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Troy

COMMUNITY CHECK-IN: Let's Snap Out Of It Together

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Troy
1 hour ago, ckaricai said:

@Troy and others, well if you all need to process everything that is new to you as a result of Trump's presidency, then that's what you need to do. This link might help you process even more. https://www.showingupforracialjustice.org/theory-of-change.html .  

 


It really feels awkward that my feeling bad in my own life is somehow affecting you and frustrating you. That feels awful. LoL I don’t have a clue how to fix that. I tried to respond thoughtfully, but maybe I missed the point. 

 

We all have our different ways of grieving and coping and we all have different things that prompt our grief. I think you will drive yourself bonkers worrying about how and why others grieve. Grief is so personal and not always logical or able to be scheduled. It’s going to happen even if we don’t approve or understand. 


I did want to add that it may be way too simplistic to keep assuming the grief is only about Trump. That’s way off for me, at least. 
 

PS — it’s also totally ok that you don’t relate to any of this. I still love you!!

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Christian

Ya know at first, I didn't get what people were feeling.

 

To me, this wasn't anything different than what I feel on any given day with chronic depression.

 

What I have noticed is the intensity is greater lately.  Much more drive to distraction. Sleeping. Temper is quicker.

 

I don't think it is being woke. I think it has more to do with the following.

 

The precarious position we are in.  Michael stated something like we seems to have taken a turn left and moved away from  self destruction.  But the path is tenuous. Part of the anxiety is the gut level feeling of walking a tight rope.

 

We have element on the right in this country who have declared their desire for civil war.  We have politicians encouraging that line of thinking.  Congress is threading a needle with the impeachment hearings.  

 

Things are tense and it is draining.

 

Add to that the enormity of the task before us, it gets over whelming.

 

There are so many who refuse to see and active work against the common good. 

 

But the core is still there.  The peaceful core is buried under the tension and chaos.  Buy it exists and can be accessed at anytime.

 

It is hard.  But saving ourselves never is.

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KurtisM

@Maureen I love that you constantly post that nexus. It always makes me deeply fascinated in exploring parallels.

 

I think it would be cool to ask Michael when other such Major Convergences (and Divergences) have happened in the last 2-3 Centuries.

Major Dates after 1776 that I can think of are 1789, 1804/05, 1815, 1833, 1839, 1848, 1859/60, 1863/64, 1884/85, 1895, 1898/99, 1905, 1911, 1914, 1917/18, 1920, 1929, 1933, 1939, 1941/42, 1945, 1947, 1949, 1957, 1959/60, 1963/64, 1968/69, 1974, 1979/80, 1983, 1986, 1989/90, 1994/95, 19992000/01, 2005, 2007/08, 2011/12 and then of course 2016 and 2019/20.

Some of those are likely key divergences, some are key convergences.

 

I wonder if before WW2 broke out, in the 30s, there was a similar Major Convergence of Realities that lead to a similar sense of paralyzing exhaustion/complacency and a Make or Break Dynamic?

 

One question popped up for me though.

In order for that 1700s Divergence to not Converge with us, what would we have had to do differently? When would that have had to Branch? That's a very different world than here. I wonder what we're doing there without this great healing process. Is it business as usual still? Are we en route to an IS there too?

Edited by KurtisM
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Troy

We’ll all find our way through. Hopefully, together.

 

sad winnie the pooh GIF

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Troy
12 hours ago, Christian said:

Ya know at first, I didn't get what people were feeling.

 

To me, this wasn't anything different than what I feel on any given day with chronic depression.

 

Empathy is everything. I give you a gigantic hug of empathy for your chronic depression.

 

I am not a person who was familiar with depression, so this wave of depression that has settled into my own life is startling and painful. I feel for anyone who feels anything remotely similar or worse because I never knew before this just how much it takes to JUST do the minimum to get through a day. I never knew. Now I have a very serious clue.

 

Maybe it is unique to me, but one thing that seems to come with the territory of channeling or being in a counseling position in any way is that the more intimately you experience an event, the more clearly and accurately your channeling or counseling can be for that subject. I think Michael has mentioned this in private sessions with aspiring channels. I guess it makes perfect sense.

