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The um suggestions box extended remix for people who have voted for their celebrities already on Cong


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Hey. Me again. Um there are still some excellent people who haven't been put on Cong's 25 Celebrities list and this little list is an extended remix chance for those of us who keep on thinking of celebrities but who have voted 3 times already and are officially now excluded from attempting to sway votes in any significant way. Here is our support group and infiltration angle. If these ideas that we suggest here in this benign but potentially influential format, can influence those who are still undecided and apathetic about who has been suggested so far, this is your inspiration list. So go forth and shoot the breeze. You probably won't get your choice on the list in any big way, but no one ever won lotto with that attitude...

By the way you can submit infinitely here, so do your best. 

 

Anna's choices

 

Robert Plant - Old Sage Artisan cast, 5th level, C1E4 (my estimation)

Gary Larson - Old Artisan Sage cast 5th level c1E5 (my estimation)

Tilda Swinton - Old Artisan, King Cast, 5th level, C1E3 (my estimation)

Leisha Hailey - Old Artisan, Sage Cast, C1E7 (my estimation)

Jennifer Beals - Old Priest, Artisan cast, C1E4 (my estimation)

Jeff Bridges - Old Warrior, Sage cast, Old 5-6 C1E2 (my estimation)

Steve Buscemi - Old Artisan, Scholar cast, Old 5-6 C1E2 (my estimation)

Uma Thurman - Old Artisan, Scholar cast, Old 4, C1E4 (my estimation)

Jon Turturro - Old Artisan, Scholar cast, Old 4 C1E7? (my estimation)

Margaret Atwood - Old Artisan, Sage or Scholar cast, Old 6 c1E3 (my estimation)

Tracy Chapman - Old Artisan, Priest cast, Old 4 C1E7 (my estimation)

Melissa Etheridge - Old Warrior, Sage cast, Old 2 C1E7 (my estimation)

Amy Poehler - Old Sage, Warrior or Server cast, Old 5 C1E2 (my estimation)

Rashida Jones - Old Artisan, Server cast, Old 3 C1E2 (my estimation)

Carrie Brownstein - Old Sage, Scholar cast, Old 5 C1E2 (my estimation)

Fred Armisen - Old Artisan, Sage cast, Old 5 C1E2 (my estimation)

Maya Rudolph - Old Sage, Artisan cast, Old 4 C1E2 (my estimation)

Kirsten Wiig - Old Sage, Artisan cast, Old 3 C1E2 (my estimation)

Nick Offerman - Old Warrior, King cast, Old 4 dunno

 

 

Edited by AnnaD
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David Byrne - Talking Heads channelled by someone other than Troy as Mid Mature Scholar cast Artisan..

Michael Palin - Monty Python - Server cast Artisan Old (my estimation)

Terry Jones - Monty Python - Sage cast Warrior, Old (my estimation) I love this guy

Graham Chapman - Monty Python - Sage cast Artisan, Old (my estimation)

Spike Milligan - Artisan cast Sage, Old 5 (my estimation)

Shirley MacLaine - Sage cast Warrior Old 5 (my estimation)

Ronnie Barker - Warrior cast Sage Old 5 (my estimation)

Eric Morecambe - Old Sage (my estimation)

Peter Sellers - Old Sage (my estimation)

Lucille Ball - Old Sage (my estimation)'

Carol Burnett - Old Warrior cast Sage (my estimation)

Jemaine Clement - Old Artisan cast Sage (my estimation) (flight of the conchords)

Brett McKenzie - Old Sage cast Artisan (my estimation) (flight of the conchords)

Glen Robbins - Old sage cast Artisan (my estimation) (Kel from Kath and Kim)

Jane Turner - Old Sage, Artisan cast (my estimation) (Kath from Kath and Kim)

Gina Riley - Old Sage, (my estimation) (Kim from Kath and Kim)

Magda Szubanski - Old Server cast Sage (my estimation) (Sharon from Kath and Kim)

Peter Greenaway - (Pat's suggestion) Director and Writer of many excellent 80s movies

Neil Young - Priest cast Artisan mid mature (my estimation)

Nick Cave - Old Priest cast Sage (my estimation)

P J Harvey - Old Sage cast Artisan (my estimation)

Gillian Welch - Old Artisan (my estimation)

Frazey Ford - Old Sage cast Artisan (my estimation)

