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Jean-François Lozevis

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Jean-François Lozevis

This post will validate at once my agression mode and my skeptic attitude.

 

If the universe follows the rules of MT teachings, then it should have been the way for thousands of years. Then, why the MT teachings are so new? They should also have been known for thousands of years. And I'm skeptic about the "neatness" of these teachings with their beautiful numbers: I don't believe deeply that life is so well ordered; there are always exceptions to the rules. The rule is maybe that most things are exceptions.

Though, I really like MT teachings: luminous but talking also of the dark side of the life. I validated many of the points of the chart I asked 5 years ago to Shepherd Hoodwin though it was hard to be all right with the fact I'm a King/Honorary priest: that seemed so far from my real life.

Though 2, for me MT teachings remains my main belief system with Kabbalah Angels.

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Manshuk

I can very much relate to your questioning, as a fellow agression mode holder, although I have discrimination as my goal that can look like skeptic.
I think that perhaps they were indeed taught in history, but under a different name. Maybe the channels didn't know about a certain "Michael", and perhaps they did not even mention any name to the entity either. Of course, there's no way we will know for sure, so we can only theorize.

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Jean-François Lozevis

In fact I did not really talk about Michael itself but about its teachings: were there teachings in the past talking about overleaves, roles, entities and all the pretty things Michael talks about?

I think not. But atoms and quantum mechanics have also been known for one century...

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Cong

Michael teaching is never new. In fact there are a lot of sessions talking about early history between Michael and their students. @Jeroen has a lot of good exchange with Michael on this topic.

Some good example I remember are: the oracles of Delphi, some Egyptian gods (forgot which one..), the Inner Canon of the Yellow Emperor(a book on Chinese medicine channeled by Michael students), and medium circles in 19 century Germany. They all represent Michael's teaching.

It will be helpful to consider that teachings come in many forms and through many mediums. It can be grand, formal and public, and can be private and intimate too. Also different time period may have different focus depending on the technology and medias available.

Label is not important, they don't have to called themselves Michael to teach truth, love and beauty.

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Becca the Student

I appreciate a healthy dose of skepticism, and I think this is something you might have to work to validate on your own. The concepts within the Michael teachings can be found in other ancient teachings; in Taoism, in Hinduism especially, in parts of Buddhism, in parts of ancient Greek philosophy, in parts of Ancient Egyptian philosophy, etc. @Cong has a great list above, too.

 

If it's the terms you're having trouble with validating, those terms are indeed fairly modern. That's because terms evolve over time -- "Slave" turning into "Server" being one example, "Feminine/Masculine" turning into "Creative/Focused" being another. The terminology used in the current iteration of Michael's teachings is a translation, or codification, of the concepts they're trying to convey and teach us. The terms were created for our convenience as students -- but it's limited to what we're able to conceive and understand in the time and place we're learning.

 

If you're drawn to these Teachings but need more proof they're universal truths, I encourage you to look up the above examples and see if you can validate some of the structure Michael teaches. If you can't validate those truths and don't feel comfortable continuing with the teachings, then that's fair, too! As Michael says: all is choice. 😉

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Evelin
5 hours ago, Jean-François Lozevis said:

In fact I did not really talk about Michael itself but about its teachings: were there teachings in the past talking about overleaves, roles, entities and all the pretty things Michael talks about?

I think not. But atoms and quantum mechanics have also been known for one century...

 

You ask good questions.

Here's a link to a session I had with Michael about my history with them as a student: my history with M

 

If you know some Ancient Greek philosophy, you may recall the Cynics, Stoics etc. Those are clearly the Attitudes of the Michael Teachings.

You might also recall the ideas some Greek philosophers had about social roles (poets, priests, rulers etc.), clearly those were originally meant as Roles in Essence and got muddied with personal interpretations over time.

Michael has also said they have never been able to teach so clearly until now, past attempts were either distorted at delivery because of religious systems or became distorted over time.

Edited by Evelin
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petra

@Jean-François Lozevis Here is an excerpt of a Michael Session via Troy, that might be of interest for you:

 

Session 2-4-20 TLErs 350BCE

petra

Hello Michael via Troy!

