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I've never felt so compelled to share an artist - * Dimash Kudaibergen (Qudaibergen)*


Miizle
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Interestingly, I was listening to this song and he did his growling for a little bit😂. I really like the duet ! Both are super talented, but trained in very different styles. I think Dimash is more of a baritone with incredible range? I remember reading that some Mongolian/Tuvan singers are tenors who can do the throat singing which give them crazy range. Our bodies are truly amazing.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Delphi said:

@Cong and @Becca the Student yeah, I picked up that he was being careful to protect his vocal chords and not doing what many pop singers do which is strain way too much and place the larynx too high. I do know the rudiments of singing stuff, like different voice mixes and passages, how singers ‘place’ their voices - like nearer the nasal cavity or highe up in the head, and been reading more about breath support recently. Nowhere near professionally trained (or any kind of training) in singing though apart from perfect pitch. Thanks for sharing about the glottals, that’s a new and interesting piece of information to me. (do you mind telling me how healthy growling would work and who pulls that off well?)

What I was trying to express goes beyond inducing raspiness or artficially shutting the vocal chords, and goes more along the lines of his overall style and demeanor, which is reflected by how his voice naturally sounds (shape of vocal chords/skull) is very smooth, but maybe not distinctive or unique enough for my tastes. That’s probably just me speaking though, there’s the similar body type/energy thing which probably means he would not be as striking to me as to someone with more complementary traits.

That said, I did loop him for hours and still have Samal Tau stuck in my head. I also may or may not have googled whether he was married...

 

Lol @ the googling. There's no problem with not resonating with his voice. This is just my own self talking, but I think we like the voices we (literally) resonate best with, in terms of our Frequency. There's also a reason a lot of singers fake grit in current contemporary music today: even if they can't maintain that cool voice forever, imperfections and distortion in a voice connect more with a modern audience than an undistorted voice, because we recognize vocal distortion as a sign of emotion (our throat constricts when we cry, for example). There's no shame in enjoying that!

 

Healthy growling would be using either what we call the "false" vocal chords, which lie above your actual vocal chords, or using the very back of the tongue. It's kind of like what we do in Semitic languages to do our gutteral "ch" sounds, or in our languages like Thai with those rolling "r"s. The false vocal chords are the muscles that activate first when we swallow, the muscles throat-singers use to get the kind of awesome sounds and pitches they reach. You don't want to go too deep in the throat or you'll injure something -- a lot of professionally-trained singers even avoid clearing the throat in every day conversation or say, if they have a cold, because doing so is hard on the actual vocal chords and might cause damage or tears in the muscle. These are things you don't have to worry about if you're not regularly using your voice as an instrument, but if you are, you're regularly using your false chords and tongue placement to restrict and redirect air flow, which is a lot of work for those poor muscles to keep up with.

 

A lot of gospel singers growl healthily. Because it's part of the singing tradition, they build up the necessary muscle. Beyonce, Jessie J, or Christina Aguilera, in the pop tradition, usually use the false vocal chords to growl. Basically, if you're listening to someone growl and want to do if they're doing so healthily, the distortion should sound as full as the rest of the voice; you can tell if someone's using the wrong part of the muscle or straining for the distortion by looking at how strained their throat looks. If it doesn't look like it's moving much, their singing is very kind on their vocal chords. But even healthy growling is something you kind of need to do sparingly, or you risk damaging the false vocal chords, and thus your pitch.

 

The growling Dimash does in that new clip Cong shared is the same technique, just with less voice and more breath. Also based on his vocal tone, I'd agree that he sounds like a baritenor with a huge head voice range he uses to mix some of those high belts. (Also, love his duet partner!! He's got a cool sound: it looks like he's using his mask and false chords to get that cool high pitch.)

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@Cong That song made me 'get' the growling. As you can see in my original post, i didn't understand it, i thought it was weird, some kind of a... male thing i will never understand 😂 But hee in this song, it sounds awesomeee and suddenly i'm like yep, totally get it now.One more to the list of things i didn't like but now do, and there are quite a few...

 

BTW did you watch the Digital Show?? I'm in awe at the new songs!!! Yes, i always knew he should compose more. He's got a really good brain for it, the mixing of stuff in Be with me is just genius (and a little weird, i like being surprised, although the elements per se don't surprise me even if the take on all of them was kinda new, too; MJ style beat and melody, classical bit, central Asian/middle eastern bit, rap, low bit, and Jordan made lyrics again 😆 (she did Give Me Your Love) This sexy side of Dimash is always such a surprise yet not a surprise. (The visuals for this song tho so much of a surprise that i'm kinda still laughing).

