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Why now?


Jean-François Lozevis

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Becca the Student
17 minutes ago, Anirudh Ramachandran said:

Yes, I said it was "likely" and didn't state it as fact. I don't have access to the Akashic records. I am subject to my own imprinting for sure, and this was just an extrapolation and a conversation starter.

 

If you thought I was making a grand conclusion after peer review, I'll clarify. I wasn't.

 

However, you can see that tribal practices have elements of infant, Confucianism feels mature, and the Upanishads feel old. If you think Confucianism is Old or Young rather than Mature, I'm happy to discuss it further.

 

I haven't heard of the Lemurians, so I didn't mention them.

I’m pretty sure Michael has said that the tribal civilizations in North America were Old Soul civilizations up until a few years before European invasion. I’ll find the transcript. 

 

I say this kindly, but I have to agree with the others. It does look like you’re making a lot of assumptions about what a mature and old civilization looks like, and speaking from a place of heavy bias.

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Cong

hmm, I don't feel we should hijack the topic and go down the rabbit hole. But I still want to emphasize the importance of culture sensitivity here. Also like Anna said, our history is full of biases. History is written by people, and people are often flawed. Sadly we are still in a place where the loudest voices got to define what is "true". There are much more truth about many cultures that are still waiting to be heard and discovered.

We know very little about how civilization starts. It's a dangerous zone to get into if you assume some cultures started more advanced or old soul-ish than others. 

 

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Anirudh Ramachandran
1 minute ago, Becca the Student said:

I’m pretty sure Michael has said that the tribal civilizations in North America were Old Soul civilizations up until a few years before European invasion. I’ll find the transcript. 

 

I say this kindly, but I have to agree with the others. It does look like you’re making a lot of assumptions about what a mature and old civilization looks like, and speaking from a place of heavy bias.

Thank you. I've been looking for channeled information on this topic, but wasn't able to find any.

 

I am making a lot of assumptions, as I stated. Please treat them as conversation starters rather than something I've decided conclusively. I'm only trying to understand, and hypothesising and extrapolating is one way to do it when you have incomplete information.

 

I apologize if I'm coming across as biased. That wasn't the intent. I really am a seeker of truth. It's not my intent to inflate one civilization at the expense of another. I would be a very poor student of MT if I did that.

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Anirudh Ramachandran
1 minute ago, Cong said:

hmm, I don't feel we should hijack the topic and go down the rabbit hole. But I still want to emphasize the importance of culture sensitivity here. Also like Anna said, our history is full of biases. History is written by people, and people are often flawed. Sadly we are still in a place where the loudest voices got to define what is "true". There are much more truth about many cultures that are still waiting to be heard and discovered.

We know very little about how civilization starts. It's a dangerous zone to get into if you assume some cultures started more advanced or old soul-ish than others. 

 

Fair point. It can imply superiority if one culture over another even if that isn't the intent.

 

But Michael themselves have said that older isn't better, and I was taking it from that standpoint.

 

If you look at China, the theme throughout history until today has been "we'll do whatever we want within our borders because it works for us. We won't interfere in your affairs unless you interfere in ours"

 

That's very much like the mature soul view of "do it anywhere but here".

 

China is also the most enduring civilization on earth, and I think that's because it started off as mature. I could be wrong.

 

Anyway, I was just trying to find an explanation for "why now?". If you think my answer was over-fitted, let me know.

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AnnaD

@Anirudh Ramachandran I disagree with your generalisation claiming that Maori tribes were mainly infant and baby, from the point of view that all soul ages exist on a spectrum throughout a culture, albeit in pockets, and for the Maori to navigate from their point of Origin which was Taiwan...

