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Reparations for Black Americans and the African diaspora


avi
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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Avi,

 

I am just finding this group of forums.  I would be interested in reading your response from Michael.  I'm not so concerned about reparations as I am about the dismantling of racist practices and institutions and mindsets.

 

hugs!

 

Cheryl

old 4 scholar cast warrior

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  • 2 months later...

@Cheryl Varner ahh idk why i'm just seeing this!! i totally am all for it. but i don't think there can be a dismantling of those things without reparations especially in the sense that so much harm has been caused by those institutions and practices that have made it so that even without them, Black folx around the globe will be ill-advantaged. in the UK, citizens were paying reparations to former slave owners until 2018 i believe. haiti, the rest of the caribbean and liberated african countries still pay reparations to their former colonizers for daring to be free while being exploited by institutions like the world bank and US interventions against their best interests. to this day black americans are disenfranchised in so many areas and have been since reconstruction. i think that if holocaust survivors and survivors of japanese internment camps in the US were paid reparations, our people more than deserve and need them to move forward on a level playing field. 

 

this ted talk explains how it's affected african countries

 

 

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Did you ever ask Michael about this? I'm also curious to hear their thoughts.

 

I agree that reparations are due. I see it as a physical step toward balancing some of the collective karma incurred by decades of suffering. I truly believe that as our public discourse on the subject continues, the idea of reparations will become one of those no-brainer things we'll look back on from the future and wonder why it was so controversial. It just seems like a natural evolutionary step to me for the species. Both in helping to heal the past and in creating a more compassionate future.

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Surely if there is imbalance, reparations would help with achieving balance? Karmic oppression generates a huge need for achieving balance and a part of that has to be reparations and compensation....

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I’m also not all that concerned with reparations. It’s kinda like, too little too late. I think it’s too big a topic to navigate constructively and reaching consensus would be difficult. If we are talking about global reparations then it makes sense to me that each region might need and want different things. Hell, each person might need and want different things.  What we still don’t have enough of is representation (In all areas of life). Let’s fix those things. I think that would go a longer way towards healing. Well it would for me anyhow.

 

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i don’t think this is something that will be figured out in any short period of time. but i think representation is pretty low bar imo especially since we had a Black president of the free world and well...that did nothing really lol. but it’s not either/or to me. reparations to me includes system changes and representation and all of that. 

 

i do agree that it would need to be regional but i never believe that anything is too difficult or impossible. we never thought we’d see racial equality anytime soon and certainly didn’t think it’d start in this lifetime and look what one summer did according to our own teachers 😊😊an elephant is eaten one bite a time and there are plenty of people who wouldn't mind even the symbolism of reparations to close out this part of human history

 

it wouldn’t be easy. things that are worth it never are. but like becca and anna mentioned, i think i collective karma would make it make sense. i don’t even know if the answer would necessarily be financial 🤷🏾‍♀️ but the fact that the US or any other colonizing country has never even followed through on studying what it could look like is probably why it seems so daunting and unhelpful 

 

anyhoo it’s worth exploring😊 who knows what could come out of even serious conversations about it...i think dreaming small does the history of this oppression a disservice. this Ta’Nehisi Coates article from 2014 called “The Case for Reparations” def puts things into perspective for me

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/

 

 

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10 hours ago, avi said:

i don’t think this is something that will be figured out in any short period of time. but i think representation is pretty low bar imo especially since we had a Black president of the free world and well...that did nothing really lol. but it’s not either/or to me. reparations to me includes system changes and representation and all of that. 

 

i do agree that it would need to be regional but i never believe that anything is too difficult or impossible. we never thought we’d see racial equality anytime soon and certainly didn’t think it’d start in this lifetime and look what one summer did according to our own teachers 😊😊an elephant is eaten one bite a time and there are plenty of people who wouldn't mind even the symbolism of reparations to close out this part of human history

 

it wouldn’t be easy. things that are worth it never are. but like becca and anna mentioned, i think i collective karma would make it make sense. i don’t even know if the answer would necessarily be financial 🤷🏾‍♀️ but the fact that the US or any other colonizing country has never even followed through on studying what it could look like is probably why it seems so daunting and unhelpful 

 

anyhoo it’s worth exploring😊 who knows what could come out of even serious conversations about it...i think dreaming small does the history of this oppression a disservice. this Ta’Nehisi Coates article from 2014 called “The Case for Reparations” def puts things into perspective for me

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/

 


I don’t think money as a form of reparations is gonna cut it. No government could afford to pay every black citizen and what they could afford would be laughable and offensive. That’s why I think there’s no point to that. 
 

