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Christian

Thought you might like a view of Bannon from a philosphical perspective.

 

 

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Mike Cleverly

I haven't watched the video but I just wanted to mention that I read Steve Bannon is aware of the "Strauss–Howe generational theory, also known as the Fourth Turning theory" that Michael has referred to as cycles of generations of approx 20 years in length. Bannon was said to have seen it as his role to induce the "fourth turning" - "Stephen K. Bannon, President Trump’s chief strategist, is an avid reader of “The Fourth Turning,” a 1997 book that suggests the United States is headed for a catastrophic period soon." See here: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/08/us/politics/stephen-bannon-book-fourth-turning.html 

 

I found it interesting that he would see a theory like this and see it as an opportunity to bring about some kind of conservative utopia.

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Eric

I've been into generational theory for a while myself, including a more recent form called Generational Dynamics by John Xenakis that built off Strauss and Howe. I think it's fascinating. I was actually surprised and intrigued when Michael broached their own take on the subject.

 

Likewise I also found it interesting, if not rather unsettling, how Bannon apparently ascribed to generational theory as well, including having interacted with Xenakis and attempted to incorporate his take on it when he was involved in the administration. Obviously, one can extrapolate very different perspectives from the same theory.

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michael_k

I have a lot of my own thoughts on Generational Theory. If you look at history as a set of 72-year cycles divided into 18-year quarters, it is surprising how things can match up. For example, the Wall Street Crash of 1929 and the 9/11 Crisis of 2001 occurred 72 years apart, and both signaled the beginning of turbulent eras, with economic recession/depression, controversial wars and divisive politics, and general fear for the state of our world, although in different ways.

 

I would actually consider the latest Crisis era to have been the period of 2000-2017, with the year 2000 being a planning year of sorts that determined how the Crisis would play out (Bush vs. Gore election, etc.). Although optimistic and tentative, I would consider anything post-2018 to be more reconstruction-oriented, with the March for Our Lives protests and the higher midterm election turnouts in 2018 being the start of a new turning and a decisive year for our trajectory over the next 18 years.

 

The 18-year cycle of turnings would imply that 1928, 1946, 1964 and 1982 were important years also. 1946 is obvious because of the Nuremberg trials and the resolution of WWII but I can't pin down the other two years in such an obvious historical way. 1928 was the year that Hoover got elected which would have been decisive in determining how the Great Depression was going to turn out so I guess that makes sense.

 

The 18-year turning would also determine the boundaries between Generations in a non-arbitrary way. 1928-1945 would be the Silent Generation birth years, 1946-1963 same for Boomers, 1964-1981 for Gen X, 1982-1999 for Millennials, 2000-2017 for Gen Z, and 2018-2035 for Gen Alpha. They aren't the most common definitions for the latest Generations at least, but they fit together well. I'd also divide the Generations into three six-year parts - Early, Middle and Late - to illustrate how the Generations blend into eachother. For example, 1994-1999 borns would be Late Millennial, and would be Gen Z influenced despite not being part of that Generation. 1982-1987 would be Early Millennial birth years and the people born then would likely be more Gen X influenced than later born Millennials and interact with Gen X and their culture and trends more.

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Susan A Flow

Very nice summary and attempt to make sense of Michael’s information.   It’s also very revealing what was  predicted as one of the possible scenarios in 1997 in GENERATIONS for this 4th turning: government shutdown.

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Eric

I know we're way off the original topic of the thread, sorry about that.

Although it's close, I don't think eras and events necessarily fit neatly into hard 72- and 18-year stretches, if only because humans and life tend to be at least a little wibbly-wobbly. It does tend to be within a few years on either side, so looking a little in either direction will usually show a major mark or two where the turning happens. As you said, 1929 had the market crash and first rumblings of WWII and 1945 marked the end of the war (16 years). The JFK assassination in 1963 probably sits around one of them (approximately 18 years), given how impactful it seemed to be, though the turning years in the 60s and 80s are less clear than the others. I definitely think 2001 marked the shift to Crisis era for the US, given how our society has changed since 9/11.