 

Taiwan is a long way to come from https://www.culturalsurvival.org/news/genetic-link-brings-indigenous-taiwanese-and-maori-together  and young souls are more inclined to colonise, empire build, and navigate abroad using sophisticated open sea navigation technique . These early Maori people were expert sailors and came from Taiwan to a very distant land. I would say that the recognised signs of Maori civilisation in New Zealand was due to Maori young souls. To thrive in New Zealand with its very different from Taiwan and Hawaiiki land animals, geology, weather, earthquakes and food, takes intelligence and a swift ability to learn, something that I would be more inclined to attribute to  souls older than infant and baby. Also, the Maori have an oral tradition, so whatever their experiences were as indigenous New Zealanders during their times as the first civilisation here, were not recorded in writing, but as an oral tradition, so what is recorded of early Maori civilisation in New Zealand, will be overlaid the cultural imprint of the historian and not necessarily what the kaumatua/kuia wanted us to know about them.  

 

I have had a past life near Dunedin Te Wai Pounamu as a Maori wahine who was a mature soul. I currently live in New Zealand as an old soul. 

 

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Anirudh Ramachandran
1 minute ago, AnnaD said:

@Anirudh Ramachandran I disagree with your generalisation claiming that Maori tribes were mainly infant and baby, from the point of view that all soul ages exist on a spectrum throughout a culture, albeit in pockets, and for the Maori to navigate from their point of Origin which was Taiwan...

 

Taiwan is a long way to come from https://www.culturalsurvival.org/news/genetic-link-brings-indigenous-taiwanese-and-maori-together  and young souls are more inclined to colonise, empire build, and navigate abroad using sophisticated open sea navigation technique . These early Maori people were expert sailors and came from Taiwan to a very distant land. I would say that the recognised signs of Maori civilisation in New Zealand was due to Maori young souls. To thrive in New Zealand with its very different from Taiwan and Hawaiiki land animals, geology, weather, earthquakes and food, takes intelligence and a swift ability to learn, something that I would be more inclined to attribute to  souls older than infant and baby. Also, the Maori have an oral tradition, so whatever their experiences were as indigenous New Zealanders during their times as the first civilisation here, were not recorded in writing, but as an oral tradition, so what is recorded of early Maori civilisation in New Zealand, will be overlaid the cultural imprint of the historian and not necessarily what the kaumatua/kuia wanted us to know about them.  

 

I have had a past life near Dunedin Te Wai Pounamu as a Maori wahine who was a mature soul. I currently live in New Zealand as an old soul. 

 

Thank you very much for your knowledge and the link. I stand corrected.

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AnnaD

@Anirudh Ramachandran what I know about Maori civilisation would fit on the point of a needle. I realise that it is easy to make assumptions using a point of view that is well known and well broadcast. The trouble with civilisation is that it happened so very long ago and no one is here to correct our deductions of what happened nor can they provide us with representatives of the voices of different soul ages and empowered and disenfranchised sectors of that culture, and what ratio those soul ages represented as a percentage of the population of that civilisation. 

 

The only difference between your point of view and mine was with my speculation, I could link evidence of known Maori migration from Taiwan to Aotearoa (New Zealand) with the possibility that migration *could* occur due to empire building, a known young soul activity. What I don't know, is why the Maori came to Aotearoa. The Maori are the civilisation that started Aotearoa/New Zealand *as far as I know*. There could be many reasons not least they could have been driven out. I don't know why they migrated, but I painted Maori as "empire builders". That may not be quite right. They may have been forced to flee.

 

60,000 years of civilization/history/knowledge/silence has passed.  So with those levels of invisibility, lack of representation, and ambiguity due to the time that has passed, I would hesitate to draw hard and fast conclusions about any civilisation. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by AnnaD
For clarity.
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Anirudh Ramachandran
6 minutes ago, AnnaD said:

@Anirudh Ramachandran what I know about Maori civilisation would fit on the point of a needle. I realise that it is easy to make assumptions using a point of view that is well known and well broadcast. The trouble with civilisation is that it happened so very long ago and no one is here to correct our deductions of what happened nor can they provide us with representatives of the voices of different soul ages and empowered and disenfranchised sectors of that culture, and what ratio those soul ages represented as a percentage of the population of that civilisation. 