 

He has very prominent Pluto in his natal chart even if he's a Gemini, and ever since i saw his chart i have been predicting the provocativeness as well as the black leather outfits in addition to the general deep interpretations are going to gradually become more and more prominent in his style and i don't think i'm wrong.

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5 hours ago, Becca the Student said:

 

(Also, love his duet partner!! He's got a cool sound: it looks like he's using his mask and false chords to get that cool high pitch.)

 'He' is actually a she playing a male role, it's a Chinese opera thing 

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14 hours ago, Delphi said:

That said, I did loop him for hours and still have Samal Tau stuck in my head. I also may or may not have googled whether he was married...


I understand this. 😆

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On 1/15/2021 at 10:37 PM, Delphi said:

I’ve taken a brief look at your posts and it seems you’re high male energy and you mentioned feeling disconnected from your emotions and not knowing what you feel at times? Maybe that’s why he affects you in an especially deep way, he’s like a giant water cannon of emotion.

 

Yes, i think so too! The whole thing has helped me tremendeously dealing with my imprinting as well, figuring out this side of the 4th IM. My imprinting is a lot about shame and embarrasment and privacy around showing positive emotions like love , appreciation and gratitude, and any kind of strong emotional attachment. 

 

@DelphiOkay i see what you mean now about wider emotional range. (Nargiz Zakirova, what an interesting looking artist, i will remember her and check her out better one day!) Also from your selection of Di favourites i think i can see what appeals to you more. I've been thinking about this and while i for a while thought you had a point i kind of agreed with, i have now arrived to the conclusion that i agree with myself rather 😄 I think the fact of the matter is that his vocal quality simply is smooth. His emotional delivery, if it was done with a naturally rougher voice, i'd say would not be lacking in the grime department at all especially if you listen to the right songs and not the mellow ballads. I'm not sure how much more emotional range and depth a person can give without losing composure.  Sometimes it's like he's in a trance already. Maybe i'm yet not understanding your point, but yeah to me it seems that the quality of his voice and his art renders to this kind of an outcome. Like a figureskater who would give their most grimy heartfelt performance, they would still be skating upright, they would still do pirouettes and jumps. A different type of a performance artist may roll and crawl on the ice or even take their iceskates off altogether but that is just different type of art. A highly trained champion ice-skater might add some cool out-of-the-box elements to their show, but it would seem counter-productive, or at least very unlikely, for them to completely change what they're doing. Well, this is how i see it, i think anyway XD That said, i would like to see an ice show where they do any movement they want to , but i'd only pay admission if i knew they were going to do their best skating with their best technique, too, and most importantly, what comes most naturally to them.

 

You probably just don't like smooth voice as much as rough voice. To me his voice is like melted chocolate dripping from the sky and i enjoy melted chocolate dripping from the sky 😄 Although i definitely do enjoy some random crunchy bits too. In the most recent show by Dimash that i have now been re-watching, he has added a bit more of that. Especally after the halfway mark it's brilliant stuff, he's giving his all. Don't know if you have $20 spare but it's still available for 6 more days for unlimited replay  (and the charity is a non-profit medical equipment supplier).

 

BTW that iD album was made for the Chinese audience really, and it's a pretty subdued selection indeed. It's interesting how he's managed to create a career with pretty big concerts in many countries without really making albums. The whole set-up is highly unusual and thankfully allows him great creative freedom.

(For those interested, how i understand it, is that while Dimash was a child his young parents were able to create singing careers for themselves (thanks to his gransparents taking care of Dimash) and eventually became famous and ended up in all sorts of cultural positions in the country. Dimash has been super hard-working since the beginning (he's known he wanted to be a singer as long as he can remember and aimed for that with conviction even as a child) but also by the time he was old enough to pursue it professionally his parents and their friends and associates had built this network of collaborators that he could utilise as well. He's always been able to give 100% towards his dream, which is still not to say it hasn't been hard work because it has, but it has been greatly supported. It was still until 2019 that he did singing competitions to advance his international career, thankfully those times are behind now and he can just concentrate on creating. Almost all his content is produced by DimashAli Creative Centre, which was founded by his dad and his dad's friend. Currently the whole family is regarded music and cultural royalty in Kazakstan. On Independence day in December Dimash received two medals for contributions towards the culture and unity of the country, his mother also received one, as did his sound producer... There's a painting of all significant people of the country, it might have been that it's in the President's office, and Dimash is in front row....  His situation is truly unique. The thing is, he doesn't need to worry about being dumped by a record lable. But he does need to worry about shaming his country in any way...... He's on a very visible pedestal.)