This session is about TLE Members and our lifetime 350 BCE associated with Taoist philosophy.

 

MEntity

Taoism is not our teaching, but because there is only one true teaching, any variation of that teaching will be in harmony. When we say there is only one true teaching, we mean that there are many ways to teach the same truths that are universal. We were able to "piggy back" on Taoism because its core is about how to live life in harmony with nature, or in natural harmony.

We were able to contribute concepts that were seeds to what we now refer to as Monads, both internal and external.

We were able to contribute concepts that were related to the Higher Moving Center and Moving Center and how these function.

MEntity

We were able to contribute a great deal regarding what we refer to now as the broader state of Agape, but we focused on the Goal of Flow as a path, with as much detail as we could regarding how Flow uses (slides to) Acceptance, Discrimination, Growth, Re-evaluation, Dominance, and Submission.

MEntity

We did our best to help our students understand that they are a PART of nature, not APART from nature.

MEntity

The concepts of Cadres and Entities came through, but with no details, only the idea that others are not merely props in world, but are reflections of you and teachers for you, and vice versa, and that there is no way to disconnect from collective consciousness.

MEntity

Taoism is one of the first times we could freely offer our teaching using the power of words and metaphors as a vehicle for the student to unpack concepts on their own. Metaphors can be powerful concentrations of insight that cannot be explained in detailed forms.

MEntity

Those are some examples of what we were able to bring to our students through their passion for Taoism.

 

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Eric

Everyone above has pretty well mentioned the answers I know of to that question. The MT is a vehicle, one of many possible frameworks/systems for organizing and understanding the world we perceive. As you mentioned, much like atoms have existed even before we knew them as such, or gravity has existed even before we recognized it as such, so do the broad and basic ideas of the MT exist even though we may not have always known them as such. As mentioned above, many of the concepts have been known and explored for ages to different degrees under various systems. To get at the original question of "Why now?" for the Michael Teachings, it's pretty much just because now is when the circumstances exist for this particular vehicle to come into being. It builds off existing terminology (e.g. the concept of Centering and Parts of centering is actually a borrowing from the works of Gurdjieff) and through its own evolution has become this particular lens to make sense of the world.

As for the math and "beautiful numbers," those can seem deceptively simple. While they do outline general patterns and may appear neat and tidy, there are quite often quirks and exceptions (not all entities are a neat and tidy 1050 fragments, for example). They're kind of like "tuning systems" in music: they give a valid, logical form, work within the limitations of our instruments (i.e. our physical/mental capabilities), and make beautiful music, but however neat a tuning system is, there will always be quirks and exceptions because it is just one way of ordering the broad variety that is sound and music. Likewise, the general patterns in the numbers are valid, but as you say, life is not necessarily so well-ordered. Michael Math is also usually very abstract, so may not have much impact on our living experience...it's one of those grain-of-salt validation things.

All this said, it is always good to question and validate and keep one's mind sharp, but flexible. With multiple channels providing various sources of information in the MT alone, it's pretty much mandatory. If you like the MT, it's probably because some or all of it makes sense and is useful/valid to you, here and now (which of course could always change, given evolution and choice and all). But the age of the current teachings need not negate that nor invalidate its broader underpinnings.

Edited by Eric
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Heidi
18 hours ago, Becca the Student said:

The terminology used in the current iteration of Michael's teachings is a translation, or codification, of the concepts they're trying to convey and teach us. 

 

This reminds me of the first verse of the Tao Te Ching:

 

1st Verse

           The Tao that can be told, is not the eternal Tao.

The name that can be named; is not the eternal name.

The Tao is both named and nameless

As nameless it is the origin of all things;

as named it is the Mother of 10,000 things.

Ever desireless, one can see the mystery;

ever desiring, one sees only the manifestations.

And the mystery itself is the doorway

to all understanding.

Lao-tzu

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Jeroen

This excerpt is from a session with Michael where they spoke of how their teachings exist as part of our future in relationship to other teachings and how their teachings are based on the one True teaching.

 

"MEntity By 2100 a project has been in place that cross-references every teaching known to Humans. It uses an algorithm that is able to sort out elements that are different from every other teaching, and correlate all that is similar.

