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Origin of the world we see


Jean-François Lozevis

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Jean-François Lozevis

Two books told about the main reason of the origin of the world we see.

- Michael Handbook told that it was done by the Tao out of boredom

- A course in miracles told that it was a big mistake, the biggest mistake ever done

 

I'm not satisfied with these two reasons. That the world we know and all its wonders and suffering was due to such "reasons".

 

For me, God made this world to create new things and separation added many new and unexpected things to the world.

 

What do you think about this question on the reason the world was created?

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Sam K

I don't think God/Tao has or needs "reasons" for things in the sense that we understand the word. Everything in existence is an unfolding expression of God/Tao and, I would say, ultimately "chosen" in some sense, but meaning and purpose are human concepts with human relevance; the universe is art, and art needs no justification.

 

"The great Tao flows everywhere.
All things are born from it,
yet it doesn't create them.
It pours itself into its work,
yet it makes no claim.
It nourishes infinite worlds,
yet it doesn't hold on to them.
Since it is merged with all things
and hidden in their hearts,
it can be called humble.
Since all things vanish into it
and it alone endures,
it can be called great.
It isn't aware of its greatness;
thus it is truly great."

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ckaricai
9 hours ago, Jean-François Lozevis said:

Two books told about the main reason of the origin of the world we see.

- Michael Handbook told that it was done by the Tao out of boredom

- A course in miracles told that it was a big mistake, the biggest mistake ever done

 

I'm not satisfied with these two reasons. That the world we know and all its wonders and suffering was due to such "reasons".

 

For me, God made this world to create new things and separation added many new and unexpected things to the world.

 

What do you think about this question on the reason the world was created?

 

I think it doesn't matter why, and that's it's pointless to try and figure it out. This is a known unknown and can't be validated so I'm content to leave it unknown. We're here and that's enough. I used to care about these questions but as I've gotten older they just seem less and less important. The day to day stuff is what I think about. 

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Troubadour

I can't find the quote but I recall Michael saying Tao wants to know more about itself. There is a lot in that concept.. Desire comes into it; "I" want to know more about "me" implies a "self".  Followed by choice; I choose to do something about it. So action is taken by Tao to make it happen.

Desire and choice look to me to be the fundaments of the physical universe (which includes the seven planes existence) and apply to all consciousness from the most basic (atomic) to the most complex (Tao) and everything in between including us (fragment, essence, entity, cadre, ring, harmony...Tao).

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Troubadour
1 hour ago, Troubadour said:

I can't find the quote but I recall Michael saying Tao wants to know more about itself. There is a lot in that concept.. Desire comes into it; "I" want to know more about "me" implies a "self".  Followed by choice; I choose to do something about it. So action is taken by Tao to make it happen.

Desire and choice look to me to be the fundaments of the physical universe (which includes the seven planes existence) and apply to all consciousness from the most basic (atomic) to the most complex (Tao) and everything in between including us (fragment, essence, entity, cadre, ring, harmony...Tao).

Think I got this only partly (at best) right. Maybe it should be "we" want to know more about "us". 

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Philip Wittmeyer

There is a passage on this subject in the book The Seth Material that, back in the early 1980s when I first read it, I found to be so compelling that I typed it into a word processor and saved it as a PDF. It still has an impact on me when I read it. See attached.

seth.pdf

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Maureen

I saw this in Jane Roberts/Seth Quotes the other day. It fits. ✨

 

"Now. There is, and this will certainly seem a contradiction in terms, there is nonbeing. It is a state, not of nothingness in your terms, but a state in which probabilities and possibilities are known, anticipated, but blocked from all expression."


"Dimly, through what you would call a history, hardly remembered, there was such a state. It was a state of agony in which the powers of creativity and existence were known, but the ways to produce them were not known."


'This is the lesson that All That Is had to learn, and that could not be taught. This is the agony from which creativity originally was drawn, and in reflection is still seen."


"All That Is, in your terms, retains memory of that state, and it serves as a constant impetus toward renewed creativity."


"Each self, as a part of All That Is therefore also retains memory of this state. It is for this reason that each portion of All That Is, each most minute consciousness, is endowed with the impetus toward survival, change, development and creativity. It is not enough that All That Is, as a primary consciousness gestalt, desires further being, but, that every portion of it also carry this determination."


"Yet the agony itself was used as a means, and the agony itself served as an impetus, strong enough finally so that All That Is initiated within itself the means to be."


"All That Is therefore knows the agony of what you would call not being."


"Not being, in other terms, is impossible. It is being without the means of expressing being. Now, every portion of consciousness is imbued with innate knowledge towards the means of expression and creativity. If, and this is impossible, all portions but the most minute last unit of All That Is were destroyed, All That Is could still continue, for within the smallest portion is the innate knowledge of the whole."


"All That Is protects itself therefore, and all that is has, and is, and will create."

 

TES9 426

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Connie Stansell-Foy
22 hours ago, Troubadour said:

I can't find the quote but I recall Michael saying Tao wants to know more about itself. There is a lot in that concept.. Desire comes into it; "I" want to know more about "me" implies a "self".  Followed by choice; I choose to do something about it. So action is taken by Tao to make it happen.

Desire and choice look to me to be the fundaments of the physical universe (which includes the seven planes existence) and apply to all consciousness from the most basic (atomic) to the most complex (Tao) and everything in between including us (fragment, essence, entity, cadre, ring, harmony...Tao).