 

 

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17 hours ago, Hjortur said:

@MiizleThank you for sharing Dimash music, I have been listening for hours now! Incredible voice range and what a performance, all these strange marvelous instruments and costumes!

 

You are most welcome!! I'm very happy to hear that! 😊 Feel free to share what you enjoy best, it's interesting to me 😄 

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Hmmm I might check it out! I really do enjoy his performances a lot and I think he’s a genius. And you know, smooth chocolate can be nice too, especially if you look past the form into the underlying ingredients. I think his passion and how enraptured he is when he performs is one of the things I like most about him, I can relate to your imprinting somewhat regarding shame and reserved expression. Fun fact my psyche (asteroid) is conjunct his moon and pluto...he does feel familiar to me for sure. Also shoutout to @Miizle and @SunSand fellow C1E3 members! 
And yes, I enjoy his work on iD less with the exception of a few songs, I think pop suits him less tbh at least very conventional sounding love songs, he needs something that allows more room for more unstructured performances imo where he has more room to show his creative talents.  Yeah hahah I really like works where people sound like theyre losing their minds or almost in an ecstatic frenzy. Like Metallica’s Enter Sandman (that obsessive riff) or BTS’ Dionysus. I very much love the sentiment in one of the lines of the song - “There is art at the bottom of a cup”.

Also check out this piece by wild jazz pianist Hiromi who does a lot of classical crossover work too:

 

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10 hours ago, Becca the Student said:

 

Lol @ the googling. There's no problem with not resonating with his voice. This is just my own self talking, but I think we like the voices we (literally) resonate best with, in terms of our Frequency. There's also a reason a lot of singers fake grit in current contemporary music today: even if they can't maintain that cool voice forever, imperfections and distortion in a voice connect more with a modern audience than an undistorted voice, because we recognize vocal distortion as a sign of emotion (our throat constricts when we cry, for example). There's no shame in enjoying that!

 

Healthy growling would be using either what we call the "false" vocal chords, which lie above your actual vocal chords, or using the very back of the tongue. It's kind of like what we do in Semitic languages to do our gutteral "ch" sounds, or in our languages like Thai with those rolling "r"s. The false vocal chords are the muscles that activate first when we swallow, the muscles throat-singers use to get the kind of awesome sounds and pitches they reach. You don't want to go too deep in the throat or you'll injure something -- a lot of professionally-trained singers even avoid clearing the throat in every day conversation or say, if they have a cold, because doing so is hard on the actual vocal chords and might cause damage or tears in the muscle. These are things you don't have to worry about if you're not regularly using your voice as an instrument, but if you are, you're regularly using your false chords and tongue placement to restrict and redirect air flow, which is a lot of work for those poor muscles to keep up with.

 

A lot of gospel singers growl healthily. Because it's part of the singing tradition, they build up the necessary muscle. Beyonce, Jessie J, or Christina Aguilera, in the pop tradition, usually use the false vocal chords to growl. Basically, if you're listening to someone growl and want to do if they're doing so healthily, the distortion should sound as full as the rest of the voice; you can tell if someone's using the wrong part of the muscle or straining for the distortion by looking at how strained their throat looks. If it doesn't look like it's moving much, their singing is very kind on their vocal chords. But even healthy growling is something you kind of need to do sparingly, or you risk damaging the false vocal chords, and thus your pitch.

 

The growling Dimash does in that new clip Cong shared is the same technique, just with less voice and more breath. Also based on his vocal tone, I'd agree that he sounds like a baritenor with a huge head voice range he uses to mix some of those high belts. (Also, love his duet partner!! He's got a cool sound: it looks like he's using his mask and false chords to get that cool high pitch.)

Fascinating, thanks for the breakdown. Would gargling count as healthy or unhealthy growling?