 

I never ever understood depression before. I understood it intellectually, but there is no way to truly understand this state of mind without having experienced it. It's like trying to describe a migraine to someone who has never experienced a migraine. It's not just a bad day. It's not just a headache. But I thought you could just shake depression off. When I look back at my channeling before my own bout with depression, I see clear channeling and insight regarding the subject, but nothing addressed the nuances of what it means to LIVE with depression. Michael was able to describe the causes and meaning of depression, but remedies suggested were minimal. 

 

Now that I've experienced it in some way, I hope my work with Michael on the subject of Depression can bring some really meaningful insights and remedies to address the reality of living with depression. I don't know where to begin on the subject at the moment, but I'm trying to see a silver lining in this experience.

 

******

 

On a personal note: I also wanted to thank you for taking the time to explore the nuances that go beyond your own baseline experiences. Again, empathy is everything. I would never fault someone who already lives with depression or suffering or oppression for not going out of their way to understand the state of someone else's struggle with those same things. It's already quite enough that you have to deal with your own. 

 

But I think there is something meaningful to this effort to see beyond our own suffering, depression, and/or oppression. Something inspiring comes out of that effort. Something about reaching beyond the confines of yourself or your baseline familiarity really helps to create a common ground that gives you more room to exist alongside others. I don't know... there is something about connecting with others that helps share the weight of what we would normally carry on our own.

 

That's one of the reasons I shared this post. I knew it was not healthy to stay locked in my own private struggle and assume I am protecting myself and others from my experiences. It turns out, oh, others have similar experiences! And it is really helping me to shake this off. I can't shake off the reality of circumstances that prompted this slow dive into depression, but I feel more capable of shaking off the paralysis.

 

So thank you (to everyone) who takes the time and effort to relate to others, especially if your own circumstances are far worse than those of others.

 

You are an amazing community.

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Wendy

@Troy I've struggled with chronic depression my whole life, even as a young child, and so I've asked Michael about it a number of times.  I have never found your channeling lacking in that area but it will be interesting to see if it gets even better now!  I'm sorry that you are going through it.  💕

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annali
On 11/12/2019 at 8:14 PM, Troy said:

Now we don't look for ways to come together and move forward, we look for ways to retreat and stay safe. AND on top of that, many of us found out that loved ones, family, and friends we thought we knew so well have been emboldened by Trump to reveal the truth about themselves. I know I am still emotionally reeling from the continued culling of people from my friends and family list who were suddenly speaking up with vile racist, sexist, homophobic, and hostile words that were never once uttered around me in my entire life. Good riddance to them, but... yeah, that hasn't been easy. Yes, we knew racism and sexism and homophobia and xenophobia existed in the world, but a lot of us did not know it existed in so many loved ones and friends. That is something I will humbly confess that I was completely clueless about. I think it's a good thing that we have unearthed all of these infections in our society, but it is pretty gross and, literally, sickening to watch. What makes it worse is that now those very people are closed to any conversation or insight. They are locked in. They are dead to me. I've had to grieve the "death" of more people in the past 3 years than I ever have in my life.

 

So on top of all of the constant access to injustices, horror, and violence in the world, Trump has also turned us against each other or revealed that we were never on each others side in the first place. 

 

That's just one layer of what I think I am processing.

I had to think a lot about what you wrote and I'm sorry about your losses.

It really makes me angry that we give people like Trump or ideologies like Brexit so much power to divide us and to be honest I think we should keep on trying to have an honest and open exchange with these friends/family members although their views go against our most important values. I don't mean to persuade them to believe our views but to LISTEN why they believe what  they believe. They're  loved ones after all and by excluding them from our lives we really leave them to people who feed their view even more rather than having the opportunity to challenge their view.  

Although I hate Brexit and think it's one of the most stupidest ideas ever and want to believe everyone who voted for it must be completely crazy (at least) I found out I have a dear friend who voted for it. It made me furious at first because i take Brexit very personal and  I have to say I also considered excluding her from my life but we started to talk about it and it actually brought us closer together and helped me understand why she voted for it and for her why people would want to stay in the EU.

I'm not going to change her mind neither is she going to change mine but at least she started to think about it, and me too.

Not everybody will be open enough for it but I've noticed more people are open than not open when they don't feel attacked.

 

We still have power. We don't need more division. I think to close the gap it would really help to listen and stay objective. 

 

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Troy
23 minutes ago, annali said:

I don't mean to persuade them to believe our views but to LISTEN why they believe what  they believe. They're  loved ones after all and by excluding them from our lives we really leave them to people who feed their view even more rather than having the opportunity to challenge their view.  