Ry Cooder - Old Artisan, Priest cast C1E4 (my estimation)

Wim Wenders - Old Artisan, C1E4 (my estimation)

Neil Finn - Old Artisan, King cast (my estimation)

Eddie Vedder - Old Artisan (my estimation)

John Hughes - Old Sage (Director writer Breakfast Club, Pretty in Pink)(my estimation)

Steve Martin - Old Sage (my estimation)

Paul Simon - Scholar cast Artisan Old (my estimation)

Vita Sackville West - Scholar cast Artisan, early mature (my estimation) who (my estimation) was ET's with

Virginia Woolf - mid mature Artisan, Sage cast, (my estimation)

Anjelica Huston - Sage cast Warrior Old (my estimation)

Angela Davis - Old Warrior cast Priest (my estimation)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by AnnaD
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Maxim [memorial profile]

I have not voted but would consider selling my vote for the right price.

 

@AnnaD  For another estimation.  Paul Simon artisan cast SAGE, 5old.  That guy is very cardinal IMO--he can hold a lot of space.  Whereas his old partner Garfunkel seems more scholar cast ARTISAN.  In any case, I am impressed by your list.  In a few minutes my son and family will be on Quantas, destination Christ Church, NZ.

 

 

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Love your list gal!

Have to study closer BUT just have share my chills of recognition around Tracy Chapman!

 

I think you're spot-on! She reminds me sooooo much of my flatmate - Priest-Cast Artisan from our Entity :D

 

Dunno about Age Level, have no feel for that, but yup, I think that's that.

 

(Don't know half of the peeps... I suck at people ?...)

 

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michael_k

I think Susan Sarandon would be a good example of a rebellious Old Soul. I haven't studied real deep into soul ages for awhile but one of the big differences I perceive between Mature and Old Souls is that although they both support just causes and compassion for others, Mature Souls tend to have more of an emotional, 'moral panic' attitude to injustices whereas Old Souls tend to keep more calm in the face of such adversities and try to extend that calm to others.

 

I noticed this while watching the 2016 US Election and the behaviours of the American public. Some people (Mature Souls?) were fanatically on Hillary's side for the simple reason that she'd beat the evil Trump while others - such as Sarandon herself - stood back, reflected and thought, "Well in all honesty, neither Trump or Clinton are that great, maybe I'll consider voting Jill Stein instead." This of course, really upset the Hillary-supporting moral panic crowd with the thought that otherwise reasonable people would vote for a potential spoiler candidate, risking Hillary's chances in such a crucial election. Things did seem to get a bit ugly from what I could see over the internet about it after Trump's surprise win.

 

But it was interesting what I noticed, that some progressives seemed truly fanatical over Hillary as 'America's only chance' while others were less enthusiastic and even seeking alternatives, and some these defectors were definitely not Trump supporters at all. My assumption is that the more rebellious progressives such as the Stein voters were a largely Old Soul group who were sick of the Mature Soul outcries as well as the Baby-Young Soul order of things and thus sought out an alternative to both. There would be of course, plenty of Old Souls hedging their bets on Hillary as the safest option but I could nonetheless feel the difference in energy and even maturity between the groups.

 

I'm actually reading an article about Susan Sarandon at the moment which is interesting but long and I haven't even got halfway through it. It might be an insightful read though so I'll post a link. She seems like a very individual thinker without losing too much sense like many do when they go against the mainsteam crowd.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/nov/26/susan-sarandon-i-thought-hillary-was-very-dangerous-if-shed-won-wed-be-at-war?CMP=fb_gu

Edited by michael_k
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I encourage people who can still nominate the celebrities to look at Ann's suggestion and bring up the ones you like to the voting thread!

 

@PPLD, I recognize Tracy Chapman too. She's most likely an Old Soul from Cadre 1. I saw quite a bit of Cardinal role in her! It's hard to tell if it's the cast or the role though. Some elements of Scholar too?

 

@michael_k, Susan Sarandon is also someone I noticed for a long time - it's funny that I haven't seen much of her movies. I got to know her because of Tim Robbins, who I also really like. They were an interesting couple, probably some significant essence connection between those two.

