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Mindblowing ? Love it. The Causal Plane is studying unknown forces. I always think there is a "beyond the Tao". It just doesn't make sense otherwise. Fractals. But I can't explain it.

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"The study of infinity is much more than a dry, academic game.  The intellectual pursuit of the Absolute Infinite is, as Georg Cantor realized, a form of the soul's quest for God. Whether or not the goal is ever reached, an awareness of the process brings enlightenment.  INFINITY AND THE MIND has been written with the average person in mind." -- from the introduction.

 

Infinity and the Mind is a book by Rudy Rucker written in the early eighties, 350 pages, paperback. It is one of my favorite mathematics books, influential. Yes, it is mind-blowing. There are levels and types of infinity.

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@Uma. There are many questions I would like to ask regarding this. I'm going to post a few below. If anyone has input I'd love to hear it. 

 

Do the scientific laws that apply to the physical plane also apply to the other planes? What is the medium (physical construct) of each plane?

 

Does the energy of cadres, entities and fragments express in miniature the energy of the planes they reside upon?

 

If there is a universal government 'who' are the members?  Is the government a democracy or (benign) dictatorship or of a format we (humans) haven't discovered? Are there checks and balances? Does everyone in the government agree or is there debate to decide what happens? Is there a hierarchy? What is the purvey of the government? Is there a police force to implement decisions? 

 

Michael mentions the role of consciousness in answering my question regarding the energetic overview of the universe. I asked the following question in my session which may shine some light on the issue:

 

What is consciousness and where is the seat of consciousness in humans and discarnates?

 

FROM MICHAEL: Consciousness is not so much a thing, but a process of remembering, of becoming aware, awake. It is something that can only grow, but never diminish. It is also contextual in that while one may be conscious in the Astral, one must then become conscious in the Physical Plane, and so on. One is always increasing consciousness.

 

Consciousness does have a quantifiable weight and position that can be most easily discovered and identified in mathematics. This quantifiable weight and position would only be a micro-symbolic representation, but it would at least be a “thing” then that could be factored into new equations. When consciousness becomes a meaningful factor in mathematics, a tremendous leap in technology and evolution is at hand.

 

There is no standard “seat of consciousness” in the body. The weight and position that represents consciousness is fluid and moves throughout the body, sometimes stationary for great lengths of time, and sometimes moving regularly throughout the various bodies. Different Roles will tend to hold their consciousness in different ways. Frequency can also give clues as to how one holds consciousness in the body.

 

There is always a body involved for consciousness until the Buddhaic Plane, so this variation on “seat of consciousness” works the same in the higher planes.

 

 

 

 

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Love your questions. I often have thoughts about the Tao or "all that is" and possibilities of this being a microcosm as part of a macrocosm. That everything we know including the Triad of Truth, Love, Energy, Tao, 7-planes of existence, and the stacked Universes are a tiny fracture of something more. It is beyond comprehension but fun to think about. There are so many questions that come to mind when thinking about the "bigger picture".

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@Troubadour Your questions have been answered in part in various sessions I have read, although at this moment I do not have the time to gather the quotes. I remember reading that Michael spoke about the physical laws of the universe not being uniform with what we understand at this point in our evolution, that the speed of light, for example, does vary from what we know. 

 

Your questions are fascinating and I too would love for Michael to expound on them. Thank you for your quote on consciousness

14 hours ago, Troubadour said:

FROM MICHAEL: Consciousness is not so much a thing, but a process of remembering, of becoming aware, awake. It is something that can only grow, but never diminish. It is also contextual in that while one may be conscious in the Astral, one must then become conscious in the Physical Plane, and so on. One is always increasing consciousness.

 

Consciousness does have a quantifiable weight and position that can be most easily discovered and identified in mathematics. This quantifiable weight and position would only be a micro-symbolic representation, but it would at least be a “thing” then that could be factored into new equations. When consciousness becomes a meaningful factor in mathematics, a tremendous leap in technology and evolution is at hand.

 

There is no standard “seat of consciousness” in the body. The weight and position that represents consciousness is fluid and moves throughout the body, sometimes stationary for great lengths of time, and sometimes moving regularly throughout the various bodies. Different Roles will tend to hold their consciousness in different ways. Frequency can also give clues as to how one holds consciousness in the body.