As such, one thing I would say is that I think we're still in our Crisis Era, even though we're already at 18 years. Crises eras always climax with some kind of major crisis event, most often a crisis war (For the US, past crisis wars were the American Revolution, Civil War, and WWII). These wars/climaxes are both fueled by and deeply impact the population physically and psychologically, and reconstruction is what follows in the wake of it. Despite the tumult and bitterness so far, we've not had anything of that intensity yet, although it looks like we're still building toward it. Based on both world events and what Michael has said about turning points, I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen within the next 2-3 years. (This is also I think what Bannon latched onto in terms of ushering in the Crisis and, as you said, bringing on a new conservative utopia).

It's all interesting because 72-80 years as a cycle corresponds with the average human lifespan (at this time at least), and hinges on what generations experience at different stages of life. What a generation experiences in childhood, coming of age, maturity, even what they haven't experienced but earlier generations did, all plays into how generations (though not always individuals) generally are defined and interact.

Anyway, sorry for hijacking the thread. Back to Bannon banter. 😛

Edited by Eric
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michael_k

@Eric sorry, I think I was the one that derailed the thread. :P I'll try to finish up on what I have to say on Generations and may dedicate a new thread in the future if I want to say more.

 

What could be happening also is a concept I found on the Generational Dynamics forum that implies that there can be a 'Fifth Turning' of sorts after the Fourth Turning Crisis era where the Crisis war/event doesn't reach a climax and what would have otherwise been the Recovery/Reconstruction simply comes through anyway, but with a different character. In this case, the Hero Archetype Generation (Millennials), instead of being spent on war, start using their combative instinct against the ills of their own society and failings of previous generations while the Artist Generation (Generation Z) comes of age without being traumatised by a Crisis war and witnesses the Hero Generation as they war with their society's own systems. Fifth Turnings are really shaky because of this dynamic and have a nearly certain chance of triggering a Crisis war due to the internal social friction in society at the time. As we are reaching the Mature soul era however, the chance of a war outbreak may diminish somewhat as diplomatic solutions are increasingly considered to resolve issues. The Infinite Soul candidates and incarnate Transcendentals would be on guard at this time to ensure the Fifth Turning is completed smoothly and that society doesn't 'roll back' on old patterns again. If things go well, we'll be on track for an Awakening in what would essentially be a Sixth Turning.

 

One thing that could really screw things up however is some sort of climate change based disaster, but it is hard to say when that could happen.

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Eric

@michael_k I'd thought about the possibility of a Fifth turning as well. That's very possible, especially if we go a number of years without some Crisis event. As said, the Fifth turning generally sparks a Crisis anyway, as the social conflict buildup from the last era seeks the intense resolution. A huge environmental disaster could conceivably work like a war in that regard. I think the next 2-3 years might tell where that ends up going. If anything, I'd think the IS ad TS would be on standby to make sure we are able to recover from what's ahead, whether so we don't fall apart completely or helping recover and move forward from whatever wars or environmental crisis occurs. I've often wondered how MT stuff would factor in, particularly the idea of what a Generational cycle would become in a Mature paradigm. Lol, guess this would need its own thread.

And back to your originally scheduled Bannon broadcast! 😉

Edited by Eric
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KurtisM

@Eric and @michael_k, I just want to add some stuff to your Generation talk.

Generations seem to line up very well with the Saturn and Uranus cycles in Astrology.

Saturn represents growth, maturity, age and time. Uranus represents truth, radical social change and revolution.

Uranus takes 84 Years to travel around the sun once- which is the highest average life expectancy with modern medicine.

Saturn orbits the sun in ~28 years, and interestingly 28 x 3 is 84.

The way Generations fit into these two cycles is that as Saturn moves around the Sun it moves through phases.

At our birth, Saturn is at a specific point in the sky. 7 Years later it is 90 degrees or in a waxing square to its natal point- this is the final onset of self-awareness and self-governed choice for a Personality. 7 Years after it is 180 degrees or a full opposition away from its natal point- this is at 14 years of age when puberty and adolescence shape us. 7 Years after that it is 270 degrees from its natal point, in a waning square- which is when we become adults at 21 years. 7 Years later it returns to its natal point in conjunction, having gone a full 360 degrees- which is 28 years of age, when we are caught in the pinnacle of our youth and vitality while figuring out how aligned we are with our life.