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I really liked Susan Sarandon, while she was with Tim Robbins, but, in the US Presidential election I thought that she has lost any semblance of rational objective thought (and conscience) (sorry @michael_k), when she proposed that she would vote for Trump, instead of Hillary. She then proceeded to disparage Hillary and "talk up" Trump (how can you possibly roll a turd in glitter, or put lipstick on a turd, and claim that it is anything other than a turd, good luck etc) , and anyway I lost my respect for her then. I would suggest maybe she is late Mature. 

 

Out of curiosity, I wonder who she did vote for in the end? I guess I will not know.

 

Tim Robbins? I love this guy. I get some kind of recognition with him. Late mature, early Old?? I was disappointed when Susan left him, but I will leave that judgement up in the air until I find out who Susan voted for. Until then I liked her. 

 

 

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Maureen
1 hour ago, AnnaD said:

I really liked Susan Sarandon, while she was with Tim Robbins, but, in the US Presidential election I thought that she has lost any semblance of rational objective thought (and conscience) (sorry @michael_k), when she proposed that she would vote for Trump, instead of Hillary. She then proceeded to disparage Hillary and "talk up" Trump (how can you possibly roll a turd in glitter, or put lipstick on a turd, and claim that it is anything other than a turd, good luck etc) , and anyway I lost my respect for her then. I would suggest maybe she is late Mature. 

 

@AnnaD,  I dislike Susan Sarandon almost as much as I hate Trump. Sarandon voted for the only female candidate who, literally, sat at Putin's table -- Jill Stein. Anyone who didn't vote for Hillary, in my books, is either fully asleep or half asleep and didn't put the "healthy" needs of the country ahead of their own personal pettiness or lack of vision. To not know where Trump was going to lead the country before you cast your vote (lack of vision) or to not care (negligence) is on par (IMO) with being criminal. If you didn't vote for Hillary Clinton you either directly or indirectly voted for Donald Trump and that is not OK and no one can weasel their way out of this one. I hate it when the many that are awake are left with cleaning up the mess of the asleep. It isn't fair and it's an enormous amount of responsibility and work. I see many that voted badly or unwisely like to pretend that it was OK and it will all sort itself out in the end. While that is true, that it will sort itself out in the end, it still sucks in the meantime to have to clean up other's messes. I see Susan Sarandon as adding to the mess or the chaos and not giving a shit how the mess has affected so many Americans who have to live with the outrage of having Donald Trump as president.  

 

From Google:  Actress Susan Sarandon has no regrets about voting for 2016 Green Party presidential nominee Jill Stein, saying Democratic pick Hillary Clinton was "very, very dangerous" for the country. “I did think she was very, very dangerous," Sarandon told the Guardian, who refused to shift allegiances to Clinton ...

Edited by Maureen
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50 minutes ago, AnnaD said:

I really liked Susan Sarandon, while she was with Tim Robbins, but, in the US Presidential election I thought that she has lost any semblance of rational objective thought (and conscience) (sorry @michael_k), when she proposed that she would vote for Trump, instead of Hillary. She then proceeded to disparage Hillary and "talk up" Trump (how can you possibly roll a turd in glitter, or put lipstick on a turd, and claim that it is anything other than a turd, good luck etc) , and anyway I lost my respect for her then. I would suggest maybe she is late Mature. 

 

Out of curiosity, I wonder who she did vote for in the end? I guess I will not know.

 

Tim Robbins? I love this guy. I get some kind of recognition with him. Late mature, early Old?? I was disappointed when Susan left him, but I will leave that judgement up in the air until I find out who Susan voted for. Until then I liked her. 

 

 

I think (I am too lazy to read upon it, sorry) at first she was a Bernie supporter, after that Bernie or bust, after that she was campaigning for the third choice, Jill Stein.

Yep, she pissed off many people. I felt sorry for her. Still do.

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11 hours ago, michael_k said:

I think Susan Sarandon would be a good example of a rebellious Old Soul. I haven't studied real deep into soul ages for awhile but one of the big differences I perceive between Mature and Old Souls is that although they both support just causes and compassion for others, Mature Souls tend to have more of an emotional, 'moral panic' attitude to injustices whereas Old Souls tend to keep more calm in the face of such adversities and try to extend that calm to others.

