstances pushes you into discomfort at times.”

 

[Answer] Um, I still might go with Troy and Nick, but also work. I get very stressed at work. But, Nick’s finding humor in my stress level earlier does not help with my life, does not make my stress level better. So, I’m sticking with what I have.

 

[MEntity] Of course, these answers may change as you continue to explore these concepts, but this is a start.

 

[Answer] That would be my job as well; the unstable, disfunctional company I work for.

 

[Comment] Bobby?

 

[Answer] I’m going with circumstances, and I said “being taken advantage of or being manipulated,” pushes my buttons.

 

[Comment] Nicki?

 

[Answer] I’m still thinking. Now I feel under pressure, I’ll just say that I wrote, “the neighbors lack of consideration, things not being good enough, people being really selfish and inconsiderate on the train,” really drives me crazy. That’s just…I’m sure there’s more, but that’s what I thought of.

 

[MEntity] We will move on and we will come back to these.

 

10:25

 

[MEntity] First we will talk about Discipline. As you know, we like to share our perspective of concepts as a spectrum from positive to negative in terms of polarities. Discipline can be described as a polarity or spectrum, with polarities of encouragement as the positive pole and reinforcement as the negative pole.

 

[MEntity] Keeping in mind that most of what passes for Discipline in current culture and even in past culture has been on the reinforcement side of things. Often, it is negative reinforcement, such as punishment. But there is also positive reinforcement, such as rewards. If you do something, you will be rewarded. If you don’t do something, you will be punished. Most people tend to then keep Discipline out of their lives, or at least resist the concept of Discipline, because of that emphasis of the negative pole.

 

[MEntity] As you know, the negative pole, for our students who are familiar with our terminology, describes the more limited end of the spectrum, the more restricted end, the more focused end.

 

[Question] Reinforcement is the negative pole you said?

 

[MEntity] Yes.

 

[MEntity] Therefore, when Discipline is being experienced from that negative pole, or taught from that negative pole, or brought into the life from that negative pole, it will tend to be something that you do not enjoy. Not always, some people do enjoy that: the rewards or the punishments. And especially in a Baby and Young soul paradigm, that end of the spectrum tends to work very well. If you are afraid, you will do what you are told to do. If you are rewarded, you will do what you are told to do.

 

And so on.

 

[MEntity] But as the soul grows older, this no longer works, and you would rather just stay away from the concept of Discipline unless you are told otherwise that it can work in your favor from the positive pole. And so what works better for the older soul is encouragement. There is no reward other than the experience itself. You do it because you want to do it. You do it because it evolves you. You do it because it moves you closer to whatever you were aiming for, rather than walking a tightrope between reward and punishment.

 

[MEntity] Discipline is a position in your support circle of twelve, which we will not go into here, but is a familiar concept for our longterm students, and one that can be explored in our recordings or teaching elsewhere.

 

[MEntity] There are twelve positions in your life that are always present as a form of support for you. These positions are played by other fragments who are active in your life. When you resist those positions, when you keep them from being fulfilled, when you do not allow the familiar fragments to step in and play those roles for you, then circumstances tend to fulfill those roles.

 

[MEntity] As Discipline is basically a process of learning how to choose, then what will tend to happen, if you do not have a person in your life who is being encouraging or helping to provide structure, then you will tend to find yourself in circumstances that will push your buttons, that will challenge you, that will push you into a position where you become acutely aware of the process of choice.

 

[MEntity] And we have used a simplistic example of standing in line behind somebody who is taking their time counting out their pennies and their coupons, and the frustration of standing and waiting. In that moment of agitation, you are experiencing the position of Discipline active in that moment. You are now in a position to make the choice to leave the line, to speak up and cause a scene, or to simply patiently wait. So the experience in those instances is an experience of acute awareness of the process of choice.