 

The only difference between your point of view and mine was with my speculation, I could link evidence of known Maori migration from Taiwan to Aotearoa (New Zealand) with the possibility that migration *could* occur due to empire building, a known young soul activity. What I don't know, is why the Maori came to Aotearoa. The Maori are the civilisation that started Aotearoa/New Zealand *as far as I know*. There could be many reasons not least they could have been driven out. I don't know why they migrated, but I painted Maori as "empire builders". That may not be quite right. They may have been forced to flee.

 

60,000 years of civilization/history/knowledge/silence has passed.  So with those levels of invisibility, lack of representation, and ambiguity due to the time that has passed, I would hesitate to draw hard and fast conclusions about any civilisation. 

 

 

 

 

I agree with everything you said. I'll only point out that I didn't make any hard and fast conclusions.

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Becca the Student
52 minutes ago, Anirudh Ramachandran said:

Thank you. I've been looking for channeled information on this topic, but wasn't able to find any.

 

I am making a lot of assumptions, as I stated. Please treat them as conversation starters rather than something I've decided conclusively. I'm only trying to understand, and hypothesising and extrapolating is one way to do it when you have incomplete information.

 

I apologize if I'm coming across as biased. That wasn't the intent. I really am a seeker of truth. It's not my intent to inflate one civilization at the expense of another. I would be a very poor student of MT if I did that.

 

Hahaha of course you weren't intending to come across as biased -- if we all knew what our biases were, we wouldn't be biased! 😉

 

I don't believe you're coming at these hypotheses from an intentionally harmful view at all, and I'm glad you're open to other information that challenges them. I can't seem to find the session in our library, but I know it's around here somewhere -- I'll get back to you on it. It was an answer in response to a questions asking about the a Native American tribe's tradition to think four generations ahead before making a decision.

 

Those of us living in countries that were built on the subjugation of others (America, Canada, New Zealand and Australia, for example) are currently hyper-aware of the lack of knowledge we now have of those cultures we destroyed, and so we're very sensitive to those blank spaces. Here in the US, we're currently having very open discussions about the harms and biases of history as we know it, especially when it comes to what's been written down about the civilizations of races that aren't White Europeans (tm). Especially of races we've harmed and subjugated in the creation of this country, our Black and Native members of our human family. I don't know if you're having these kinds of discussions in India, and if not, it's entirely fair that this is a bias or a blank space you're unaware of having. On the flip side, I know literally nothing about Hinduism and India beyond what I can read on Wikipedia, and I always love reading your large bank of knowledge on both subjects and how Hinduism connects to the Michael Teachings.

 

That's what's so great about the internet, I think: we're exposed to so many differing points of view.

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Anirudh Ramachandran
12 minutes ago, Becca the Student said:

 

Hahaha of course you weren't intending to come across as biased -- if we all knew what our biases were, we wouldn't be biased! <img src=">

 

I don't believe you're coming at these hypotheses from an intentionally harmful view at all, and I'm glad you're open to other information that challenges them. I can't seem to find the session in our library, but I know it's around here somewhere -- I'll get back to you on it. It was an answer in response to a questions asking about the a Native American tribe's tradition to think four generations ahead before making a decision.

 

Those of us living in countries that were built on the subjugation of others (America, Canada, New Zealand and Australia, for example) are currently hyper-aware of the lack of knowledge we now have of those cultures we destroyed, and so we're very sensitive to those blank spaces. Here in the US, we're currently having very open discussions about the harms and biases of history as we know it, especially when it comes to what's been written down about the civilizations of races that aren't White Europeans (tm). Especially of races we've harmed and subjugated in the creation of this country, our Black and Native members of our human family. I don't know if you're having these kinds of discussions in India, and if not, it's entirely fair that this is a bias or a blank space you're unaware of having. On the flip side, I know literally nothing about Hinduism and India beyond what I can read on Wikipedia, and I always love your reading your large bank of knowledge on both subjects and how Hinduism connects to the Michael Teachings.