 

I noticed this while watching the 2016 US Election and the behaviours of the American public. Some people (Mature Souls?) were fanatically on Hillary's side for the simple reason that she'd beat the evil Trump while others - such as Sarandon herself - stood back, reflected and thought, "Well in all honesty, neither Trump or Clinton are that great, maybe I'll consider voting Jill Stein instead." This of course, really upset the Hillary-supporting moral panic crowd with the thought that otherwise reasonable people would vote for a potential spoiler candidate, risking Hillary's chances in such a crucial election. Things did seem to get a bit ugly from what I could see over the internet about it after Trump's surprise win.

 

But it was interesting what I noticed, that some progressives seemed truly fanatical over Hillary as 'America's only chance' while others were less enthusiastic and even seeking alternatives, and some these defectors were definitely not Trump supporters at all. My assumption is that the more rebellious progressives such as the Stein voters were a largely Old Soul group who were sick of the Mature Soul outcries as well as the Baby-Young Soul order of things and thus sought out an alternative to both. There would be of course, plenty of Old Souls hedging their bets on Hillary as the safest option but I could nonetheless feel the difference in energy and even maturity between the groups.

 

I'm actually reading an article about Susan Sarandon at the moment which is interesting but long and I haven't even got halfway through it. It might be an insightful read though so I'll post a link. She seems like a very individual thinker without losing too much sense like many do when they go against the mainsteam crowd.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/nov/26/susan-sarandon-i-thought-hillary-was-very-dangerous-if-shed-won-wed-be-at-war?CMP=fb_gu

Well, now I am very curious about her. I would go with @AnnaD, my money is on late Mature. 

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I have to say I don't have a huge interest in the celebs (probably b/c I am just barely getting a handle on my own stuff and don't even know where to vote or nominate) but

 

Margaret Atwood  is my all time favorite author, and I've read almost everything she's written.

 

I've been really really into Robert Plant lately, and still love Led Zep probably more than is seemly for a middle aged lady.

 

Talking Heads is one of my fave bands ever and for a few years all I listened to besides Motown. 

 

And Neil Young!

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thanks @Maureen. So she is as annoying as I suspected that she was. What is news to me, is that voting for Jill Stein was a throw away vote. I didn't realise that Jill Stein (Green Party US?), erm delicately put this, "sat at the table with Putin" (WHY), how do these people work together??????????????????????????????????????/

 

Is the US Green Party corrupt? Or are the US Green Party a bunch of Gwyneth Paltrows who are actually kind of priveleged, and although talking lots, are "not having to walk their talk", ie practise what they preach, for the exception of being financially and legally supported by less ethical/transparent/low integrity types, who provide funding to their Gwyneths to maintain a veneer of ethical virtuousness and first class priveleged superiority?

 

I need ejumacating please and thanks.

 

Revelations all around.

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Maureen
22 minutes ago, AnnaD said:

thanks @Maureen. So she is as annoying as I suspected that she was. What is news to me, is that voting for Jill Stein was a throw away vote. I didn't realise that Jill Stein (Green Party US?), erm delicately put this, "sat at the table with Putin" (WHY), how do these people work together??????????????????????????????????????/

 

Is the US Green Party corrupt? Or are the US Green Party a bunch of Gwyneth Paltrows who are actually kind of priveleged, and although talking lots, are "not having to walk their talk", ie practise what they preach, for the exception of being financially and legally supported by less ethical/transparent/low integrity types, who provide funding to their Gwyneths to maintain a veneer of ethical virtuousness and first class priveleged superiority?

 

I need ejumacating please and thanks.

 

Revelations all around.

 

@AnnaD,  here’s a link to an article from NBC and a great “tell all” photo. Guess Who Came to Dinner With Flynn and Putin

 

48436440-7CEE-4163-87F0-2D14F6969536.jpeg

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Maureen
12 minutes ago, Maureen said:

 

@AnnaD,  here’s a link to an article from NBC and a great “tell all” photo. Guess Who Came to Dinner With Flynn and Putin

 

48436440-7CEE-4163-87F0-2D14F6969536.jpeg

 

@AnnaD, to be fair, the Jill Stein’s connection to Russia may have been debunked, sort of... I’m not sure. But a vote for Jil Stein might as well have been a vote for a Trump as Stein was the go-to candidate for many who wouldn’t give up on Bernie Sanders and didn’t want to vote for Clinton. Here’s an interview with Jill Stein where she explains what happened. 