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6 hours ago, Delphi said:

Fascinating, thanks for the breakdown. Would gargling count as healthy or unhealthy growling?

Gargling is healthy! Those are the false chords. 🙂 Basically, what constitutes as healthy is whatever feels easy and relaxed. A great questions to ask while you're singing is "does my throat feel tight or open? Does this feel painful?" Singing is just sending air through the vibration of the vocal chords: the more relaxed your throat is, the more space the vocal chords have to vibrate, the easier it is to bring that vibrating air forward and up into the mask, the more resonant the sound. If singing ever feels strained or tight, there's probably some tensing of the musculature happening, usually in anticipation of damaging something.

 

Also, quick disclaimer, I'm trained, but I'm not a professional teacher -- I'm just parroting my vocal coach. Feel free to fact-check all this with a person who actually holds a doctorate. Also I'm not a big fan of shaming singers for unhealthy vocal technique, so I'm not sharing this to say singers who aren't singing sustainably are bad. Anyone is allowed to sing however they choose to!

 

EDIT to say I guess it depends on where you gargle, actually? But if you're gargling in that grey area between the back of the tongue and the top of the throat, those are your false chords. Generally, if you're doing anything with water or liquid, you're fine. With air, you want to keep it to the false chords.

Edited by Becca the Student
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  • 2 months later...

EDIT: BTW, I recommend this song (/album) by Hua Chenuy in general, for people to listen to, it's really awesome. He's a good songwriter and a good singer, he can do some pretty varied stuff.

 

@Delphi First of all, I apologise for taking 3 months to reply! I wanted to listen to the songs but had all sorts of reasons / excuses /forgetfulness /reasons. Just listened to them finally, and i totally get your point. I would LOVE to hear a song like Dionysus from Dimash. He could really do with some material with modern "grittier" touch, I understand this better now and have actually been discussing this with some other people in the meanwhile. I love almost every single one of his songs, but in some cases it's because he put magic in them with his voice, rather than the songs being so good. I DO love many of his songs for the songs, too though, i love the central Asian stuff a lot, and i have a soft spot for Slavic melancholy in me.
But I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE for him to sing something like this (this is a Chinese singer Hua Chenuy):

 

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  • 1 year later...

The king has spoken with his new anti-war song, "The Story of One Sky".

It's a darker song with a cinematic vision. The second part is quite mystical and it looks like the MV is hinting on reincarnation believes and truly, "we are all connected": past, present, or future.

I've never heard of him singing like the ending part here. Astonishing and powerful with a fully opened heart and Soul. It will take me a while to calm down after seeing this performance.

And here is the lyrics. I almost feel he channeled the IS here, in an effort to shed a light on the path to a better solution and a better future. It fits his teaching position (King cast+7th level) well. 

 

"Can't believe what's happening at all

Piper's crazy, we're bound to fall

We are the reason, we are causing all

that pain

To the sacred womb that gave us life

Billions of hearts,

Billions of cells and souls and dreams

Billions of lives

Shouldn't ever turn to senseless horror

 

So, tears and blood

Won't follow death

They should flow

With tears of Life

With blood of birth, they flow

 

Last chance is here

Can we balance on the edge of fiery

grave?

Our future, is it possible to save?

So, when our crazy Piper's failing

We decide to stop the trailing

We decide to follow the light

We are making final turn to right

We are choosing life

We are choosing life

 

Learn to share again

Learn to share again the love, not shares

Learn to live again

We have passed the moment of

"Imagine"

World is the feast -

Do we have to starve?

 

Time is up

It's time to save

To save the Earth,

The Earth...

Here is last chance

 

Can we balance on the edge of fiery

grave?

Our future, is it possible to save?

So, when our crazy Piper's failing

We decide to stop the trailing

We decide to follow the light

 

Here is last chance

Can we balance on the brink of fiery

grave?

Our future, is it possible to save?

So, when our crazy Piper's failing

We decide to stop the trailing

We're making final turn from wrong to right

Just our final turn from wrong to right

We are choosing Life

We are choosing Life

 

Here is last chance

Pipers lead us to the slaughter long

enough

Staring down from the bluff we are here,

Time to wake, it's not a moment left to

lose

Night is falling, fate is tightening the

noose

So, when our leaders failing

We decide to stop the trailing

We are making final turn to right

 

We're choosing life

(x6)

 

We're choosing life"

 

 

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