A Generation is roughly 20 years in length, which lines up well with the Waning Saturn Square at 21 Years Old. This is 3/4ths of Saturn's cycle.

3/4ths x 4 (the 4 types of generations in a generational cycle) equals 3. So an average generational cycle is 84 Years- the same as Uranus' orbit.

However sometimes Generations might wake up and come of age earlier, such as around 14 years old (2/4ths Saturn's Cycle), thus if every generation in the cycle woke up early in life a Generational Cycle might last only 56 years, which is 2 Saturn Cycles: 2/3rds of a Uranus Cycle.

Or they might come of age later, around 28 (4/4ths or 1 Saturn Cycle) and if every gen in the cycle woke up at age 28 the cycle would take 112 Years- which is 4 Saturn Cycles: 1 1/3 Uranus Cycles.

 

The Saturn-Uranus Cycle offers leeway for our choices but emphasizes 7 year intervals because they're in line with when we instinctively upload our life's memories to Essence (according to the Ms).

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KurtisM

In terms of this current phase, we're definitely still in the Crisis/Collapse era. It will not end until we see that total collapse. Strauss & Howe tried to divide up this Crisis/Collapse Phase into 4 Steps.

 

The first is the Catalyst, which is a striking and shocking event that sets in motion the idea that the status quo norms of society are ending/must end.

This eventually prompts a Regeneracy, where people rally around people/things/concepts that can secure their survival and lives through the coming turning point.

Then the actual Crisis event happens which shakes up everything as we know it.

And finally comes the Resolution which is where we either reach a point of high or low that stays that way for another good 2 decades.

 

In the Young Soul Paradigm, it was usually that nations would wage total war on each other & only a few nations got to experience a high while the rest would become defined by their defeat, shrinking their people into poverty consciousness.

We are currently in the Regeneracy, as people are rallying around role models, movements and philosophies that can save them. The crisis will likely come next year.

 

 

There are 3 key timeframes that significant events will likely happen on in 2020 related to the Crisis.

The first is January, when Pluto and Saturn make their next conjunction since 1982, but this time it's in Capricorn (Saturn and Pluto are hard hitting planets, representing death and destruction out of totally irresponsible fear at the worst end, and a responsible balance between structure and freedom in the positive) (Capricorn rules over government, economic affairs, public roles we play, implementations etc.)

The second is a timespan that highlights April, June/July and November, when Jupiter conjuncts Pluto in Capricorn (3 times in one year due to it being retrograde.) Whereas Saturn contracts and tightens Pluto to control, Jupiter magnifies and expands Pluto to spread its impact. Jupiter is magnifying Pluto, the Planet of destruction, chaos, rebirth and reincarnation- so this can either result in a whole hellload of drama and hopefulness, or an extremely optimistic focus on what can be created beyond the collapse.

The third date is in December, when Saturn and Jupiter conjunct in Aquarius. This symbolizes the start of a new Aquarian Era shaped by the application of Science and Humanitarianism to create Prosperity for All. Or it is the misuse of Science and resignation to Violence that creates a One World Dictatorship defined by Global Scarcity.

Either way it's all about UNITY.

I assume we're not leaning to the negative as much anymore since we spun out desperate  parallels in November 2018, but it's still possible.

 

After 2020 the next major events are in 2023/24 when Pluto moves into Aquarius, then we have Neptune moving into Aries in 2024/25 and Uranus moving into Gemini in 2025, which will all harbour the introduction of the next iteration of civilization. Basically once 2020 is over it will be clear what is collapsing, and we will likely clearly differentiate life before and after 2020.

Those Outer Planets shifting will likely ignite the next Stability period for 14-28 years.

Edited by KurtisM
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John Roth

If you read Generational Dynamics (free on John Xenakis' site), you'll notice something: he's very good at criticizing and fixing aspects of Strauss and Howe's theory, but every prediction he made has turned out to be wrong. I won't go into why I think that is, but take Xenakis with a big grain of salt. He's well worth studying, and his daily blog posts were quite enlightening (he suspended daily posts in January), but he's got war, doom and disaster on the brain.