 

RUSSIA INVESTIGATION: JILL STEIN EXPLAINS HER RELATIONSHIP TO PUTIN, TRUMP AND HILLARY CLINTON

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michael_k
9 hours ago, Maureen said:

 

@AnnaD,  I dislike Susan Sarandon almost as much as I hate Trump. Sarandon voted for the only female candidate who, literally, sat at Putin's table -- Jill Stein. Anyone who didn't vote for Hillary, in my books, is either fully asleep or half asleep and didn't put the "healthy" needs of the country ahead of their own personal pettiness or lack of vision. To not know where Trump was going to lead the country before you cast your vote (lack of vision) or to not care (negligence) is on par (IMO) with being criminal. If you didn't vote for Hillary Clinton you either directly or indirectly voted for Donald Trump and that is not OK and no one can weasel their way out of this one. I hate it when the many that are awake are left with cleaning up the mess of the asleep. It isn't fair and it's an enormous amount of responsibility and work. I see many that voted badly or unwisely like to pretend that it was OK and it will all sort itself out in the end. While that is true, that it will sort itself out in the end, it still sucks in the meantime to have to clean up other's messes. I see Susan Sarandon as adding to the mess or the chaos and not giving a shit how the mess has affected so many Americans who have to live with the outrage of having Donald Trump as president.  

 

From Google:  Actress Susan Sarandon has no regrets about voting for 2016 Green Party presidential nominee Jill Stein, saying Democratic pick Hillary Clinton was "very, very dangerous" for the country. “I did think she was very, very dangerous," Sarandon told the Guardian, who refused to shift allegiances to Clinton ...

 

A lot of thoughts on this I've needed to get off my chest for awhile... may be controversial to some here...

 

I'm living outside the U.S. and here in Australia, we have a different voting system where spoiler candidates aren't a thing as we have a preference vote system where third party votes can slide back to the main party of preference. This being said, Maine tried to introduce a similar system recently through referendum and the majority of the public voted in favour only the have the decision overturned by the GOP and the Democrats. What this directly implies is those two parties work with each other's interests before any potential outsider, and this has backfired on the Democrats before during the 2000 Election when Nader stole the vote. That being said , if the Democrats had a real problem with being spoilered, they could have just brought in ranked-choice voting during Obama's term and the fact they wouldn't goes to show that they'd rather throw the vote to Trump than accept any loss from the likes of Jill Stein or any other minor-party progressive.

 

Hillary and her party tried to use Trump as a threat against the American public to shame anyone who wouldn't vote for her and some people obviously weren't willing to tolerate such a dirty tactic. It backfired and ultimately all the Green Party and Jill wanted to do is bargain for a better deal for the American people. Everyone is responsible for their vote and anyone who voted for Hillary could have instead supported Jill and her various policies and it is sad to see Hillary supporters turn against the very people who wanted a better future for them then even they themselves did. Ultimately what we have seen is a successful establishment attempt to divide progressives against each other and ostracise those progressive who truly think outside the box and beyond the two main parties so that ideas and candidate can be more controlled by the collective interests of the political class. I do not live in America but after studying their political situation I have to say I respectfully but utterly disagree with you and your views on the situation and I believe you have fallen for a divide and conquer tactic from the conservative status quo when you label Stein voters 'criminal' for making a daring leap during a troubled and confusing time full of propaganda and heated emotions.

 

This sort of divisive thinking will never do if what the MEntity says about the (near) future proves to be true. In all honesty the move away from complacency into action may ultimately see us having to move away from established leaders altogether and making our own thoughts and collective decisions instead of relying on higher elites like both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. Our leaders may just turn out to be our worst enemies if they abandon ship and decide to save themselves and their own interests in a time of crisis. Stein herself is a brave woman who fought the extra mile to be heard early on with an independent view and she has paid the price of being locked up for attempting to participate in the 2012 Presidential Debate. She has also had a warrant for arrest more recently for standing with Native Americans against the Dakota Access Pipeline where she spray painted a bulldozer in solidarity with the local protestors.

 

It is important to note at this point that Jill Stein was close to the Standing Rock protests, much closer than Hillary was, and she scored some of her highest vote percentages in Sioux County, ND where the events were taking place. I'm not implying that Jill Stein is the Infinite Soul but the fact that her priorities line up with what we have been told about the IS (who supposedly was also active at Standing Rock) could imply that Jill Stein may become somewhat of a disciple for the Infinite Soul as events pan out and the old orders start falling away. I wouldn't discount her so easily.