 

There is always a body involved for consciousness until the Buddhaic Plane, so this variation on “seat of consciousness” works the same in the higher planes.

 

Those two last sentences seem especially fertile ground for new exploration with Michael. Thank you for sharing this. This, to me, is the outstanding feature of our community--the willingness to share what we have received from Michael with everyone so generously. This makes our studies so much more profound and multi-faceted, with each of us bringing our own consciousness to the focus of study and seeing how that reveals the 'whole'. I'm overflowing with gratitude to @Troyand TLE. ❤️

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Great questions and excellent explorable material!!  I may ask a question at my next session about how consciousness is held in my Priest's body with a Frequency of 55.

 

I'm wondering if it will be similar to how we hold wounding in our bodies -- but different.

 

There is no standard “seat of consciousness” in the body. The weight and position that represents consciousness is fluid and moves throughout the body, sometimes stationary for great lengths of time, and sometimes moving regularly throughout the various bodies. Different Roles will tend to hold their consciousness in different ways. Frequency can also give clues as to how one holds consciousness in the body.

 

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Quote

This, to me, is the outstanding feature of our community--the willingness to share what we have received from Michael with everyone so generously. 

I whole-heartedly agree

 with you - nay, with every dimension of my multi-dimensional existence! I think it says a lot about Troy and the community as a whole and I am deeply grateful that I came across TLE. I truly delight in the lively, friendly, yet very serious (in a fun-Sage way) discussion of the Michael teachings. Thank you all for making this such a marvelous forum. ?? 

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Which brings me to another question I asked in the same session. I was prompted to ask this because of a theme I occasionaly found in my readings of the Michael Teachings.

 

I’m sorry that I can’t quote where the question and answer below come from.. I got it sometime in the last few months so it probably comes from TLE somewhere but I have read all the original Michael books, most of Shepherds books and much of the original transcripts of the 70s sessions so it may come from anywhere as I have a habit of occasionally collecting what I consider to be the most salient bits. Apologies to the original questioner.

 

I would like to ask about the meaning of “synthesis”. I have the theory that it means putting the knowledge into effect for growth.

 

THAT IS VALID. YOU CANNOT BEGIN TO PUT THIS INTO PRACTICE UNTIL YOU FULLY UNDERSTAND IT. THE SYNTHESIS WILL ALLOW YOU TO SEE THE ENTIRE SYSTEMS OF IDEAS AS ONE UNIFIED IDEA — THE CONTINUOUS CREATIVE FORCE. UNDERSTANDING WHY THOSE AROUND YOU ARE LIKE THEY ARE WILL OPEN YOU UP TO AGAPE, AND TRUE ACCEPTANCE. THIS WILL ALLOW YOU TO PUT PERSONAL AGENDAS ASIDE AND PURSUE THE PATH TOWARD COMMUNION WITH THE HIGH TEACHERS.

 

Another example is from Michael Speaks Live

How Reincarnation Works -- Part I  June 28, 2014 Channel: Troy Tolley 

 

MEntity-- Many of our students come to our teaching with presumptions of how reincarnation works, and most never ask about it. As our teaching is built from the questions of our students, and not from our simply deciding what you should know, the subject of reincarnation has been overlooked, despite its being such an intrinsic premise of this teaching.

 

 

So on April 10 2018 I asked this question..

 

I am interested in attempting to attain a synthesis of the Michael teachings.

I have noticed that on occasion you advise students that you impart information when it is requested, not simply because you think we should be told. I suspect this has to do with the evolution of consciousness and I’ll bet we don’t have all the information

you have to give. My guess is that it is the questions that are important.

 

Having the wit and tenacity to work out what the parameters of the teachings

are is possibly beyond me as an individual but I suspect that in concert with the collective at TLE we may have a good shot at it.

 

Would you approve of a collective TLE project aimed at working out what

those questions might be and do you have input as to how we should go about it?

 

FROM MICHAEL:

We never offer approval or disapproval

as this would impose on your capacity for choice. We seek for no student to please us or earn or win our approval. We support your choices and offer tools that help you to choose how to learn, and learn how to choose.