 

[MEntity] For a lot of older souls, this is the only Discipline they have, because it is a passive form of Discipline. It just shows up, and it pushes your buttons, and it keeps you acutely aware of that process of choice. Those who are the least disciplined tend to have the most agitated experiences. Or those who have passively accepted the negative pole of Discipline will tend to draw those experiences in, so that it is always black and white, negative reinforcement or positive reinforcement.

 

[MEntity] Do you understand so far?

 

[Answer] Yes.

 

17:35

 

[MEntity] So to bring your consciousness to the process of Discipline means becoming active in the process of choice. Keep in mind that the whole point of Discipline and its reason for being in your support circle is because it is the very thing that helps to support your experience of freedom.

 

[MEntity] Freedom and Discipline do not exist without each other. There is no such thing as freedom without structure. If you think about freedom without structure, you are thinking about a person free-falling. Yes that person can flail about as freely as they would like, but that is not quite the idea of freedom that most people think of when they are seeking freedom or would like to experience it. There must be something to hang on to, there must be structure, there must be parameters.

 

[MEntity] So Discipline helps to shape the space in which you experience freedom, to shape the space and the time in which you experience freedom. This is why it is so important. When you do not have that structure, then you do not even recognize most of the time that you are so free, that you are capable of that freedom or the experience of that freedom.

 

[MEntity] We will go further in this context to describe freedom as not being a slave to your emotions, not being a slave to time, not being a slave to your environment. In other words, Discipline frees you to make a choice that overrides anything else that you would normally find to be controlling you, such as your emotions or your anxiety.

 

[MEntity] The circuit that must be understood for Discipline to work well in your life, begins by understanding that Discipline is an external process first and foremost. Discipline does not start internally. It works its way inward. Therefore, it takes your active effort in the world external to your consciousness to begin that process of Discipline, to begin that process of shaping the space and the time for your freedom. It is an active process.

 

[MEntity] Once you have put into practice that external component, it begins to then become internalized so that it is no longer an effort. It is a part of you. It becomes an internal process. This is often seen by those who are wishing to become more fit and the process of exercising or putting into effect a routine of exercising. It does not happen from within. You must go to the gym. You must stand up. You must get up and move. You must take those steps first. Then it becomes a part of you.

 

[MEntity] There are some concepts that start from within and then become more evident externally. In this case, it is something that starts externally and becomes an internal reality. But you must take those steps to do as a way of implementing Discipline. And when you do that, in general, it must come through the process of encouragement, not necessarily reinforcement through reward or punishment.

 

[MEntity] However, in the same way that concepts that you would like to bring into your life anew begin internally or externally, so do the negative poles of a concept have to be processed first before moving into the positive pole. So when you begin the process of Discipline, when you begin the effort, you will begin from the end of reinforcement. You will have to have a sense of reward and punishment at the beginning.

 

[MEntity] It usually works better for the older soul to use a reward reinforcement. So that if, let’s say, you are interested in exercising, that if you do your exercises for the day, you get to have a treat. This is positive reinforcement. This is not where you would like to stay, because then if there are no treats for that day, you may not implement the Discipline.

 

[MEntity] So you must move into encouragement. And by encouragement, again we mean doing it for the sake of doing it. It is its own reward. And that means that when you go to exercise, you start to recognize that it is a value in itself. It is the treat, or whatever it is you are disciplining yourself to do.

 

25:12

 

[MEntity] Discipline is — we were originally speaking about it as a circuit — a circuit between the emotional and moving centers, or the inspirational and the action. These two components are the energy that must be in motion for Discipline to continue. In most cases, the reason you seek the process of Discipline is because something has inspired you to do so. You would like to lose weight, you would like to become fitter, you would like to whatever it is that would require Discipline. You are inspired to do so, and then you must take the action. And as you take the action, then the inspiration will show up again in different levels. And that cycle will continue. The more you do, the more you are inspired.

 

[MEntity] That is very important to understand if you are going to actually practice the art of Discipline. It does not happen just because you are inspired. You must do. And just because you do, or rather when you do, the inspiration will become amplified. As that becomes amplified, your action becomes amplified and easier. Keeping that cycle going helps you to stay disciplined.

