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Troubadour

Who are these guys?

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Troubadour

Im wondering if anyone is interested in the crew that has become known as 'The Intellectual Dark Web'? Sam Harris, Jordan Peterson, Brett Weinstein, Eric Weinstein, Joe Rogan, Ben Shapiro and several others including Ayan Hirsi Ali and Majid Nawas.  Particularly Jordan B. Petersen. He is having a major impact on the (predominantly) male youth culture just now. 

 

 

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Troy
On 8/8/2018 at 9:27 PM, Philip Wittmeyer said:

 Please also provide some info/insights on the part he is playing in this chaotic transition we are living through. Based on the fact that he is a sort of 'phenomenon' in the zeitgeist at this time, I suspect he has a significant role to play, if he does not crash and burn, if he is not a 'flash in the pan'.

 

I'm not sure it's all that complicated. He speaks for the growing anxiety and angst among straight white men and he appeals to a base desire to have some return of unquestioned control and power in the world that is rapidly equalizing our power. He uses a lot of coded, manipulative, and convoluted language that nicely wraps an ideology of racism, bigotry, sexism, and xenophobia at its core. I think a lot of white men find him appealling because he says what they want to hear, but it's said in a way that is intellectualized and just arrogant enough to prompt a sense of pride. He's not unusual or unique. He's just a master manipulator empowered and emboldened by a rise in White Supramcy ideology. He's the Right Wing's wet dream.

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Philip Wittmeyer

What you, Troy, are seeing in JBP, I do not (yet?) see. It is still early in my investigation of the JBP phenomenon; there must be hundreds of hours of video available, and a couple of books to read. What I have learned so far is, among other things, not to be swayed one way or the other by other people's perceptions of him -- some are very positive and some are very negative and some are indifferent and some are baffled. The other thing that I am learning with him is to not 'jump to conclusions' based on a superficial and shallow viewing, an initial impression, like some people apparently do. For me, he is worth more than that. My initial impression was puzzlement, and this captivated my scientific Scholar soul: here is an anomaly that requires an explanation. Therefore, at this stage, what I can say for certain is that he is a magnetic-electric catalyst for me (and others, obviously), so it looks like I am set to learn from him, perhaps about what a devious reprehensible creep he is -- if that is what is really going on here. He has not yet set off my bullshit detector, and even if he did eventually, I could still learn from that -- such as, about how ignorant and gullible I have been, Midwestern farm boy that I am.

 

Most of my curiosity is in understanding how he arrived at his understanding, because some of it appears to differ from mine. I look at his evidences and arguments as objectively as I can. My amateur path has tracked a lot of his professional path. On my path, to some extent, I have actually previously arrived at some of the same conclusions that he has. I have not studied his ideas thoroughly and deeply enough to say what it is specifically that I should reject; like I said, I just do not (yet?) see all the nasty things you see in him. I refuse to dismiss him prematurely; meaning, before I have learned what I needed to learn. In any case, I am temperamentally disinclined to dismiss anyone with a bunch of pejorative labels that might just be projections of my own or other people's shadows. I could be wrong, but I suspect that ultimately I will assimilate his understanding into my understanding, with some of his ideas found to be worth retaining, and some not worth retaining. It is all just a learning opportunity and process for me. So far, it looks like he is exposing a lot of my own uninformed and unenlightened knee-jerk biases and stupidity rather than the other way around. What's not to like about that. Your mileage may vary. Obviously I do not have the same filters and/or sensitivities that you do.

Edited by Philip Wittmeyer

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Christian

Peterson is a PhD professor.  To get it this wrong means he is deliberately misrepresenting to preach to a flock.

 

 

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Troy
16 hours ago, Philip Wittmeyer said:

What I have learned so far is, among other things, not to be swayed one way or the other by other people's perceptions of him -- some are very positive and some are very negative and some are indifferent and some are baffled. The other thing that I am learning with him is to not 'jump to conclusions' based on a superficial and shallow viewing, an initial impression, like some people apparently do.

 

I think your approach is admirable and very scholarly, but I do think there is a difference between rash opinions and rational analysis. Jordan Peterson has been thoroughly analyzed and he's not all that complex or complicated (or interesting, actually). He's just REALLY good at packaging and marketing bigotry. There is a reason you don't see him as a beloved representative of progressive values, but you see him as an icon for the Alt-Right and White Supremacists. That should tell you all you need to know. I guess when you are a part of the targeted groups who have grown to recognize every subtle nuance of dog whistling, you just call bullshit bigotry when you see it. I guess it all sounds very different to those not targeted. Anyway... glad to know you are keeping a wide range of possibilities open for what he ends up meaning to you.

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