 

That being said, your suggestion is a sound

suggestion and is already, organically, in effect. It is valid that questions are key to evolving our common ground of communication of our teachings, and that is one of the primary functions of the members of “TLE.” The co-creation of common ground through

shared and cross-referenced questioning has opened up your access to areas of our teaching we did not expect to explore for another generation or so.

 

As for our input on the matter, we can only

suggest that for those students who are most interested, a casual but committed group be formed with an agreed upon parameter of shared resources of time and energy and focus for exploring specific topics of interests.

 

Synthesis can come with or without this form

of exploration of the teachings. Synthesis is merely the application of the teachings in a way that it is remembered as natural and essential.

 

 

My reading of Michael’s reply above is that going for the synthesis like a bull at a gate is not the way forward but

‘communion with the high teachers’ sounds like it could be interesting. And I would be interested in exploring specific topics of interest with a casual but committed group if the idea appeals..

 

 

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9 hours ago, Troubadour said:

MEntity:   ....already, organically, in effect. It is valid that questions are key to evolving our common ground of communication of our teachings, and that is one of the primary functions of the members of “TLE.” The co-creation of common ground through shared and cross-referenced questioning has opened up your access to areas of our teaching we did not expect to explore for another generation or so.

 

 

9 hours ago, Troubadour said:

I would be interested in exploring specific topics of interest with a casual but committed group if the idea appeals..

@Troubadour Two things: There are several clubs here on TLE where members can explore various aspects of Michael Teachings, plus there is an ongoing discussion of topics that members would like to have Michael discuss/expound/explore further, which you could also add your questions and areas of interest to for consideration. The Forum is called Topics and Workshop Requests and Suggestions.

 

I just want to say that it delights and surprises me to read members' sessions for that very reason. When I first came to Michael through the Yarbro books, I had only my own questions and lines of pursuit, which were very related to my circumstances and situation in this lifetime. It is only after finding TLE that I have realized the range and scope of what is available to be asked and explained, and that has been a total joy. I look forward to hearing your questions and Michael's answers as you get them and share them. The discussions that ensue from those exchanges are what really opens things up for further pursuit. So, thank you for sharing.

 

 

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  • 1 year later...
On 5/6/2018 at 7:19 PM, Troubadour said:

 

There is no standard “seat of consciousness” in the body. The weight and position that represents consciousness is fluid and moves throughout the body, sometimes stationary for great lengths of time, and sometimes moving regularly throughout the various bodies. Different Roles will tend to hold their consciousness in different ways. Frequency can also give clues as to how one holds consciousness in the body.

So, has any one asked Michael about where each role holds their consciousness?

 

Cause I'd be interested to see the difference, and extrapolate more from there! Like maybe, Sages express through the throat chakra, through talking and communicating, so would they also hold their consciousness there as well? 

 

If this has been covered, and you know where to link me to, that would be very helpful and much appreciated! 

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  • 1 year later...
On 12/21/2019 at 1:14 PM, petra said:

@Amanda  Thank you for bringing this up again, as far as I know "Tag, You are it"

I know of nobody who has asked the question yet, where each role holds their consciousness.

@Anirudh Ramachandran body maps

@petra lower and higher infinities, relevant to our current discussion

@Troubadour Hi

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9 minutes ago, Delphi said:

@Anirudh Ramachandran body maps

@petra lower and higher infinities, relevant to our current discussion

@Troubadour Hi

I don't know if the bodily emotion maps allow us to see consciousness by role. It's just the manifestation of emotions in their physical form. I do, however, think that each emotion is associated with a particular chakra, and the molecules of that emotion are physically stored around the region of that chakra.

 

I'm sure you've heard of emotions "blocking" Chakras:

 

1. Fear: Root

2. Guilt: Sacral

3. Shame: Solar Plexus

4. Regret: Heart

5. Denial: Throat

6. Delusion: Brow

7. Attachment: Crown

 

The last 3 don't seem to be "emotions" as much as cognitions in the negative pole. I also think the above model is flawed in some way, and was only created about 100 years ago. But it's a starting point.

Bodily emotions map.jpg

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Higher and lower, and or wider and closer infinities, in the context of our current discussion via the messenger.