 

That's what's so great about the internet, I think: we're exposed to so many differing points of view.

Very illuminating. I am actually aware of the conversations about the natives of NA and ANZ, but I wasn't aware of the discussions about history being rewritten.

 

In India, the discussions on caste have been very open since independence. A lot more needs to be done, but I think the country is off to a decent start.

 

I'm glad you enjoy my answers. I've been studying civilizations from a young age, and tried understanding the circumstances behind group behaviour. Something was always missing, until I found MT and realized that soul age was a thing.

 

Perhaps I've brushed with very broad strokes. I realize I need to refine my thinking.

Edited by Anirudh Ramachandran
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Delphi
2 hours ago, Anirudh Ramachandran said:

Yes, I said it was "likely" and didn't state it as fact. I don't have access to the Akashic records. I am subject to my own imprinting for sure, and this was just an extrapolation and a conversation starter.

 

If you thought I was making a grand conclusion after peer review, I'll clarify. I wasn't.

 

However, you can see that tribal practices have elements of infant, Confucianism feels mature, and the Upanishads feel old. If you think Confucianism is Old or Young rather than Mature, I'm happy to discuss it further.

 

I haven't heard of the Lemurians, so I didn't mention them.

 

Edit: As for infinite souls, I've already mentioned that there were many. But roles and reincarnation became mainstream only in India, and that's why you can clearly see them in Hinduism.

 

I don't doubt that other teachings may retain roles and reincarnation as well, but none of them became as widespread as Hinduism. I thought that was likely because India had a lot more old souls.

I think Confucius himself has been channelled as a transcendental soul. But context has to be taken into account, Confucianism at the time of the Warring Stages Period was radical given that there were many small and very violent states at the time constantly at war. Torture was rampant. Even though the teachings seem old to us today, it could have been the most people were willing to fathom. Also, Confucianism that later became institutionalized under the Han dynasty is bound to be different from the actual teachings of Confucius himself (not an expert so anyone who is knowledgeable in this area please chip in).

 

The Lemurians were known as a peaceful and psychic culture with very fragile bodies. I remember reading they incarnated along a different line though, so it doesnt those currently involved in a human grand cycle.

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Delphi
1 hour ago, Becca the Student said:

I’m pretty sure Michael has said that the tribal civilizations in North America were Old Soul civilizations up until a few years before European invasion. I’ll find the transcript. 

 

I say this kindly, but I have to agree with the others. It does look like you’re making a lot of assumptions about what a mature and old civilization looks like, and speaking from a place of heavy bias.

Yes, there have been a huge range of civilisations in North America. The famous Iroquois Confederacy for example would have to be at least old soul. Tribes like the Hopi which are democratic and prophesized famously about the coming of fossil fuels and the Huichol fo instance strike me as old soul. Same with the groups that Carlos Castenada draws on.

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Anirudh Ramachandran
48 minutes ago, Delphi said:

I think Confucius himself has been channelled as a transcendental soul. But context has to be taken into account, Confucianism at the time of the Warring Stages Period was radical given that there were many small and very violent states at the time constantly at war. Torture was rampant. Even though the teachings seem old to us today, it could have been the most people were willing to fathom. Also, Confucianism that later became institutionalized under the Han dynasty is bound to be different from the actual teachings of Confucius himself (not an expert so anyone who is knowledgeable in this area please chip in).

 

The Lemurians were known as a peaceful and psychic culture with very fragile bodies. I remember reading they incarnated along a different line though, so it doesnt those currently involved in a human grand cycle.

The part about context totally makes sense. I've been reading mainstream "accepted" Confucianism, and that appears mature.

 

My point about Old soul cultures is that we end up looking for these truths about the soul and the universe, and we would be able to correlate it with MT. I haven't been able to find any other old soul culture that clearly correlates this way.