I always appreciate the innocence from where this notion comes but... a gigantic nope. if you are straight and white, sure... go for it. But for everyone else, we have better healthier things to do than to give even a moment of consideration to any hateful ideology. 

 

It is one thing to debate the meaning of life or the allocations of funding or the plans for a city expansion or any other non-existential politics, but to ask people to subject themselves to listening to the “other side” who are campaigning for the destruction of an entire group of people.... yeah, no... a big nope.

 

It should never be on the heads of the oppressed to educate or hear out their oppressors. it doesn’t help anyone. No member of any marginalized group has the strength or the responsibility to listen to someone, let alone family, debate the value of their existence. Debating the value of someone’s existence is abuse and abuse cannot be excused just because it is a family member. In all cases of abuse, we should leave, step away, not try to reason with or teach the abuser. And make no mistake... if someone aligns themselves with an ideology of hate, they are abusers. 

 

There are actual networks and organizations in place for those who are forced to endure reunions with family over the holidays and listen to these bullshit ideologies of hate that target them. It’s a very serious  blow to someone’s mental, emotional, and physical health. 
 

The real love and courage comes from stepping away from those who wish harm on us and use your compassion for yourself and for those who are targeted. 
 

There are exceptions to this and some will take on the fight and try really hard to reason with someone aligned with the ideologies of White Supremacy. More power to them.  Otherwise, we can just love these family members and friends from a distance. 

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Troy
25 minutes ago, annali said:

I found out I have a dear friend who voted for it. It made me furious at first because i take Brexit very personal and  I have to say I also considered excluding her from my life but we started to talk about it and it actually brought us closer together and helped me understand why she voted for it and for her why people would want to stay in the EU.


It seems there is just as clear a delineation between those for and against Brexit as there is for those for and against Trump. One is for White Supremacist ideals and the other is not. Maybe Brexit is more nuanced than that, but it doesn’t seem like it. In America, though, if someone still supports Trump...? They are full-blown proud racists and there is nothing more to discuss with them or understand about them. Maybe it’s different regarding Brexit.

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Crystal
On 11/12/2019 at 7:24 PM, KurtisM said:

One question popped up for me though.

In order for that 1700s Divergence to not Converge with us, what would we have had to do differently? When would that have had to Branch? That's a very different world than here

 

@KurtisM, I've been wondering that too. When was the split (besides "late 18th century) and what was the pivoting event?

 

Also, for those who work with others in a healing capacity - channels, therapists, doctors, etc. I have discovered this essence: https://www.staressence.com/products/quartz-rutilated I like all the essences that Star makes, but this one has been special to me lately. It's like a calm and reassuring hand on the forehead, if that makes sense. I'm also using the Gold essence and Gold and Silver Chakra: https://www.staressence.com/products/gold-silver-white-chakra

 

I think I am going to start my own blog to yammer on about these essences and other things but I thought they might help other people who need them, as they are helping me.

 

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michael_k
8 hours ago, Troy said:


I always appreciate the innocence from where this notion comes but... a gigantic nope. if you are straight and white, sure... go for it. But for everyone else, we have better healthier things to do than to give even a moment of consideration to any hateful ideology. 

 

It is one thing to debate the meaning of life or the allocations of funding or the plans for a city expansion or any other non-existential politics, but to ask people to subject themselves to listening to the “other side” who are campaigning for the destruction of an entire group of people.... yeah, no... a big nope.

 

It should never be on the heads of the oppressed to educate or hear out their oppressors. it doesn’t help anyone. No member of any marginalized group has the strength or the responsibility to listen to someone, let alone family, debate the value of their existence. Debating the value of someone’s existence is abuse and abuse cannot be excused just because it is a family member. In all cases of abuse, we should leave, step away, not try to reason with or teach the abuser. And make no mistake... if someone aligns themselves with an ideology of hate, they are abusers. 

 

There are actual networks and organizations in place for those who are forced to endure reunions with family over the holidays and listen to these bullshit ideologies of hate that target them. It’s a very serious  blow to someone’s mental, emotional, and physical health. 
 

The real love and courage comes from stepping away from those who wish harm on us and use your compassion for yourself and for those who are targeted. 
 

There are exceptions to this and some will take on the fight and try really hard to reason with someone aligned with the ideologies of White Supremacy. More power to them.  Otherwise, we can just love these family members and friends from a distance. 