Here is my understanding so far in the simplest of way to convey:

 

Big, higher, wider, Tao, imagined as a big pond, throws a stone into lower, smaller pond Tao.

The effect is movement, like ripples in a pond, = Higher Moving

Negative charge = Higher Emotional = Buddhiac

Positive charge = Higher Intellectual = Messianic

Sparks fly, like between Anode and Cathode

Neutral = Assimilation = Akashic 

Mirroring:

Causal = (lower) Intellectual

Astral = (lower) Emotional

Physical = (lower) Moving

 

There is obviously no end to higher/lower, or macro/micro, each one is containing the whole and effects it, no matter the fragmentation, and it is all connected from the intangible to the tangible, its an evolutionary process.

Each one of the 7 Planes offer us different experiences of the same chosen theme, like we aim for the exploration of Love, in our Grand Cycle and Universe.

Ad Infinitum, each stone that is thrown will be turned.

 

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On 5/6/2018 at 11:32 AM, Juni said:

Wait, there are levels of infinity? What?

YES! EVen in our (human) Mathematics, there are "Orders of infinities."

Transfinite is a term used to describe various sizes of infinity, countable, non-countable, etc., usually described by alephs. Infinity is a more general term about quantities that are not finite.

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7 hours ago, petra said:

Higher and lower, and or wider and closer infinities, in the context of our current discussion via the messenger.

Here is my understanding so far in the simplest of way to convey:

 

Big, higher, wider, Tao, imagined as a big pond, throws a stone into lower, smaller pond Tao.

The effect is movement, like ripples in a pond, = Higher Moving

Negative charge = Higher Emotional = Buddhiac

Positive charge = Higher Intellectual = Messianic

Sparks fly, like between Anode and Cathode

Neutral = Assimilation = Akashic 

Mirroring:

Causal = (lower) Intellectual

Astral = (lower) Emotional

Physical = (lower) Moving

 

There is obviously no end to higher/lower, or macro/micro, each one is containing the whole and effects it, no matter the fragmentation, and it is all connected from the intangible to the tangible, its an evolutionary process.

Each one of the 7 Planes offer us different experiences of the same chosen theme, like we aim for the exploration of Love, in our Grand Cycle and Universe.

Ad Infinitum, each stone that is thrown will be turned.

 

Some interesting correlations to our Universe’s theme of Love:

 

Universal attraction is a well known theme of gravity

it has universal scope - all particles have a gravitational mass and attract each other

it has universal strength - it is equally as strong for different types of freely faling bodies

 

This universality in standard treatments of general relativity is often attributed to the coupling of metric to matter fields - one definition is

 

”the property that all non-gravitational fields should couple in the same manner to a single gravitational field is sometimes called ‘universal coupling’”


perhaps, in a universe with another theme, gravity would not be uniform or have a smaller scope, only acting on certain objects like the electromagnetic force

 

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On 6/18/2021 at 4:18 AM, Delphi said:

Some interesting correlations to our Universe’s theme of Love:

 

Universal attraction is a well known theme of gravity

it has universal scope - all particles have a gravitational mass and attract each other

it has universal strength - it is equally as strong for different types of freely faling bodies

 

This universality in standard treatments of general relativity is often attributed to the coupling of metric to matter fields - one definition is

 

”the property that all non-gravitational fields should couple in the same manner to a single gravitational field is sometimes called ‘universal coupling’”


perhaps, in a universe with another theme, gravity would not be uniform or have a smaller scope, only acting on certain objects like the electromagnetic force

 

This would make sense. Maybe the reason (or one of the reasons besides variety) that different universes also have separate physics is because the differing themes demand things be structured in a way that reflect the focus of exploration of the universe.

 

I also wonder about how they may have different Roles in those other universes (assuming they use something similar to Roles for gathering and filtering experinces) and it came to me today suddenly that Role types  also may be closely aligned with and shaped by the themes of their universes.  It's kind of hard to explain and put into words for me since the information in my brain can many times feel abstract and then I have to concretize in words. Our universe is Inspirationally oriented (being based on Love) so the Roles here, regardless of whether they are on the Action, Expressive or Assimilative Axis maybe would, when looked on a much grander universal scale, all be more Inspirationally coloured and functioning, with the different Axes just showing the various ways that Love/Inspiration can be approached, brought forward.