 

As for the whole Russia thing, I think Americans have some very funny views on that country that even in mainstream progressive circles are couched in paranoia, xenophobia, belligerence and even ultra-nationalism driven by years of Cold War propaganda. The United States also has a strange view of itself as a rightful surveillance state that can right wrongs in other countries and this is exactly the kind of thing that has caused many pointless wars in the past, many of which involved my country as Australia is a long-time war ally to the US. Yes, Vladimir Putin isn't the type that any of us would select for leading a country, but that's not our decision. We aren't the Russian people and it is only up to them to decide what is best for their own country and to fight their own battles with as foreign meddling or intrusion as possible. Yes, there are times when you've got to step in and condemn atrocities but if you jump the gun and make threats too soon you can lose control of the situation and the troublemakers will become more distanced and difficult to work with. Honestly when I first saw Jill Stein at the table with Putin I was actually rather impressed that such an unlikely candidate was still professional and dedicated enough to meet with foreign leaders and presumably discuss important political matters. The Hillary crowd seemed to think otherwise and wanted Putin to be outcast and condemned even if such a thing could ignite a second Cold War type scenario somewhere down the line or possibly sooner, and this is what Susan Sarandon was getting at when she was talking about the dangers of Hillary, at least in my eyes.

 

We all need to learn to work together in this world. We need Russians to work with us, we need Americans to work with us (Trump supporting or otherwise), we need everyone and to imply that the world would have been magically un-messy under Hillary is a strange way of looking at things. There is always going to be mess especially where we are at in the world and our development and thus humility and outsider ideas are needed to help us through. Blame Russia and Putin all you want but America is far from a perfect country. Look at the deaths in the Middle East, the deformities from Agent Orange in Vietnam, these are U.S. atrocities and yet Americans still crown themselves as progressive leaders of the free world and condemn nations like Russia for not following suite. Sure, America is better on LGBT rights but Israel is liberal in that regard also and that does not change the crimes committed against Palestinians one iota. The U.S. is also aligned with Saudi Arabia which has an atrocious record on human rights concerning women so with all that considered I can't really kick up too much of a fuss over Jill Stein dining with Putin.

 

If all leaders of the world could join Putin and share a nice meal together, maybe we would already have a peaceful world!

 

I think I'll pick Susan Sarandon as my third celebrity choice in the Top 25 thread.

 

Edited by michael_k
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I still have a low opinion of Susan Sarandon and no respect for her, but I am not convinced that Jill Stein is to blame for Trump's success. 

The divisiveness between liberals runs deep and I agree it is a massive blow to the Democrats that that was successfully exploited. It is a shame that the US doesn't have MMP. There might be less divisiveness between different sorts of "liberals" if MMP was the political system in place. Who knows, maybe not. 

 

I agree with Maureen, in that voting for anyone beyond Hillary, as a Democrat, was a stupid choice. It was a choice, but it was utterly stupid. 

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michael_k

@AnnaD It's a bit more complicated than that in the United States. From the research I've done, the way the Electoral College works in America means that only swing states got at real say at whether Trump or Hillary won the election while deep blue states like California or deep red like Kansas or Oklahoma are basically decided from the get go due to the demographics present in that state. This, and all the electoral points for most states go one way, this means if California votes Democrat, all 55 electoral votes are going to the Dems and not a single Republican gets represented. With this situation in place, people in swing states like Florida or New Hampshire would be putting on a very risky bet voting for Jill Stein and I would have likely voted for Hillary in such circumstances regardless of my opinion of Jill. In a place like California, or Massachusetts however, a Stein vote is a lot more safe as Hillary was almost guaranteed to win those states anyway and a third party vote was the only real way to make one's vote count in an already decided state. There was a lot of variables in place so I don't think Stein voters should be universally condemned for the spoiler effect even if it is something important to keep in mind.

 

That and only 55.7% of Americans of age even voted in the election. The non-voting population is larger than the number of Trump voters for crying out loud! Stein only got 1% support from those who actually voted and that group gets a ridiculous amount of hate in comparison. Maybe Democrats and Hillary supporters should shame almost half of America for not even bothering to turn out?

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Felicitas
2 hours ago, michael_k said:

 

A lot of thoughts on this I've needed to get off my chest for awhile... may be controversial to some here...