 

Perhaps that was because their history was transmitted orally, or perhaps there was another reason.

 

My only point is that the Indian civilization as a majority identifies with Hinduism, that's based on the truth that MT is based on. I hypothesized that it was due to old soul beginnings. There may have been other old souls cultures running in parallel.

 

I made similar statements about other cultures, which in hindsight may have been too broad.

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Maureen

I think this session I had with Michael (first in a longer session spread over two days), where we discussed internal wholeness and the 7th Level (Old) Soul, applies here. You can quite easily see what Stage you are at, of the 7, based on how you are choosing to learn as you work your way through different teachings. Here's an excerpt from The 7 Stages of Internal Wholeness.

 

✨✨✨

 

There can be described 7 Stages relative to one's process toward internal wholeness. Though this can be described in different ways to accommodate the variations of what this would mean, and to accommodate the various, relative levels of wholeness, we will describe this here in terms of the review experienced at the 7th Level.

 

Keep in mind that the following can be experienced at any point across the Soul Age, but culminates in the 7th Level. In other words, Stage One could have begun in the first lifetime of the First Level, and so on.

 

However, regardless of where all of the Stages fall, they are repeated in each lifetime to some extent, much like the Internal Monads, and are particularly heightened in intensity in that 7th Level.

 

ONE: ENTHUSIASM/CURIOSITY – this is the very start of an awakening, the expansion of awareness that tends to come in the form of a search that will secure a teaching that will then become a part of one's own teaching. One acts as a broad net that catches anything and everything of interest that speaks to this enthusiasm and curiosity for what is ahead, to be learned.

 

TWO: CONTRADICTION/DISCERNMENT – this is now the start of sifting through all of that has been collected in the net, so to speak, and tossing out all of the "bullshit," or at least what does not serve the curiosity and enthusiasm. Now you question, doubt, wake up a bit more to the realization that not "everything" collected is serving your path. The importance of this Stage is that this filtering and sifting process helps one to then sustain a truer trajectory of the initial curiosity and enthusiasm.

 

THREE: PLATEAU – this is where one tends to level out in what one has decided stands as a secure and meaningful foundation for the soul age. The "bullshit" has been left behind, and the depth begins to expand in terms of what one is learning and experiencing.

 

FOUR: DETACHMENT – this is a stage where one's secure footing in a teaching or belief system now fails, is corrupted, is found to be lacking or loses its sense of meaning. All that was ever thought to be "true" is now thrown into question again. In truth, this is when one is detaching from the security of a teaching, and one begins to LIVE the teaching, putting it into valid application and implementation. It is an honest look at the fact that no single teaching or teacher has all of the answers.

 

FIVE: HEALING – and this is when the retrieval begins in terms of recovering fragments of the self from across the Soul Age. This is where one begins to realize that in order for one to move forward, one must do so with as much of the self as possible. There is an examination of how one may have been invested in various angles of experiences, truths, relationships, fears, etc. that were "left behind" because of their attachments. So this healing process is a quantum leap in awareness.

 

SIX: COMPREHENSION – ironically, the chaos of the process of Detachment that threw everything into question comes to be understood as the catalyst that actually proved the values and meaning of one's experiences, teaching, teachers, etc. This stage is marked by periods of grief, depression, wild enthusiasm, renewed curiosity, smallness, vastness, and all variation on how this fragment has come to understand itself as BEING. It is the first time a Personality realizes that one is not defined by any fragmentation within, across time, or in terms of emotions, moods, behaviors, patterns, but that ALL OF IT is YOU.

 

SEVEN: PEACE/SURRENDER - this is the stage where one either takes a break from the process (anywhere between any stages), or one comes full circle to stand together in fragmentation to represent as a whole. This is when one fully comprehends that it was never about reuniting fragments of the self as if putting drops of water back into a larger bowl of water, but about reuniting AS FRAGMENTS whose whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

 

And this final Stage is where all 7th Level Old Souls must, eventually, find/create this Peace.

 

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