Representation = system changes. I’m not just talking about in the media. I mean it when I say all areas of life. In business, in education, in medicine, in politics, in technology. I mean, black people in positions of power, setting the stage and making the rules and doing the gate keeping for a change. Seeing yourself reflected everywhere is not a small thing. If black kids can see themselves reflected in all areas of life it would help their self esteem. They wouldn’t feel limited and they would dream bigger. They need to be able to see beyond their neighborhoods. I
 

Having one black president great but it is just a start. Was it a blip in history or a true breakthrough? Can their be another one? We still don’t have racial equality. One summer hasn’t changed this fact. At all. I’m still gonna get treated like I’m stupid by white doctors. I’m still gonna have my judgement questioned by white guys at work. What would be helpful to me is an official apology from the US government over the hundreds of years of slavery, Jim Crow, and redlining among other things. That would just be a start. If you want to call that reparations then fine. 

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@ckaricai obviously one summer has not changed our everyday existence as black people. i was referring to the july energy report (i believe that's what month it was) when michael said the actions this past summer completely changed the game and accelerated racial equality in ways that cannot be stopped.

 

i'm not sure what you're disagreeing with here since the only thing we've said differently was financial compensation. i already said that having a black president was didn't really do anything in the grand scheme. and i know what you meant by representation. as i've said, i think that's all included in what would be reparations. i personally could give a damn about an official apology without systemic changes and compensation in the form of land, money, and power seeing as how the western world is very good at paying lip service without doing anything to change the daily and material lives of the people they exploit

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Gotta say, I can't imagine living under capitalism and feeling like more money wouldn't make a difference LOL. And it doesn't have to be tracking down every single descendants of slaves in the country and cutting them a check. Black Americans could receive tax codes that would make them exempt from sales and income taxes, they could be allowed free rides to state and private colleges, they could get free government-paid quality legal representation, they could be given free land or the government could foot the bill on some kind of First Home initiative. There's a million ways to make this happen. The last thing we should be saying is "too little too late." It's never too late to make things right, especially as it affects our bottom financial lines. 

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Have any of you heard the podcast Nice White Parents? It's an exploration of racial inquality in New York City public schools, going back to the middle of the last century, up to now, focusing on a couple of specific schools. One thing that came up multiple times was a vast discrepancy in how white parents and school officials viewed addressing this inequality - a sort of a "kumbaya" mentality, to put it very briefly - and the way Black and Latinx parents did. The latter group repeatedly said that what they wanted was *equity*, and they meant it in pragmatic, specific ways. Equity in resources. Meanwhile the nice white parents of Brooklyn waste everyone's time with good intentions that, intentionally or not, allow them not to look at the massive, child-endangering structural inequality right in front of them. I bring this up here because this conversation makes me think of that, of what it really means to address inequity.

 

My grandparents received some reparations from the German government for the Shoah. I didn't know that until around the time of their deaths, so I never got the chance to ask them if it helped, or meant anything to them. I wonder, though, if reparations for 400 years of enslavement and its consequences is something quite different than those given to living survivors of an atrocity. I feel, instinctively, like reparations are an important piece of taking apart this horrible structure, but beyond that I am not qualified to speak. Only to say I hate living in a country built on and by white supremacy, and if dismantling it dismantles the country itself, welp.

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2 hours ago, avi said:

@ckaricai obviously one summer has not changed our everyday existence as black people. i was referring to the july energy report (i believe that's what month it was) when michael said the actions this past summer completely changed the game and accelerated racial equality in ways that cannot be stopped.

 

i'm not sure what you're disagreeing with here since the only thing we've said differently was financial compensation. i already said that having a black president was didn't really do anything in the grand scheme. and i know what you meant by representation. as i've said, i think that's all included in what would be reparations. i personally could give a damn about an official apology without systemic changes and compensation in the form of land, money, and power seeing as how the western world is very good at paying lip service without doing anything to change the daily and material lives of the people they exploit

You used the words dreaming smal, which I took to mean you thought me wanting representation wasn’t enough of an ask. I didn’t realize you were talking about the July energy report. I was thinking about everything that happened this summer with the police. 