 

[MEntity] This is supported by…let’s use a visual of a triangle so that at the foundation of your Discipline is action. That is the most important element of Discipline is the action. You must do even when you do not want to do. At the top of the pyramid or the triangle is the inspiration, because this is what you are aiming for. This is why you are implementing the Discipline in the first place. However, the sides could be described as being supported by the intellect and the assimilation, or the expression and the neutral.

 

[MEntity] What this means is, in the process of the cycle of being inspired and doing – amplifying your inspiration, amplifying your doing – you must have some sort of plan, and that would be where the intellect comes in. You must have a plan. If you are going to practice the art of Discipline, it helps to have steps. It helps to have a path mapped out. This path can change. This path can be updated. It can be flexible, but you must have at least a few steps in mind as to where to go. If you do not have this, then you will not be able to reach, or continue, or sustain that cycle between the inspiration and the action.

 

[MEntity] The assimilation side of the triangle is your comprehension or your digestion of the experience. In other words, when you get to step two, you must recognize it, you must assimilate, omprehend what you have done, give yourself credit, allow yourself to enjoy that process. Or, if you’re still at the negative end of that Discipline, allow yourself that reward. The assimilation side can be said to be the flexible side. You have to have that along with the structure or the plan.

 

[MEntity] Are all of you following this?

 

[Answer] Yes.

 

30:15

 

[MEntity] When we asked you your questions earlier, we asked them because in the circle of support that we have as part of our teaching, there are twelve positions. That circle of twelve is basically groups of three, because one of the ways – or rather the only way – in which evolution occurs is through the triadal process, which is also why we described the pyramid or the triangular visual so that we can make this point: that it is a process of three. There are always three sides or three elements that perpetuate or evolve a process.

 

[MEntity] So in the circle of twelve, your Discipline support position is flanked by a Humor position and an Anchor. If you wish to implement Discipline in your life, it can help you to recognize where the Humor is in your life – or the sources of Humor in your life – and the Anchor in your life. This helps you when you are having difficulty remaining disciplined.

 

[MEntity] Those support positions, your Humor position and your Anchor position, will help you to laugh at yourself, or to laugh. When the difficulties of implementing Discipline may seem overwhelming or daunting, turn to your Humor as a way to not lose your footing. This would be the equivalent of the intellectual side or the expression side of the same triangular visual. You must have Humor as a part of that process for you to truly be disciplined, to truly be experiencing it as an art.

 

[MEntity] And you must have an Anchor. The Anchor is that neutral space that you can turn to that you know will not judge you, or that if the person does judge you, is doing so as a form of support in some way. So whoever was identified as Anchor can be turned to, not necessarily to be actively involved in your endeavors, but simply turned to to talk to, to ask for advice, or even to be thought of as an example to help you keep your focus.

 

[MEntity] The Discipline itself would be the base of the triangle. So those circumstances that push your buttons, let those help in being supportive of your capacity for not being ruled by your emotional reactions, not being ruled by reactions at all, freeing yourself from those moments where the process of choice has become extremely acute.

 

[MEntity] As you are implementing the art of Discipline, because that is the base of your triangle, so to speak, that is going to be what you will see the most, that is what you are going to come across the most: the challenges to your capacity to choose. So it is in those moments that you, in making a conscious effort, can say, “Yes I will get up off the couch even though I do not feel like it, because I am not ruled by how I feel. I am ruled by my capacity to choose. I am free to choose despite how I feel. I am free to choose despite the limitations I experience in terms of time or in terms of environment.” You can work around it, you can work with it, but you are not ruled by it.

 

[MEntity] As we said earlier, at the top of your triangle was the inspiration. In this case that would be you. Where Humor, Discipline at the bottom, and Anchor on the side, you are at the top. You are what is being supported. And ultimately you are the inspiration, because inspiration, which is different from Discipline, is something that is generated from within. However much you may think it is external because you see it outside of you and something else inspires you, it is because it is a reflection of something that is potential within you, that you’ve already recognized as a part of you.