 

As far as a Crisis ending with a Crisis war? Not even close. The fall of the Soviet Union is the obvious counter-example. The US need not have gotten into WW II - the Great Depression was our Crisis. We got into it because we were attacked.

 

A Crisis period ends when the people look back on what happened and say: "Never Again!". That's when policies are put in place that attempt to prevent it happening again, and that lay the foundation for the Stability to follow.

 

The financial crisis in 2008 is the one that occurs a few years before the actual Crisis War, if there is one. I'm saying that the 2016 election was the "Crisis War". The time span is a bit long between the financial crisis and the "crisis war," but the election fits most of the criteria.

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KurtisM

Interesting points John.

I think since the Millenial Generation stopped being born and began coming of age in 2004/05 that is a perfect time to see what has led to our modern crisis.

The Catalyst Stage I think doesn't often mean just one big event kickstarts the crisis, but multiple come in waves and chains.

The 2008 Financial Crisis was certainly the biggest candidate for Catalyst after 9/11 occured as Gen X finished Coming of Age. But before it we did have quite a few events acting like preshocks or precursors.

The Indian Earthquake+Tsunami and Hurricane Katrina were massive factors in shifting towards Global Empathy.

Various films were released from 2004 to 2007 on Climate Change, Fossil Fuel Shortages, and the impact of Food Shortages/Diseases due to Standard Monoculture and Chemical practices in tandem with Climate Change.

After 2008 we had the Swine Flu Pandemic in 2009 which made the world seem even smaller, then the Arab Spring in 2011 that catalyzed the Arab World. And at the same time the Fukushima Earthquake caused a Nuclear Reactor to meltdown, calling out the harm that could cause and our global misuse of power and power sources. In 2014 we had an Ebola Scare as well.

Throughout this period we have had strong movements to end Net Neutrality.

EDIT: Oh and I forgot about ISIS.

 

All of these seem like catalysts for 2015, when I think we entered the Regeneracy Phase globally.

Brexit & the American Election; the use of Activism Hashtags and Protests to Spread Awareness on Social Issues like Feminism, Indigenous Rights, Black Rights, Worker Rights, LGBTQ Rights, Gun Violence, Climate Change Proactivity and Veganism; the resurging threat of Nuclear War between Russia, North Korea and USA; the emergence of Online Self-Starter Jobs transforming the Job Market and collapsing 9 to 5 work life etc...

 

I think the reason it took another 10 years after the big Financial Crisis Catalyst is because we were just denying how separate we have become from... everything. We were just trying to pretend like it's all fine and that things can go back to the way they used to be. Events like USA's 2016 Election shocked us into realizing that nothing is going to change if we don't do something about it- and that quite frankly we're acting like lifeless robots when we condone a system that doesnt care for us. Point blank we need a new Economy built upon Compassion, Empathy and Participation from the ground up.

 

Edited by KurtisM
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michael_k
8 hours ago, John Roth said:

If you read Generational Dynamics (free on John Xenakis' site), you'll notice something: he's very good at criticizing and fixing aspects of Strauss and Howe's theory, but every prediction he made has turned out to be wrong. I won't go into why I think that is, but take Xenakis with a big grain of salt. He's well worth studying, and his daily blog posts were quite enlightening (he suspended daily posts in January), but he's got war, doom and disaster on the brain.

 

I had a brief read his website and I have to agree with sentiment... I noticed the Russia example and how the Crisis War did not happen in the Fourth Turning as predicted, but it was brushed away as Russia being in a 'Fifth Turning' now and the Crisis War being supposedly more imminent than ever, when it really looks like Russia has reconstructed itself a lot since the 90s, Putin controversies and all.

 

It got even more ridiculous when I started looking up some stuff posted on his forum about speculative possibilities of sixth, seventh etc. turnings where society supposedly completely degenerates by the Eighth Turning giving the same outcome as a Crisis War, but only after a 'Darkening' period where a culture endures a spiritual falling on the Sixth Turning as the negative counterpart of a Second Turning Awakening. Sodom and Gomorrah, anyone? 😛

 

I think I agree with Trump/Brexit being our most recent incarnation of the Crisis War, those events shocked a lot of people and it would line up with my suspicion that we are very early into a Recovery period/First Turning where things are still rather unpredictable and the threat of further peril is still on people's minds, much like the late 1940s.