 

For example, Kings who practice True Leadership know how to unite people by empowering and encouraging the strength in each individual so that they can contribute to the whole in a way that is most natural and appropriate for them. The key thing is that there is still the element of making things come together-Love, Gravity. Maybe in a universe based on a different theme, the Cardinal Action Role version of that place would have a different aim and would not use Leadership but something else.

 

Also, let's say that other universe has a theme of Discipline. In our world, the Server Role, the one that corresponds to the Love theme, is usually the fastest to progress across incarnations. But maybe in a Discipline universe the fastest to evolve would be that world's version of the Warrior Role-Ordinal Action.

 

Now, I often question about whether there would even be such things such as the Inspirational, Expressive, Action and Assimilative Axes+Cardinality and Ordinality in different universes at all or whether even that would be substituted for something else. I think there are levels to this-maybe the universes that are stacked at 12 have a fair number of both similarities and differences which would at least allow us to speculate what it might be like there but I think outside of that little ''team'' of the theme rotating 12 universes Michael have mentioned, there is likely more spaces of existence that get even more wild and utterly incomprehensible about which you can't even make wild theories, at least as incarnating fragments. Maybe when we get on the Causal and even higher Planes  even if we still may not be able to know these questions, we may have better tools and knowledge to hypothesize and compare in ways we can't now.

 

 

Edited by Marigold
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1 hour ago, Marigold said:

This would make sense. Maybe the reason (or one of the reasons besides variety) that different universes also have separate physics is because the differing themes demand things be structured in a way that reflect the focus of exploration of the universe.

 

I also wonder about how they may have different Roles in those other universes (assuming they use something similar to Roles for gathering and filtering experinces) and it came to me today suddenly that Role types  also may be closely aligned with and shaped by the themes of their universes.  It's kind of hard to explain and put into words for me since the information in my brain can many times feel abstract and then I have to concretize in words. Our universe is Inspirationally oriented (being based on Love) so the Roles here, regardless of whether they are on the Action, Expressive or Assimilative Axis maybe would, when looked on a much grander universal scale, all be more Inspirationally coloured and functioning, with the different Axes just showing the various ways that Love/Inspiration can be approached, brought forward.

 

For example, Kings who practice True Leadership know how to unite people by empowering and encouraging the strength in each individual so that they can contribute to the whole in a way that is most natural and appropriate for them. The key thing is that there is still the element of making things come together-Love, Gravity. Maybe in a universe based on a different theme, the Cardinal Action Role version of that place would have a different aim and would not use Leadership but something else.

 

Also, let's say that other universe has a theme of Discipline. In our world, the Server Role, the one that corresponds to the Love theme, is usually the fastest to progress across incarnations. But maybe in a Discipline universe the fastest to evolve would be that world's version of the Warrior Role-Ordinal Action.

 

Now, I often question about whether there would even be such things such as the Inspirational, Expressive, Action and Assimilative Axes+Cardinality and Ordinality in different universes at all or whether even that would be substituted for something else. I think there are levels to this-maybe the universes that are stacked at 12 have a fair number of both similarities and differences which would at least allow us to speculate what it might be like there but I think outside of that little ''team'' of the theme rotating 12 universes Michael have mentioned, there is likely more spaces of existence that get even more wild and utterly incomprehensible about which you can't even make wild theories, at least as incarnating fragments. Maybe when we get on the Causal and even higher Planes  even if we still may not be able to know these questions, we may have better tools and knowledge to hypothesize and compare in ways we can't now.

 

 

These are interesting thoughts, @Marigold. I feel like, there’s probably a never ending stack of 12, just builds upwards and upwards forever in a fractal way. In a discipline universe, perhaps the king would be focused on law, or foresight instead of uniting people as a means of highlightimg consequences and optimizing for the best plan of action overall. With regards to the 12 timelines, perhaps these would be different ways to look at the same theme. And, I believe, each timeline is only relevant to one sentient species? Since they all merge at the end of the causal plane (causal still being for just one sentience). A species overall may have a focus too, I remember reading humans were warrior flavoured and cetaceans sage.

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