 

MEntity We have always said there is only one True teaching, but this is not to say that our teaching is the only truth, but that the truth does not change even when taught in other ways. Love One Another, Know Thyself, Practice Non-Attachment, etc. are Truths. All teachings that have sustained a high degree of Truth are archived and accessible to the masses as an example of the resilience of truth, and this teaching is included."

 

All the responses here are excellent. I would only add that I have found that the Michael teachings are more beneficial when it can be applied in some meaningful way in my life. The same could be said for any teaching. It is through applying a teaching that validation may occur and then that teaching will have more meaning than it otherwise would have had if simply reading the material and moving on. It is through applying what was learned that the opportunity opens up to build upon what was learned before.

Edited by Jeroen
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Maureen
23 minutes ago, Jeroen said:

All the responses here are excellent. I would only add that I have found that the Michael teachings are more beneficial when it can be applied in some meaningful way in my life. The same could be said for any teaching. It is through applying a teaching that validation may occur and then that teaching will have more meaning than it otherwise would have had if simply reading the material and moving on. It is through applying what was learned that the opportunity opens up to build upon what was learned before.

 

@Jeroen, yes... simply, yes. ♥

 

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Christian
On 1/23/2021 at 1:40 PM, Jean-François Lozevis said:

were there teachings in the past talking about overleaves, roles, entities and all the pretty things Michael talks about?

 

TLDR;  Hinduism is a codification of the over leave system corrupted by power structures.  Be skeptical and remember that includes being skeptical of you skepticism.

 

****full long post****

 

In fact there are.

 

The entire Hindu religion and caste system is based on an IS manifestation and the overleaf system.  The castes were literally the overleaves.

 

However, they were codified and made rigid by the religious power structure at the time.  This was then used to force people into orderly places in society for easier control by political rulers.

 

@Anirudh Ramachandrandid an excellent dive into Hinduism and the Micheal teachings based on a passage in the Messages from Micheal books.

 

**

 

Changing gears a bit. I have the attitude of Skeptic as well.

 

It all looks to ordered to neat. Honestly, I don't care about the micheal math.  The reason being there is no tangible way for me to validate it.  I also have no interest in validating it.

 

But I am not skeptical of it.

 

I want through a time as fanboy of the new atheist movement. The amount of bullshit spewed by those people was covered by a veneer of true statements.  They were, and still are, more interested in owning the Christians than actually promoting truth.

 

During my time in that world, I was still reading the posts here but was gradually pulling away from it. 

 

Until my skepticism set in.  

 

Why was I skeptical of the Micheal teachings?  I sat with that.  

 

It ultimately became I was skeptical because of the atheist movement. That is when I began to become skeptical of the atheist activists. And it turned out that I was right to be.

 

Looking beyond the mask of rationality, their words didn't live up to their actions. I watched as people I had met and respected for years defended a transphobe and destroyed a founding organization of the new atheist movement.

 

I saw how their rhetoric mirrored way to closely with the alt-right. 

 

And just like the alt-right, the new atheists had nothing new.  Years of my life listening to podcast and absorbing this and they offered nothing but criticism with token gestures of humanitarianism.

 

I expected better.

 

 

Meanwhile, this teaching continued to evolve.  There have been posts on here where Micheal has said they don't know how X works because even their teachers don't know and they are limited in their knowledge as well.  Where as the atheists, always had the answer and if you didn't agree then screw you.

 

This teaching has always been promoted by Micheal, through Troy anyway, as a smorgasbord.  Take and use what works for you. Leave the rest.

 

Example, Micheal has said that literally our life here began out there, on Sirius, 6 million years ago.

 

You would rightfully be skeptical of that. I am. It is an unfalsifable statement. We don't have the tech to visit Sirius.  We can't communicate with other sentient species regardless of what planet they are on. Even then archeology has a limit on how far back we can look because things decay.  Anthropology has discovered homosapien predecessors back to 3.5 million years and then it was only fragments of a jaw or finger bones or something. Enough to say it existed but not much else.

 

That said.  Micheal spoke to me during a channeling session about a turning point I was very aware I was in. Very broadly it was a decision between move in an financially unstable but more creative direction or a more financially stable direction and working creativity in during the day. They had also spoke very specifically about techniques to work creativity in without it becoming another job.