 

I used to have a more innocent take on bringing prejudiced people to the accepting side but after the experiences I've had with my father over the years I've realised that sometimes this doesn't work and you only end up draining yourself by trying. I know now that some of these people enjoy the narcissistic supply they get by being reasoned with time again by someone they believe is simply a naive idiot going against their values and they enjoy being the distraction from that person's better causes. Although I'm likely to see my father again, I have little to no emotional investment in what he thinks anymore and I've only met up with him a few times over the past year.

 

Having a toxic influence around you and becoming accustomed to it can do untold damage that you don't even notice until that influence is gone. Although I am gay, I've never had that much of an interest in sexuality at all, and I'm starting to believe that this is because my sexuality is something that has set me apart from other people, rather than bringing me closer to someone, and this is something that has been invisible to me until I thought about it, as I only have my own life experiences to measure with and I accept what I go through as my own version of 'normal'. I wouldn't even want to talk to my father about such things, I don't think I want to talk to him about my personal interests much at all anymore.

Edited by michael_k
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Nadine
15 hours ago, Troy said:

I always appreciate the innocence from where this notion comes but... a gigantic nope. if you are straight and white, sure... go for it. But for everyone else, we have better healthier things to do than to give even a moment of consideration to any hateful ideology. 

 

I guess I'm kind of in between your point of view and annali's and I'd also differentiate between someone who is unaware or uninformed and someone who is blatently sexist/racist/homophobic.  As a woman, I won't start a discussion with an obviously sexist male. It will only trigger and hurt me and besides that will lead to nothing because that person, because of my gender, will not take my opinion seriously anyway. I do, however, appreciate every male who chimes in to set that person straight or call them out. I need those allies. I need the rest of that peer group to tell them that what they're doing/thinking is just wrong and entitled/privileged. I will also try to inform others when I have the impression that something offensive to me comes from a place of unawareness or lack of information. I keep it the same the other way around: I don't expect a LBTQ+ person to debate with a homophobic or a non-white person to debate with a racist. But I will call them out. I will argue. I won't just sit there and listen to the bullshit or ignore it. Granted, there are people who are obviously beyond any point of hope. And in that case, I think it's time to let them go, too.

Edited by Nadine
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Nadine
2 hours ago, michael_k said:

I used to have a more innocent take on bringing prejudiced people to the accepting side but after the experiences I've had with my father over the years I've realised that sometimes this doesn't work and you only end up draining yourself by trying. I know now that some of these people enjoy the narcissistic supply they get by being reasoned with time again by someone they believe is simply a naive idiot going against their values and they enjoy being the distraction from that person's better causes.

 

Yes, I totally get that. When it starts draining you, it's time to say goodbye to whomever is causing it.

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Uma

I tried to live with my fuckface-supporting sister but in the end I had to tell her to leave. What it comes down to for me is this:

 

 

20901348_10159227900630080_7253382710777726895_o.png

 

 

Just a note: fb is not letting me post this! 

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annali

Thank you for your views. I'm not in the US and wasn't aware of HOW badly Trump affects you and the relationships to your loved ones. I agree with you all. My post was definitely not meant as a licence to let abuse happen or a plea to stay in an unhealthy relationship or to apologise or support supremacy. 

When someone makes you feel bad or supports an abusive world view you should leave. 

I think I should have made my post clearer in that respect.  

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Troy
45 minutes ago, annali said:

Thank you for your views. I'm not in the US and wasn't aware of HOW badly Trump affects you and the relationships to your loved ones. I agree with you all. My post was definitely not meant as a licence to let abuse happen or a plea to stay in an unhealthy relationship or to apologise or support supremacy. 

When someone makes you feel bad or supports an abusive world view you should leave. 

I think I should have made my post clearer in that respect.  


Oh no no no, you were fine! It wasn’t that you weren’t clear, but that the subject, in general, is a good one to break down and consider more closely. Listening to people who have a different opinion, perspective, or values than you do is always good... UNLESS those opinions, perspectives, and values are about whether others should exist, be treated equally or protected from harm. So I actually agree with you overall, but on issues like Trump and Brexit, the subject is specifically about the supremacy of one kind of people over others. Hearing someone like that out is useless and unnecessary. If we have it in us to try to change their mind, I’m all for it, but just not as a general rule. I appreciated your post!

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Miizle
4 hours ago, Uma said:

Just a note: fb is not letting me post this! 

 I would guess it's because the algorithm is detecting swastikas. 

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