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1 hour ago, CurvyWords said:

Gotta say, I can't imagine living under capitalism and feeling like more money wouldn't make a difference LOL. And it doesn't have to be tracking down every single descendants of slaves in the country and cutting them a check. Black Americans could receive tax codes that would make them exempt from sales and income taxes, they could be allowed free rides to state and private colleges, they could get free government-paid quality legal representation, they could be given free land or the government could foot the bill on some kind of First Home initiative. There's a million ways to make this happen. The last thing we should be saying is "too little too late." It's never too late to make things right, especially as it affects our bottom financial lines. 


I would think the federal government would pass the responsibility off to the states who would all come up with different rules and the most we’d get is like a check for $100. That doesn’t even cover my phone bill. Like great, here take this $100 bucks as a way to say we’re sorry for hundreds of years of oppression. That’s just insulting. I mean it’s just an example but I think that is what I think about. I don’t think we’d get enough to make enough of a difference.  I also wouldn’t want land unless free meant no property taxes for forever, no mortgage, no banks, and they pay for the real estate agents and lawyers. 100% free and clear. But that’s never gonna happen. The lengths that whites have gone through to keep us out of the voting booth and out of schools, and out of property ownership...And Look at what white republicans just did to the tax code. My taxes went up this year. They did this to their own too. There’s no way we’d get exempted from income taxes for life. 
 

Free college is a great idea. But it should be free for everyone like it is in other counties. No sales tax is also a great idea but those things are never gonna happen. I just don’t want to bother about stuff that is not in the realm of possibility. Call me pessimistic I guess. 
 

But,
 

...Just today, an email from a coworker about Colorlines’ upcoming conference on race did remind me that restorative justice is a thing and I should research that more. The timing was serendipitous perhaps. It’s likely that if reparations has a chance to be a reality it would come through restorative justice practices. 

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53 minutes ago, Leela Corman said:

Have any of you heard the podcast Nice White Parents? It's an exploration of racial inquality in New York City public schools, going back to the middle of the last century, up to now, focusing on a couple of specific schools. One thing that came up multiple times was a vast discrepancy in how white parents and school officials viewed addressing this inequality - a sort of a "kumbaya" mentality, to put it very briefly - and the way Black and Latinx parents did. The latter group repeatedly said that what they wanted was *equity*, and they meant it in pragmatic, specific ways. Equity in resources. Meanwhile the nice white parents of Brooklyn waste everyone's time with good intentions that, intentionally or not, allow them not to look at the massive, child-endangering structural inequality right in front of them. I bring this up here because this conversation makes me think of that, of what it really means to address inequity.

 

My grandparents received some reparations from the German government for the Shoah. I didn't know that until around the time of their deaths, so I never got the chance to ask them if it helped, or meant anything to them. I wonder, though, if reparations for 400 years of enslavement and its consequences is something quite different than those given to living survivors of an atrocity. I feel, instinctively, like reparations are an important piece of taking apart this horrible structure, but beyond that I am not qualified to speak. Only to say I hate living in a country built on and by white supremacy, and if dismantling it dismantles the country itself, welp.


I haven’t heard this podcast. But after working in a NYC public high school I can’t even find all the words I do need to explain how fucked up the education system is here. And how kids in the hood get nothing in terms of resources. I’m not even exaggerating. My classroom was empty except for a few tables and chairs and there was nothing else in it. Also, being in Manhattan and seeing how a literal couple of blocks changes what resources two schools get is infuriating. The school system here is the most segregated in the entire country. It’s crazy. 

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On 8/8/2020 at 7:36 PM, avi said:

anger points to where we feel powerless


This is so profound. It totally makes sense. Thank you for sharing this

Also I see that you mentioned Texas. If you grew up in Texas I would have loved to be your friend since I also grew up there 🙂

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  • 2 months later...

You have to understand that black people by and large are infant souls to very early baby souls. While slavery was exploitative, it was actually a very good thing overall. It was a way for the infant soul to have safety and security. They were given homes, food, healthcare, clothing, protection from the wild elements of african life. Due to the relative soul age, the core of the black community is highly suggestive as all infant souls are and their cultural milieu as it stands in the present comes from a place of dark intentions of subversion and destruction. Those guiding the black community, democrats mainly, are often acting out of late baby. As you can see in the push towards violent collectivism and manipulative tactics of mixing race and economics.