 

[Comment] I think that’s one of the greatest things that you’ve said. I remember that from before.

 

[MEntity] Yes. Inspiration is never generated externally. It is reflected externally, but it is always a reflection of that which is already internal, or a part of your capacity or potential. Not always is it understood. For instance, there may be an inspiring artist that you love or find to be encouraging, but it does not necessarily mean you are supposed to replicate that person’s art or path, but to find what it is within that is artistic, for example.

 

37:48

 

[Question] I have a question. So, I understand that Discipline is the base of the triangle. So your Discipline position, like who is in that position for you, how does that apply too?

 

[MEntity] If you have identified an actual person…we started off our questions for you in terms of the Discipline base of the triangle, asking you about circumstances, because those are most likely what you will comes across as you are trying to implement your efforts towards Discipline. It’ll be more circumstantial. However, if you know of a person who is in your life who helps to provide you with structure – who helps remind you of the importance of what you are doing, helps to remind you of the point of what you are doing, helps to remind you of the next steps – that individual can be turned to then for help in keeping your choices in order.

 

[Question] Well, I already know Nick plays my Discipline position. He’s just a vacuuming gestapo mostly. So how does that really apply? He is a button-pusher, that’s for sure.

 

[MEntity] We used that angle on that question because, as we said, that is what you will come across when there is no one around. Often it is because of those circumstances that you do not make the choices that you wish would contribute to your Discipline, but rather you fall out of Discipline because of circumstances. So it is important to understand that it is not just a person, but circumstances in this case that you will have to contend with in that process of Discipline. However, if you do know your Discipline position, that would be someone you can turn to to ask you to help make a plan, to help you to stay on track, to be your accountability partner, for instance. Do you understand?

 

[Comment] I think.

 

[MEntity] So it is not necessarily that they will push your buttons. That is the circumstantial side. However, the person who plays that role in your life can be the person who helps bring the structure to your plans, to help keep you on track and to help keep you responsible and accountable.

 

[Comment] Okay.

 

[MEntity] So that might be the person you confide in to say “This is what I plan to do, can you help me stay on track? Can I report in to you?”

 

[MEntity] If you look at what we described, these are the elements that are what makes certain organizations successful in their endeavors because they implement these things…such as weight watchers or other fitness programs.

 

[MEntity] We use those as examples because they are quite difficult for a lot of people to implement and they epitomize to a great extent the examples of the obstacles to the art of Discipline. But they are implementing these elements that we have described and that is why they can be successful if the person who is pursuing them stays on track. They may not describe their program in quite the same way, but all of those elements are still there.

 

[MEntity] Understanding this or hearing what we have shared with you today, is just the beginning of putting into effect the art of Discipline. We understand that this is an intellectual sharing and a sharing of information, and you may take it and set it aside and forget about it. But if you take it and work with it, if you look at the components that we have shared with you and keep in mind the polarities and keep in mind that cycle of inspiration and action, you can accomplish or aim towards pretty much anything that you wish to accomplish or aim for, even as an old soul who is quite tired.

 

[Personal Q and A section omitted due to privacy]

 

43:11

 

[MEntity] This prompts us to add one more element: that the greatest pitfall for all of you in the process of implementing the art of Discipline is comparison. You can defeat yourself faster than you can even begin if you start from a place of comparison. It is very difficult to sustain the cycle of inspiration and action if you are comparing yourself to those who are already successful or who exemplify your aim. It is one thing to see them as inspiration and quite another to compare yourself. So we want to point that out that comparison is not necessary as a part of your process

 

[MEntity] For instance, in your pursuit of being a singer, if you compare yourself to other people, or compare yourself as to your age versus another, or your style versus or another, or your anything versus another, you are whittling away, chiseling away at your foundation. And you more often than not, will undermine your effort if you use that process of comparison.

 

[MEntity] The other thing your comment prompted was a question to ask each of you that, in our description of Discipline, “How often do you feel you have used the negative end for your life versus the positive end?”