 

One thing I disagree with when it comes to Generation Theory is the idea that the non-Crisis turnings are necessarily free of crises. The Korean and Vietnam Wars occurred during Recovery/Awakening and those wars were huge events for the countries they are named after. This brings up another question, are the Turnings local to culture as Xenakis would imply or species-wide as MEntity would imply? It seems there are two different theories at play here.

 

 

Edited by michael_k
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John Roth

Michael-k:

 

Crisis wars and political wars don't have to be symmetrical. In the American Experience, the Revolutionary War was a crisis war for the colonies, but a political war for Britain. Britain's previous crisis war was the War of the Spanish Succession (the French and Indian war on this side of the pond), while the next one was the Napoleonic Wars. In the same sense, Vietnam was a Crisis War for Vietnam, while it was a political war for the U.S.

 

Trying to put what Michael said in the two Generational Karma channelings plus the Savior Generation channeling together with what Strauss and Howe did, let alone John Xenakais, is a very interesting topic. My first two attempts weren't satisfactory; maybe the third time will be the charm. The differences can be stark: for Michael, a "generation" is put together as a group experience on the Astral, while S&H have to resort to fanciful theories to explain how generations happen.

 

One thing that's not at all apparent is that S&H did actual historical research. They read contemporary newspapers, diaries, letters and similar artifacts that a real historian would use as primary evidence, while Xenakis read general histories of the different eras. This accounts for a lot of the differences: it's not much of a general history of the US if it misses the Revolutionary War, the Civil War or the Great Depression and WW II. Crisis wars stand out like a sore thumb; it's easy to miss political wars or other critical turning points.

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Christian
23 hours ago, Eric said:

I know we're way off the original topic of the thread, sorry about that.

 

Discussion is always good and Olly does cover that briefly in the video.  He is mainly discussing how Bannon constructs his arguments and seems so smart. 

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Christian
9 hours ago, John Roth said:

The financial crisis in 2008 is the one that occurs a few years before the actual Crisis War, if there is one. I'm saying that the 2016 election was the "Crisis War". The time span is a bit long between the financial crisis and the "crisis war," but the election fits most of the criteria.

 

I would suggest that we are in it.   

 

We are having a second civil war right now.  We re-defining what it means to be American....or re-discovering it....not sure which.  There also is push to heal the wrongs of the past in a permanent way. But it is being resisted.  

 

I think warfare as we know it from the 20th century is over.   War will look more like what is happening on twitter and facebook.  Real damage can and has and will continue to be done to people.  But the bloodshed will be limited. 

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John Roth

Hi Christian:

 

Yep. This does not look like a recovery to me: we haven't hit the "never again" moment. That will happen after Trump leaves office. In this respect, the 3% probability of his being reelected in 2020 is a very hopeful sign. And it isn't just the Trumpettes; I've just moved to Virginia, so I see the current political crisis with the mob baying for blood. This kind of thing has to stop as well.

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Eric

It's true. Xenakis does lean heavily to the doom and gloom side and there's a definite...attitude or something in his writing that has to be waded through to glean the insights. Grain of salt indeed, and I hadn't come across that bit about sixth, seventh, etc turnings and a dark period and such, but if so, that needs a veritable salt-lick. This is probably why he and Bannon aligned quite a bit for a while; their perspectives tend to lean heavily toward the more self-important, fearful aspects.

As you say, though, he does have good points that tweak the original S&H theory, like the localized cycles, cycle merging and diverging (not unlike parallels in a sense), and asymmetrical wars/events. The similarities between these generational theories and Michael's take definitely suggest some kind of intersect, and finding ways that they overlay could yield interesting insights.

 

I agree that the crisis event is either yet to occur or climax, and I do think the climax does have to be something incredibly intense to push the population collectively to that "never again" point. Psychologically, it would need to be something strong enough and broad enough to galvanize even disparate people and redirect the societal energy currently driving gridlock and bitter internal contention instead toward the goal of preserving the larger community, however that's defined. War is the usual obvious form, though something equally intense, like a mass population shift/migration, pandemic, environmental crisis, technological/energy crisis, or heck even the results of alien/ET contact could do the same. Michael has mentioned turning points on the way for a number of those arenas, so it's very possible that's building and just around the corner. Recovery will be notable when the political gridlock, conflict, and vitriol take a back seat and the population is more focused on recovering or building stability from the results of the crisis.