 

Democrats, or the generic left, used to be early to mid mature. Thats is NOT the case anymore. They are now mostly baby. They should terrify you to your core if you know even the slighest thing about 20th century history. Collectivism can be mature and positive (although nauseating) or it can be baby soul. When its baby soul, its usually violent as BLM has shown itself to be. It protects criminality and exploits baby soul sociopathy inherent in the black community as the infant/baby soul black youth are being told that criminal behaviour is justified in a war on white/conservatism. Petty acts of criminality are revolutionary acts. This of course is juvenile narcissism and naivety very much classic of baby soul age self-righteousness.

 

Much like everything in the world there is both things outside of our control and also things inside our control. Economic states are not all or nothing outside ones control. We are in the most easy time in human history to make a good living for ourselves and still blaming outside politics soley on our state of poverty is the height of absurd that comes from learned helplessness. "The system is against you, dont even try" is the pathology that holds the black community down first and foremost. While ironically having a better life now than ever before. Those pushing this pathology onto the baby souls are not benevolent.

Edited by Dayrl
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@Dayrl nope. Did Trump and QAnon pay you to post your thoughts here?

You are not doing a convincing job of inculcating the Michael Teachings on your point of view. All that is coming across is more denigration and deliberate hostility and masked hate speech towards People of Colour.

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  • WARRIOR
5 hours ago, Dayrl said:

You have to understand that black people by and large are infant souls to very early baby souls.

That alone lets us know that you have no knowledge of the Michael Teachings. Aside from being totally wrong, you are also expressing such ridiculous racist views that nobody here can tolerate. 

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Prior to today and during historic mass slavery, the "Black Race" used to be primarily Mature, with the "White Race" primarily Young - but after freedom+rights were secured, the dynamic of the Black Population shifted towards Young who would take advantage of that freedom, and more Whites became Mature.

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Wow do I smell a troll. “Slavery was actually a very good thing overall.” He’s not worth arguing with, folks. He knows what he’s doing.

 

We’re not interested in your racist QAnon bullshit, kid. And we’re not rising to your bait. Sorry. The world has outgrown you.

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This person has the distinction of having their future posts moderated before they are allowed to post. 

I reported them to team TLE as like you Becca, I smell racism and that is never ok. 

Edited by AnnaD
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8 hours ago, Dayrl said:

if you know even the slighest thing about 20th century history.

and a know it all who's gonna school all us ignoramuses.

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@Dayrl

I just checked your profile here to get some insight into just what kind of person would come to your position, and well...

It's awfully conspicuous that you'd join, not say anything for half a year, then only make a single post at the end of the presidential primary season advocating for people here to vote for Donald Trump.  You stayed in silence for the rest of the year until today, a few days after the failed coup attempt of a bunch of authoritarian cult members, where you specifically try to make some sort of counter Black Lives Matter case.  I understand many authoritarians and baby-soul construct-minded individuals like to compare events

I really only have one line of questioning for you, and I hope you'll oblige:
Where do you get your news from?  I'm very curious.  As far as news goes, I've heard One America News Network is pretty popular.  If not there, I'm curious as to where your information comes from.  I'm sure a knowledgeable Michael student will understand the value of validation and honesty, so please help me validate your claims.

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  • HOST & RESIDENT CHANNEL

For all of you who witnessed the reply from that racist piece of shit "dayrl," they have been banned from TLE. 

 

I know some of you are more willing than others to engage and help educate bigots, or you may feel that it is short-sighted to reject bigots who may be able to learn from all of you, so if that is something that matters to you, please track them down and continue your conversations on your own. But this community will never host bigots or the soul-sucking conversations that naturally erupt when they "express their opinion." Dealing with bigots is something we have to do in nearly every area of life, even here, but in this particular shared social and study space, you will never have to endure it.

 

We all know when someone is misspeaking, or revealing a blind spot, or needing insight regarding sensitive issues and these situations will be dealt with in care, patience, and kindness. We also know when someone has already drawn conclusions and have built up a belief system and world view rooted in bigotry and will not benefit from our efforts.

 

I hope you trust my call when I bring down the ban hammer.

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