 

I chose a 3rd option of a financially stable and worked on my at the time untreated depression. Micheal didn't talk about the depression because I didn't bring it up.

 

This community and Micheal have always been open, loving, and inclusive.  Even when I have been combative at times as I was working through something or running face first in the wall of my unknown biases embarrassingly publicly.  I learned more here in the discussion tied to channelings than from the channelings themselves sometimes. 

 

Be skeptical.

 

Ask questions.  

 

Make sure you are open to be challenged.

 

It is important to remember that if followed the its extreme a Skeptic would be Skeptical of their own Skepticism.

 

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Anirudh Ramachandran
On 23/01/2021 at 2:03 PM, Jean-François Lozevis said:

This post will validate at once my agression mode and my skeptic attitude.

 

If the universe follows the rules of MT teachings, then it should have been the way for thousands of years. Then, why the MT teachings are so new? They should also have been known for thousands of years. And I'm skeptic about the "neatness" of these teachings with their beautiful numbers: I don't believe deeply that life is so well ordered; there are always exceptions to the rules. The rule is maybe that most things are exceptions.

Though, I really like MT teachings: luminous but talking also of the dark side of the life. I validated many of the points of the chart I asked 5 years ago to Shepherd Hoodwin though it was hard to be all right with the fact I'm a King/Honorary priest: that seemed so far from my real life.

Though 2, for me MT teachings remains my main belief system with Kabbalah Angels.

Like @Christian mentioned, Hinduism has its' foundation in roles and overleaves. The distortion is that it's based on inheritance lines rather than your actual essence and overleaves.

 

The names of the four castes (Varnas) translate to characteristics of baby to old soul ages. Infant souls don't live in societies anyway, so there is no infant caste.

 

Shoodra (baby): Starting here from zero/nothing.

Vaishya (young): Certain of one's desires

Kshatriya (mature): One who knows the playing field (of life?)

Braahmana (old): One who knows the soul

 

This was, of course, twisted into a system of professions and social hierarchies. And you can only marry someone who belongs to your own caste.

 

Within each caste, there are gotras/roles. I translated the names of the 7 gotras of Hinduism in a previous post. Writing them here again for your benefit.

 

Bhaaradwaaja (Server): Uninterrupted bearer of support

Vashishta (Artisan): Create the things that one desires

Jamadagni (Warrior): Walking through fire

Atri (Scholar): Devourer of here-ness

Kashyapa (Sage): To see clearly and speak

Gautama (Priest): The light that removes lethargy

Kaushika (King): Most excellent

 

The distortion with the gotras is that they are 7 men who are the ancestors of all Hindus, and so you're not allowed to marry someone from your own Gotra as they're your sibling.

 

How the Hindu arranged marriage system works is:

1. You have to marry someone from your Varna/caste

2. You cannot marry someone from your gotra/role even if they're from the same caste.

 

In addition, each Varna/caste has Jaatis, which are now a system of sub-caste hierarchies, but Jaati actually means "born above" and I'm guessing they were originally the 7 soul levels of each soul age.

 

I myself wasn't convinced of MT at first, but now I am, because this is a rediscovery of the same truth that the people of the Vedic age discovered thousands of years ago.

 

In this life, I happen to be born a Hindu, and it was possible for me to make these correlations based on my pre-existing knowledge of Sanskrit. I understand that can be hard for others.

 

Please do remain skeptical until you're satisfied. There are enough believers around the world. We need more students.

 

Edited by Anirudh Ramachandran
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Becca the Student
33 minutes ago, Anirudh Ramachandran said:

There are enough believers around the world. We need more students.

 

^ I love this.

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Eric
57 minutes ago, Anirudh Ramachandran said:

There are enough believers around the world. We need more students.

 

24 minutes ago, Becca the Student said:

 

^ I love this.


Me too. Surprisingly poignant line.

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Anirudh Ramachandran

Just wanted to add a few more correlations between Hinduism and Michael Teachings.

 

1. Male and Female Energy: Ida Nadi and Pingala Nadi (male and female energy conduits of the spinal cord) in Yoga and Ayurveda.