I've heard the sentiment that we're in another civil war before, but I definitely disagree with that. I have a friend who has family in Sri Lanka and who personally saw the horrors of the recent civil war there. Actual civil war is well and truly brutal. So while there is a lot of bitter political conflict in the US at this time - a culture war, perhaps - we haven't even come close to the realities of true civil war here, and my hope is it stays that way.

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Eric
5 hours ago, Christian said:

Discussion is always good and Olly does cover that briefly in the video.  He is mainly discussing how Bannon constructs his arguments and seems so smart. 


Indeed. I skimmed the video some to get an idea of it. Notable to me were the two concepts of Affective Override, of cultivating emotional response to the point of it overriding critical thinking, and also of using partial truths to sell an overall story. Definitely tools to be aware of.

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michael_k
4 hours ago, Eric said:

It's true. Xenakis does lean heavily to the doom and gloom side and there's a definite...attitude or something in his writing that has to be waded through to glean the insights. Grain of salt indeed, and I hadn't come across that bit about sixth, seventh, etc turnings and a dark period and such, but if so, that needs a veritable salt-lick. This is probably why he and Bannon aligned quite a bit for a while; their perspectives tend to lean heavily toward the more self-important, fearful aspects.

 

I have to add at this point since I was the one who brought up the extra turnings, that this was a small conversation that I saw on his forum in which someone (not Xenakis, I just checked again) mentioned that they doesn't believe that a cycle is likely to last beyond the Fifth Turning, but if it did, then the dark period and extra turnings are possible, and they didn't put much further thought into it. They basically dismissed it as a one-in-a-million occurrence if somehow the Crisis War is delayed that long, which they didn't believe was possible beyond the Fifth Turning barring extraordinary turns of events. It didn't seem like a main point of Xenakis' theory but more of a contemplation upon prompting of the idea.

 

Still, it points to a pessimistic train of thought, and another, perhaps more bland way of looking at it, is the possibility of another regular Awakening occurring if the Crisis War is missed, after the Fifth Turning 'fizzles out' with a resolution for whatever issues are at hand, solving the Crisis War and stopping its happening. I'd say this is more realistic than a literal societal decay that is destined without a massive shock event resetting it.

 

He's a link to the post with the conversation I was referring to about extra turnings. It is the second post from the bottom by Falopex. http://gdxforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3167&start=10#top

 

Falopex writes:

 

I have a theory (totally untested against data and in need of much further research, I admit) that each of the generational archetypes can be split into a "left twin" and a "right twin". The unifying trauma of a Crisis War/Event triggers a cycle of "left twins" that are basically the standard 4 archetypes we have all come to recognize, playing out in the standard eras predicted by GD. If no Crisis War/Event manifests by the end of a Crisis Era, the "right twins" then present in the same order, like the peak and valley in a waveform.

As such, a fifth turning would be an era that sees the untraumatized Hero generation in their naive, hopeful, community-minded innocence become dissatisfied at not being able to effect real change and turn to increasingly drastic tactics in an effort to "make the world a better place". Their Artist children are raised in an authoritarian manner, but without the moral compass usually instilled by the trauma of a Crisis War/Event. Instead, the Heroes are determined that their children will not grow up to be like "the uncaring people who caused all this mess". True to form, they are naturally akin to abused children, but become in essence compliant zombies, willing to do *anything* that brings the approval and avoids the anger of their elders. This combination, subject to leadership by the criminally-prone Nomads would have a very high tendency to push the already extremely high probability of a Crisis War even closer to 100%. It is easy to imagine how suicide bombers would manifest in such a period.