 

[Answers omitted]

 

[MEntity] You have just pointed out what we shared at the beginning of our session with you. Your culture tends to identify Discipline as a reward/punishment system, whereas the positive pole of Discipline is doing it for the sake of doing it, for the pleasure of it. It is not something that is necessarily tied to any reward or punishment. Therefore, it is important to understand that Discipline is always, and always will be, and always has been, a part of your life. It is that spectrum between reinforcement and encouragement.

 

[MEntity] We will say that as you work through the spectrum of Discipline, it starts from the negative pole, from the end of reinforcement. So when you are being raised, it is important to understand cause and effect. It is important to understand the reward and the punishment. That is a healthy way to introduce children to the concept of Discipline.

 

[MEntity] As you grow older and you begin to develop your own sense of your capacity to choose, then you must be able to choose or make choices based on your own system, your own compass, your own desires, your own parameters. If you fall back on a reward/punishment system that was defined by somebody else, you have locked yourself into somebody else’s paradigm for your life. It is not necessarily that you have to get rid of that, but you must grow beyond it. You can include it, but it does not have to be the same exact structure.

 

[MEntity] For instance, the things that were important for you to understand as being right and wrong as a child become second nature as an adult. It makes sense to you that you don’t put your hand in the fire. It is not a matter of reward or punishment, it is simply just true.

 

[Comment] The reward is not being burned.

 

[MEntity] However if you live in fear of fire, because you were taught to be afraid of it as a way to protect you, then you are locked into a pattern that is not necessarily helpful or healthy. So as you grow older, you must eventually – and we say older not only in terms of physical growth, but your essence’s growth as well – you must eventually move toward the positive pole so that you are making choices based on encouragement rather than fear.

 

[MEntity] Discipline is a part of your life every single day, whether you are aware of it or not. In the same way that Humor is a part of your day every single day, whether you are aware of it or not. It is always there. All of the positions that we describe as your support circle are there every single day: Love, Knowledge, Compassion, all of the twelve support positions. And for the sake of this session, Humor, Discipline, and Anchors are there every single day, whether you recognize them or not.

 

49:18

 

[Comment] I just want to bring up one other thing. I think I’m understanding it correctly, but I don’t think it can be emphasized enough the importance of that at some point in one’s development, even when you first start learning right from wrong, positive and negative reinforcers, whatever…but at some point along the journey if you’re not told you can choose, or if you are not encouraged to choose, or if you don’t learn to choose, I think maybe you’ll never develop a natural affinity towards something.

 

[Comment] For me, case in point, I’m a person who doesn’t necessarily like to read, and hearing what they were just saying about you start off with our parents giving you these sets of values. I wasn’t necessarily read to as a child, but I was very intellectual and I read. But really all through high school, and even up through college, I would say ninety-five percent of the time I read because it was required reading for school and for education. So I didn’t read. I mean, I read comic books.

 

[Comment] But I read because someone else was telling me there was something to be gained from reading, and I never developed this innate love for reading, which as an adult…you know, all my friends, all my coworkers: “What’d you do this weekend?” “Oh I went and got to read my new book.” And I’m like, “That is the last thing I would want to do is pick up a book.” That’s like the last form of like therapy or pleasure for me. And it’s because, at some point along the way, when I should have realized, “you can now turn it over and you can choose to read,” I never made it a choice to read. It was always about positive and negative reinforcement.

 

[Comment] And so I think that’s very important, in terms of Discipline: to realize or to have someone share that with you at some point, that you can now start making the conscious choice to love things or not love things.

 

[MEntity] Your point is valid, and that is part of the growing up process, especially for those who go through the 4th internal monad of developing their own identity. That is a part of a rite of passage in every life. If an individual chooses to take that rite of passage on, they will be able to go beyond their programming. As a part of the perpetuation of your species, your first many years, up through the 3rd internal monad, you are receptive to imprinting, because knowledge has to be shared with you as a way of evolving the species. Everything that is known is then programmed into you, and then what you do with that is up to you.