2. The Tao casts entities from themselves: This is the core of all Hindu teachings. That Brahma is "all that is" and your soul is Brahma. You are Brahma, and your body is a vehicle for Brahma.

3. The 7 chakras

4. Karma

5. Monads: You get to go back to Brahma quickly and finish your reincarnation cycle if you act according to "Jaati Dharma" which translates to "appropriate behaviour for soul level".

 

Hope this helps.

Edited by Anirudh Ramachandran
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Delphi
10 minutes ago, Anirudh Ramachandran said:

Just wanted to add a few more correlations between Hinduism and Michael Teachings.

 

1. Male and Female Energy: Ida and Pingala Nadi (male and female energy conduits of the spinal cord) in Yoga and Ayurveda.

2. The Tao casts entities from themselves: This is the core of all Hindu teachings. That Brahma is "all that is" and your soul is Brahma. You are Brahma, and your body is a vehicle for Brahma.

3. The 7 chakras

4. Karma

5. Monads: You get to go back to Brahma quickly and finish your reincarnation cycle if you act according to "Jaati Dharma" which translates to "appropriate behaviour for soul level".

 

Hope this helps.

Great post, just wanted to add that the same concept of Male/Female energies apply in terms of Yang/Yin energies (you can eat food that promotes Yang energies for example like ginger, not sure how that relates to Michael but I do know different bodies promote focused/creative energies - Michael has only spoken in terms of female and male bodies but I'm sure the micro aspects exist too. 

Re 5, all you have to do is finish all your monads in the positive pole in one lifetime, which isn't quite appropriate behaviour for soul level but close enough. 

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Anirudh Ramachandran
5 minutes ago, Delphi said:

Great post, just wanted to add that the same concept of Male/Female energies apply in terms of Yang/Yin energies (you can eat food that promotes Yang energies for example like ginger, not sure how that relates to Michael but I do know different bodies promote focused/creative energies - Michael has only spoken in terms of female and male bodies but I'm sure the micro aspects exist too. 

Re 5, all you have to do is finish all your monads in the positive pole in one lifetime, which isn't quite appropriate behaviour for soul level but close enough. 

Yes, it's only close enough, but the meanings of words have changed over the centuries.

 

The Vedas were written in Vedic Sanskrit. The later scriptures like the Ramayana, Mahabharata (and Bhagavad Gita), and the Upanishads are written in classical Sanskrit.

 

I took the meaning of Dharma from classical Sanskrit. It probably meant something else in Vedic Sanskrit.

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Anirudh Ramachandran

I'd like to give you a direct answer for "why now?"

 

It's likely because an entire energy ring has reached the old stage. And all of us have agreements with Michael.

 

If you look at the beginnings of civilizations, you can clearly see their soul ages.

 

Africa, Australia, NZ, The Americas: Infant

Middle East, Central Asia: Baby

Europe: Young

East Asia: Mature

India: Old

 

India was the only place which retained the roles and overleaves, even though there were many infinite soul manifestations. It's because younger souls require rules rather than the truth, and fundamentalist religions caught on.

 

In a place like Vedic India which was full of old souls, there was a certain yearning to discover truths about the self and the universe. They channeled the Vedas with entities they had agreements with, mapped the Nadis, created Sanskrit with Chakra stimulating sounds, and invented yoga to free their true nature.

 

Over a period of time, the old souls cycled off and their cadres and entities became discarnate. Once India became a younger soul country, it discarded the truth in favor of a rigid and rules based caste system.

 

I'm sure there were old souls around the world even after the Indian old souls cycled off, but they never coalesced in one place like they did in India. If there was something similar to the Vedas or MT, it would have been very very niche and never reached the mainstream.

 

The Internet has allowed old souls from across the world to get together, and that's why you're hearing of MT now.

 

And MT itself is a very niche/fringe teaching. There are probably 100,000 MT students around the world, which is a miniscule part of the 7 billion world population.

 

 

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Cong
46 minutes ago, Anirudh Ramachandran said:

It's likely because an entire energy ring has reached the old stage. And all of us have agreements with Michael.

 

If you look at the beginnings of civilizations, you can clearly see their soul ages.