 

I'm living outside the U.S. and here in Australia, we have a different voting system where spoiler candidates aren't a thing as we have a preference vote system where third party votes can slide back to the main party of preference. This being said, Maine tried to introduce a similar system recently through referendum and the majority of the public voted in favour only the have the decision overturned by the GOP and the Democrats. What this directly implies is those two parties work with each other's interests before any potential outsider, and this has backfired on the Democrats before during the 2000 Election when Nader stole the vote. That being said , if the Democrats had a real problem with being spoilered, they could have just brought in ranked-choice voting during Obama's term and the fact they wouldn't goes to show that they'd rather throw the vote to Trump than accept any loss from the likes of Jill Stein or any other minor-party progressive.

 

Hillary and her party tried to use Trump as a threat against the American public to shame anyone who wouldn't vote for her and some people obviously weren't willing to tolerate such a dirty tactic. It backfired and ultimately all the Green Party and Jill wanted to do is bargain for a better deal for the American people. Everyone is responsible for their vote and anyone who voted for Hillary could have instead supported Jill and her various policies and it is sad to see Hillary supporters turn against the very people who wanted a better future for them then even they themselves did. Ultimately what we have seen is a successful establishment attempt to divide progressives against each other and ostracise those progressive who truly think outside the box and beyond the two main parties so that ideas and candidate can be more controlled by the collective interests of the political class. I do not live in America but after studying their political situation I have to say I respectfully but utterly disagree with you and your views on the situation and I believe you have fallen for a divide and conquer tactic from the conservative status quo when you label Stein voters 'criminal' for making a daring leap during a troubled and confusing time full of propaganda and heated emotions.

 

This sort of divisive thinking will never do if what the MEntity says about the (near) future proves to be true. In all honesty the move away from complacency into action may ultimately see us having to move away from established leaders altogether and making our own thoughts and collective decisions instead of relying on higher elites like both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. Our leaders may just turn out to be our worst enemies if they abandon ship and decide to save themselves and their own interests in a time of crisis. Stein herself is a brave woman who fought the extra mile to be heard early on with an independent view and she has paid the price of being locked up for attempting to participate in the 2012 Presidential Debate. She has also had a warrant for arrest more recently for standing with Native Americans against the Dakota Access Pipeline where she spray painted a bulldozer in solidarity with the local protestors.

 

It is important to note at this point that Jill Stein was close to the Standing Rock protests, much closer than Hillary was, and she scored some of her highest vote percentages in Sioux County, ND where the events were taking place. I'm not implying that Jill Stein is the Infinite Soul but the fact that her priorities line up with what we have been told about the IS (who supposedly was also active at Standing Rock) could imply that Jill Stein may become somewhat of a disciple for the Infinite Soul as events pan out and the old orders start falling away. I wouldn't discount her so easily.

 

As for the whole Russia thing, I think Americans have some very funny views on that country that even in mainstream progressive circles are couched in paranoia, xenophobia, belligerence and even ultra-nationalism driven by years of Cold War propaganda. The United States also has a strange view of itself as a rightful surveillance state that can right wrongs in other countries and this is exactly the kind of thing that has caused many pointless wars in the past, many of which involved my country as Australia is a long-time war ally to the US. Yes, Vladimir Putin isn't the type that any of us would select for leading a country, but that's not our decision. We aren't the Russian people and it is only up to them to decide what is best for their own country and to fight their own battles with as foreign meddling or intrusion as possible. Yes, there are times when you've got to step in and condemn atrocities but if you jump the gun and make threats too soon you can lose control of the situation and the troublemakers will become more distanced and difficult to work with. Honestly when I first saw Jill Stein at the table with Putin I was actually rather impressed that such an unlikely candidate was still professional and dedicated enough to meet with foreign leaders and presumably discuss important political matters. The Hillary crowd seemed to think otherwise and wanted Putin to be outcast and condemned even if such a thing could ignite a second Cold War type scenario somewhere down the line or possibly sooner, and this is what Susan Sarandon was getting at when she was talking about the dangers of Hillary, at least in my eyes.