 

[MEntity] Many people do not go beyond their programming. They live within the confines of what has been taught to them. When you go through the 4th internal monad, you go through a process of keeping what works for you and expanding beyond that through your own capacity to choose, through your own capacity the shape yourself and to move forward in your life.

 

[MEntity] And so your point is valid and is relevant to the topic. That is Good Work.

 

[Comment] Heh. Score for you. Now it’s ten after five.

 

[Personal Q and A omitted due to privacy]

 

[Comment] It’s twenty-five after.

 

[MEntity] With that we then will conclude and say goodbye to each of you.

 

[All] Goodbye. Thanks.

 

[MEntity] Goodbye.

Edited by DanielaS
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Juni

"Discipline frees you to make a choice that overrides anything else that you would normally find to be controlling you, such as your emotions or your anxiety."Yes I will get up off the couch even though I do not feel like it, because I am not ruled by how I feel. I am ruled by my capacity to choose. I am free to choose despite how I feel. I am free to choose despite the limitations I experience in terms of time or in terms of environment.”

I have been having this argument with a few people, who say, "I don't feel like it" and expect that to be the end of the discussion, and I've been countering that how you feel doesn't really have anything to do with whether the cat needs feeding, or the dishes washed. Nice to have some back up from the Ms on this!

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Uma
On 5/19/2016 at 0:29 AM, DanielaS said:

[MEntity] Freedom and Discipline do not exist without each other. There is no such thing as freedom without structure. If you think about freedom without structure, you are thinking about a person free-falling. Yes that person can flail about as freely as they would like, but that is not quite the idea of freedom that most people think of when they are seeking freedom or would like to experience it. There must be something to hang on to, there must be structure, there must be parameters.

 

[MEntity] So Discipline helps to shape the space in which you experience freedom, to shape the space and the time in which you experience freedom. This is why it is so important. When you do not have that structure, then you do not even recognize most of the time that you are so free, that you are capable of that freedom or the experience of that freedom.

 

@Wendy RosnerThis session has some of what I was thinking about re your sleep post

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Luciana Flora
On 19/05/2016 at 1:29 AM, DanielaS said:

 

[MEntity] The first question we’ll ask you is “Who” – and when we say “who” here, we are speaking in terms of anybody, not necessarily someone you know. It could be a celebrity, but it would be somebody active in your life in some way. So first, “Who in your life makes you laugh? Who in your life helps you to laugh at yourself? Who in your life brings levity to your challenges, indirectly or directly?

When I read that question I immediately remembered my father. My dad has a great mood. And I really think he always made everything lighter.

 

On 19/05/2016 at 1:29 AM, DanielaS said:

[MEntity] Our next question for you, because we know the time is limited, “Who in your life is there no matter what.”

I have to say I'm having trouble answering that question. Unless my parents are in this position I would not know who to relocate here. Because in my relationships outside of my parents none of them I feel this security .. There was a time ago there would be a person who would put in that position. But I was wrong. Now I have no idea what to put here.

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Wendy
On 5/19/2016 at 0:29 AM, DanielaS said:

[MEntity] For a lot of older souls, this is the only Discipline they have, because it is a passive form of Discipline. It just shows up, and it pushes your buttons, and it keeps you acutely aware of that process of choice. Those who are the least disciplined tend to have the most agitated experiences. Or those who have passively accepted the negative pole of Discipline will tend to draw those experiences in, so that it is always black and white, negative reinforcement or positive reinforcement.

 

[MEntity] Do you understand so far?

 

Only too well.  Discipline has always seemed a bit of a dirty word for me, though at times in my life I seemed incredibly disciplined.  I sustained a daily meditation practice for many years, which I loved, and it was inspiring.  A few years ago I exercised 5x a week, and sustained that for 1 1/2 years and friends would remark on my discipline which was bizarre to me because of how I see myself as hating discipline.  So it's been a love/hate rebellion roller coaster.  Just thought too when I was young I particularly loved practicing scales in my music study. 