 

Africa, Australia, NZ, The Americas: Infant

Middle East, Central Asia: Baby

Europe: Young

East Asia: Mature

India: Old

 

Sorry. But this section makes no sense to me. We are also subject to our own imprints when it comes to the knowledge about cultures and history. Making a judgement call like this is quite ignorant and serves no good to our study.

My hunch is old soul teachings and cultures are scattered around the global during different period of time. The best examples will be the teachings of infinite souls, I don't recall infinite souls have a concentration in only one geographical area.

And what about the Lemurians? They are a lot older. I believe they mostly resided in lands close to today's Japan.

 

 

 

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AnnaD
1 hour ago, Anirudh Ramachandran said:

If you look at the beginnings of civilizations, you can clearly see their soul ages.

 

Africa, Australia, NZ, The Americas: Infant

Middle East, Central Asia: Baby

Europe: Young

East Asia: Mature

India: Old

 

New Zealand is mainly mature soul 50% and 35% baby soul, 10% young soul, 0.05% infant, and 5% old soul . 

As @Cong said, there are pockets of old souls around the world and those ratios of one soul age to another soul age change over time, and with evolution over time more people in the late mature - old soul age discover the michael teachings. 

 

People evolve and discover the teachings over time. As we have. I have also never encountered in the Michael Teachings any transcript that suggested that one civilisation had greater pockets of a soul type over another, but if you can find that, I am more than willing to change my mind. Civilisations reflect the bias of the history scholars too and anything notable beyond that bias is not recorded, so history is always incomplete. 

 

Edited by AnnaD
For clarity.
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Anirudh Ramachandran
27 minutes ago, Cong said:

 

Sorry. But this section makes no sense to me. We are also subject to our own imprints when it comes to the knowledge about cultures and history. Making a judgement call like this is quite ignorant and serves no good to our study.

My hunch is old soul teachings and cultures are scattered around the global during different period of time. The best examples will be the teachings of infinite souls, I don't recall infinite souls have a concentration in only one geographical area.

And what about the Lemurians? They are a lot older. I believe they mostly resided in lands close to today's Japan.

 

 

 

Yes, I said it was "likely" and didn't state it as fact. I don't have access to the Akashic records. I am subject to my own imprinting for sure, and this was just an extrapolation and a conversation starter.

 

If you thought I was making a grand conclusion after peer review, I'll clarify. I wasn't.

 

However, you can see that tribal practices have elements of infant, Confucianism feels mature, and the Upanishads feel old. If you think Confucianism is Old or Young rather than Mature, I'm happy to discuss it further.

 

I haven't heard of the Lemurians, so I didn't mention them.

 

Edit: As for infinite souls, I've already mentioned that there were many. But roles and reincarnation became mainstream only in India, and that's why you can clearly see them in Hinduism.

 

I don't doubt that other teachings may retain roles and reincarnation as well, but none of them became as widespread as Hinduism. I thought that was likely because India had a lot more old souls.

Edited by Anirudh Ramachandran
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Anirudh Ramachandran
10 minutes ago, AnnaD said:

 

New Zealand is mainly mature soul 50% and 35% baby soul, 10% young soul, 0.05% infant, and 5% old soul . 

As @Cong said, there are pockets of old souls around the world, and with evolution over time more people in the late mature - old soul age discover the michael teachings. 

 

People evolve and discover the teachings over time. As we have. 

 

I wasn't talking about current soul ages. I was talking about the beginnings of civilizations.

 

Until the Europeans came to NZ, it was a country that looked like infant and baby.

 

India started off as old, but it's currently baby.

 

Every country evolves, but there were certain initial conditions that can be observed.

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Anirudh Ramachandran
5 minutes ago, AnnaD said:

@Anirudh Ramachandran I wonder where you have got your sources from about New Zealand. Can you share your sources please?

No I can't, because these are extrapolation, like I mentioned.

 

However, I would recommend studying the Maori tribes and cultures prior to European exploration if you haven't already, and try to correlate them with MT.

 

It seemed to me that they behaved like infant and baby. If you disagree, and believe they were young or old, do let me know why you think so. I'm happy to discuss this further.

Edited by Anirudh Ramachandran
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