 

We all need to learn to work together in this world. We need Russians to work with us, we need Americans to work with us (Trump supporting or otherwise), we need everyone and to imply that the world would have been magically un-messy under Hillary is a strange way of looking at things. There is always going to be mess especially where we are at in the world and our development and thus humility and outsider ideas are needed to help us through. Blame Russia and Putin all you want but America is far from a perfect country. Look at the deaths in the Middle East, the deformities from Agent Orange in Vietnam, these are U.S. atrocities and yet Americans still crown themselves as progressive leaders of the free world and condemn nations like Russia for not following suite. Sure, America is better on LGBT rights but Israel is liberal in that regard also and that does not change the crimes committed against Palestinians one iota. The U.S. is also aligned with Saudi Arabia which has an atrocious record on human rights concerning women so with all that considered I can't really kick up too much of a fuss over Jill Stein dining with Putin.

 

If all leaders of the world could join Putin and share a nice meal together, maybe we would already have a peaceful world!

 

I think I'll pick Susan Sarandon as my third celebrity choice in the Top 25 thread.

 

Well said. As someone who also doesn’t live in the U.S., I can relate to what you describe.

 

To start with, I have never understood how a country that really only has two major political parties, but is in fact run by a small group from within those two parties, can not only call itself democratic, but also have the audacity to present itself as the foremost democracy in the world, which is what has been happening for decades now. I fail to see what’s democratic about that system and frankly, with the exception of ‘Obama-care’,  I don’t see that much difference between the policies that were carried out by Dem or Rep governments in the past. But I acknowledge that this might be due to not living in the U.S. and therefore not seeing things up close. It looks to me like in the current American electoral system, one’s vote doesn’t count for much.. Furthermore, as far as the whole Russia-thing is concerned, I find the fuss being made by the U.S. laughable. Of course, any kind of meddling in the internal affairs of other states is wrong, but isn’t that exactly the kind of stuff the U.S. have been doing for a long time (just look at the recent history of South-America and the Middle East)? Sounds a lot like the pot and the kettle to me...

And as far as dictators like Putin are concerned, don’t even get me started: history is rife with examples of dictators who were put in place by the U.S., so all the indignant whining from the U.S. government about bad Putin, to me, comes down to not liking the fact that he can’t be controled or at least steered in a direction that would be beneficial, nothing more.

 

To me, the only difference with Hillary Clinton, instead of Trump,  would have been a president who doesn’t openly behave like a mad person. ?

Edited by Felicitas Brenner
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Personal experience: Susan Sarandon is a bitch. I do not like her at all. I once thought she was intelligent and aware, but that delusion left a long time ago, way before her idiotic stance on Hillary, which only confirmed my opinion. Not a nice person.

 

But back to celebrity Overleaves: I only care about Roger Federer. I know you all are shocked ? All the other suggestions are interesting too. There was discussion about Roger being King or Warrior cast Artisan, Old. Discerning Overleaves is something I am not good at, so am impressed by all your guesses, @AnnaD

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@michael_k, @Felicitas Brenner, I agree with what you have said regarding the U.S's tendancies' (in predominantly young soul governed governments) to invade in business that is not their own to manage, and to empire build and to be hypocritical. 

 

@michael_k thank you for clarifying the complexity of the contribution of swing states and then "safe democratic states" (if I understand the implication as you mean), of California and Massachusetts, and probably New York, where, voting for Jill Stein is still seen as a "liberal" vote. Which it is. I am not condemning Jill Stein, as long as she walks her talk as a Green then I am very keen to get her overleaves done. I judged her quickly, and I apologise. 

 

@michael_k there is a lot of evidence that Michael Flynn will testify to to demonstrate Trump's collusion and corruption with Putin, and Putin's interference with the 2016 US Presidential election. Acknowledging the corruption and opacity in deals done between conflicting interests held by Trump/Putin/et al is key to restoring some of America's mana (self respect). I am under no illusion of America's scorecard for running interference and empire building, opacifying conflicting interests when it serves them, any young/mature/old soul country has a track record of slights. That said, Australia is known as being America's bulldog, which, has been more pronounced under some Australian administrations. New Zealand is known for David Lange's refusal to have nuclear warships in our waters, and NZ supplied soldiers to fight America's war in Vietnam (why) as Australia did (why), and it is a fact that New Zealand isn't seen at all on the world stage as a mover or shaker, in fact half the time it is referred to as part of Australia. (???)

 

I look forward to the Flynn's trial and testimonies against Trump et al, and to have a semblance of truth made transparent to the American public regarding the adulteration of the 2016 Presidential Election will light the fire for the impeachment of Trump, and hopefully the downfall of all the KKK white cabinet that are his colleagues.

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