What a sixth, seventh, or eighth turning would look like must necessarily be a matter of speculation since the probability of a Crisis War occurring by then is so incredibly close to 100% that there are no apparent instances of such eras in the historical data available. It doesn't mean such eras are impossible, only that they might be one-in-a-million-saeculae events, reachable perhaps once or twice during the evolution of a sentient species. However, I think we can make some rational guesses about what such eras *might* look like by examining the generational personalities in play in each theoretical turning and thinking about how those same personalities might manifest in contrast to the standard archetypes in an increasingly violent and chaotic world. Perhaps an inverted version of an Awakening would more resemble a social and spiritual Darkening. Perhaps an inverted Unravelling would look more like a Weaving, with the old institutions of violence and decay being slowly dismantled. It would not surprise me to find that the end of an inverted Crisis would leave a population so desperate for peace and so reliant on each other for daily survival that it would be effectively the same as if a Crisis War/Event of immense proportions had occurred, thus renewing the cycle with a first turning period of unity and rebuilding.

 

 

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KurtisM

I remember reading Strauss & Howe stated that wars happen everywhere in the Generational Cycle. What differs them is the mood or intention behind those wars.

In Reactionary/Awakening times, Wars are waged to invigorate and motivate and help people find themselves. They're proclamative.

In Disintegration/Unraveling times, Wars are inconclusive, continuing to divide and distance and fragment people farther and farther apart- with no end in sight.

In Collapse/Crisis times, Wars are total, brutal and absolute and seen with the guise that "this is it, we either win or we lose this forever- there's no turning back".

In Stable/High times, Wars are restorative of that balance and stability. They're truly seen as necessary to restore peace and harmony and status quo.

 

In a Mature Soul World, I agree that wars would take the form of philosophical debates about how beings are being treated, possibly playing out through online or virtual spaces.

Of course to a Mature Soul, everything is intense and dramatic so although Younger Souls now might roll their eyes, Mature Souls would be incredibly invested in bringing equality and cooperation to every divide they face even to the point of entangling and convoluting every issue plaguing them.

I imagine since by the end of the Mature Cycle everything is revealed and nothing is kept private and we learn how to be all of our emotions as necessary and appropriate- then each Collapse will become exceedingly about taking compassionate responsibility and leadership for some element of life that has been neglected or resisted.

Humans do learn from Fear after all.

We have issues like caring for the Earth as our home, realizing we don't know everything, integrating with ET Culture, helping other planets and species thrive, the inevitable fragmentation and reunion of our species across the galaxy, our position as caretakers for AI and Great Apes, resolving communication misunderstandings and finding a common language, human bioengineering etc.

 

 

EDIT:

Another idea is that perhaps the Soul Age Levels and Internal Monads we move through collectively also play a part in Generational Cycles.

Places like UK and USA are in a 3rd IM of an Early Mature Level (I have seen Michael say the US is Mature 3) right now- so that could complicate the crisis/collapse with issues of authority, freedom and fighting against conflict that might not exist in nations undergoing other IMs.

 

Also it could be that in the Young Paradigm, generations are individual to every nation or collection of nations relying on and living directly with each other.

But in the Mature Paradigm, generations become Globally encompassing due to the focus on greater Unity among all peoples, with all nations being interdependent on each other.

Of course what a nation is will change as we no longer build countries and states geographically and instead philosophically.

Edited by KurtisM
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John Roth

Integrating Michael's viewpoint with Strauss and Howe's is going to be an interesting task. One thing to keep in mind is that the four-phase historical cycle is exactly that: four phases. The idea of a fifth turning or similar is an attempt to force unusually long phases into the Procrustean Bed of materialist thinking. The phases shift when the exit criterion is reached, and if there's more than one Generation involved, so be it.

 

Notice that Michael's definition of the phases is very different from Strauss and Howe's. It involves two sets of expansion-contraction and inner-outer focuses that result in four combinations. I suspect that a detailed analysis of several of the cycle periods from that viewpoint might give some interesting insights.

 

The crisis that brings everyone (well, almost everyone) back together will occur later this year or in 2020, and it's going to be some form of resource shortage, contamination or failure.

 

Please remember: Steve Bannon is in the first position of the "World Domination" quintet. Position 2 is unknown, Position 3 is Vladimir Putin, position 4 is Donald Trump Jr. and Position 5 is the Quacker in Chief, Donald Trump himself.

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