 

I've been feeling lately like I need more support in my life and it would be particularly helpful to learn more about the support circle for this.  I think I tend to first reject support, and only when I see I really can't do without it will I seek it out.  I realize that not having support is a total fallacy and rejecting it until I'm on my knees is a choice I've made.

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KurtisM

The number one source of discipline for me is my mom.
Luckily, I'm also in her discipline position too so the feeling is mutual. ;)
 

In more detailed terms I think she's in my Discipline and Compassion positions- and I fill her Discipline and Child positions.

This session made me realize how often I use discipline & fill that position in others lives. Far more than I do of Anchor or Humor. I mean when it comes to this triad, I'm the one correcting and reminding people to "do their chores", "show their work" and "chop chop STRUCTURE please!"
In retrospect... I also do that to myself a lot. Maybe I should step back from all the self-pressure.
I'm happy to know the discipline actually serves something useful though, and can be transformed into a resource.

Other sources of discipline have been some of my teachers, my deceased grandpa (who I thought was obnoxious), my boss & two friends that constantly keep me on my toes about how I treat them (both of whom I don't really hang out with anymore).
However I'm glad to see discipline isn't always so prickly and can be about accountability too. I plan to create room for people who are excited about exchanging measures of accountability with me.
 

This session also made me think of my Humor and Anchor positions, since I often set those aside as less important to or literally drown them out with voices of Discipline.

I think I'll look more deeply into how I fill these positions for others. Perhaps I fill them more often than I thought, and just haven't given myself credit/value in these arenas of life.

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KurtisM

https://allpsych.com/psychology101/reinforcement/

 

This blog post describes Discipline from a psychological angle, both the types and the schedules.

It kind of angers me though really... the last 20 years of my life have been lived under Young Soul notions of Discipline, and the way that our society and economy discipline people to the point of "making" us soulless corporate drones has been a major source of contention for me through my adolescent defiance against maturity, and my current aim for participating in a global revolution as a young adult.

 

As I move more and more toward Mature Soul Discipline through personal pace, accountability, conscience and paths of personal happiness, I am discovering that Discipline no longer has to be tough and stressful. It can be fun! When mixed with humor that is, and replenished with anchoring self-care.

It will be interesting to see how the world reacts to this shift in Discipline through our Century of Choice as we transition away from Consumerism, Capitalism, Corporatocracy, Complacency and Authorities doing things for us or telling us what we must/should do. I imagine that will take full swing when we shift into 2nd Level Mature: which is a level of balance between Young and Mature Soul concepts, and how to find and create stability in that contrast/comparison.

 

 

EDIT: Oh also we should totally have "Art of ___" transcripts done for each support position. This was immensely helpful for me in owning Discipline, rather than fighting it.

 

Edited by KurtisM
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NickF

@KurtisM They reference BF Skinner and the stimulus response approach. I remember that from Psychology back in college. I also remember reading how screwed up the daughter of Skinner turned out after he raised her applying his concepts. We recognize the Young Soul notions of discipline as falling short to say the least. I think you’re right, Kurtis, they try to shape people into drones that feed the corporate machine. 

 

Agree too that an Old Soul can approach Discipline as fun. In reading through the session above, the Michael quote I posted below jumped out. Looking back on life, I can say this has been my history. The Old Soul approach Michael describes fits us. The reward being the gathering Old Soul experiences. We want to do it “because it evolves you.” I love this.

 

 

MEntity] But as the soul grows older, this no longer works, and you would rather just stay away from the concept of Discipline unless you are told otherwise that it can work in your favor from the positive pole. And so what works better for the older soul is encouragement. There is no reward other than the experience itself. You do it because you want to do it. You do it because it evolves you. You do it because it moves you closer to whatever you were aiming for, rather than walking a tightrope between reward and punishment.

 

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avi

Whew this has been a big struggle for me the past few months!! Very much needed this perspective thank you for passing along @CurvyWords

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