Basically, like the moutaineer who, asked why he climbed the mountatin, replied, "Because it's there," the physical universe was created "because Tao could."

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Connie Stansell-Foy
21 hours ago, Philip Wittmeyer said:

There is a passage on this subject in the book The Seth Material that, back in the early 1980s when I first read it, I found to be so compelling that I typed it into a word processor and saved it as a PDF. It still has an impact on me when I read it. 

 

OMG. That is so beautiful. I read it out loud so as to be able to better comprehend it. I've previously found the Seth material too dnese to understand. Perhaps I just wasn't ready. I don't claim to fully understand this excerpt, but  ...  I need to read more.

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Jeroen

From what I understand, All That Is/Tao is given form through all the consciousness that exists as a part of our Universe and in other systems. Without the presence of all the different forms of consciousness in our Universe and the drive to bring ideas and creativity into form, it would seem that our Universe and other systems would be a static structure rather than a living evolving structure that has no beginning or end. This was a session I had with Michael where they spoke of how ideas and creativity act as catalysts to form our Universe as we know it to be now.

 

"FROM MICHAEL: The most massive scale of the structure is very much like webbing, similar to how one might visualize synaptic pathways. This webbing is an ever-changing structure that changes over time and tends to be relative to the evolution of Sentience across all systems. In the same way that synaptic pathways are altered and changed over time, based on input, growth, and experience, so do these massive structures develop over time as a reflection of collective growth. This scale is massive and indiscernible in many ways from your perspective as a Human. Pulses and currents are moving among all of these systems that affect these systems as a whole in the same way that your synaptic pathways and all of its parts are both a reflection of your thoughts and a source of influence on the whole of you. 

 

In short, there is no specific or static structure on that largest scale. It is a living, growing, and changing interconnectivity of points, currents, pulses, and exchanges that are reflections and influences that sustain the whole and improve it over time.

 

It is not amiss to see the creation of a universe as an explosion of ideas that take form over time. Once a universe comes into existence through what many describe as “the big bang,” it is followed “instantly” by ideas and creativity that act as catalysts for the formation of that universe. These ideas and creativity are the result of all consciousness that brought that universe into existence. 

 

We have not yet assigned a word or term to this scale of orginazation of consciousness. We can say that all that you know of your universe and all of the consciousness spread about that universe, along with all of the Sentience evolving through all of the Grand Cycles known in that universe, is just ONE of the uncountable closed systems of existence. We could describe the whole of one closed system of existence as ONE GRAND EXISTENCE."

 

I would just add that I think the reason choice is of such importance is because the only way these structures can live, grow, and change is for all of us to contribute to that through our range of available choices.

Edited by Jeroen
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Christian

I agree with @ckaricai.

 

Why does it matter?

 

You chose to be here, now.  You chose to live now.

 

Live.

 

The question are nice in the hypothetical. And those questions can pass a pleasant evening in debate. They are ultimately unanswerable. So any answer is as good as the next. 

 

To me the questions are fun...but irrelevant to my daily life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Heidi

All of you are wrong. It was because of pizza. Everything else was secondary.

 

eKlBQ3Zg.jpg

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ckaricai
1 hour ago, Heidi said:

All of you are wrong. It was because of pizza. Everything else was secondary.

 

eKlBQ3Zg.jpg

 

I heard that the answer to life, the universe, and everything was 42. LOL 

 

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Troubadour
7 hours ago, Christian said:

Why does it matter

It matters to me because I’m curious. 

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Christian
1 hour ago, Troubadour said:

It matters to me because I’m curious. 

Great.

 

Be curious.

 

Also be content that the question may be unanswerable.

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Christian
8 hours ago, Heidi said:

All of you are wrong. It was because of pizza. Everything else was secondary.

 

All hail the 'za lord.  May their toppings satisfy.

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Sam K

I think that for some individuals, there is genuine value in exploring these questions beyond indulging curiosity (which itself is, after all, not so trivial a thing).  Even if no definitive answers can be reached, contemplating the large can help refine one's perspective on the small, and vice versa. 

 

It's not for everyone of course; it can be a distraction, or a source of unnecessary anxiety, or a launching point for dogmatism. But approached with the right mindset, it can be genuinely fulfilling. Some of my most profound moments of clarity and Essence perception have come from thinking about questions like this. Scholars gonna Scholar.

Edited by Sam K
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Eric

I think the reason those particular answers at the start of the post aren't satisfying is because of the connotations around them. The idea that the Tao was "bored" has a connotation that our reality is (or at least started out) trivial, a trifling trinket indulged by a greater consciousness for entertainment. There may be some truth in there (i.e. that even reality isn't necessarily "special" and/or reality exists because "why not?"), but the idea of boredom and the need for entertainment/diversion strike as a very mundanely human experience.

Likewise the idea that reality was "a mistake," implies that it was not intended to happen, or indeed that something else entirely was intended but reality happened instead. A mistake is something that wasn't supposed to happen and is often opposed to some other intention, which seems bizarre for the creation of reality. Who made this mistake and how? What had they wanted to do instead? That kind of thought starts to get harder to hold up the higher you go on the consciousness ladder.

As far as what "the answer" could be, I'm fairly in the "why not" cosmic curiosity camp. But I also have a case of the Socrates and know that I don't/can't know, so I'm not too worried about it.

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Maureen
1 hour ago, Eric said:

I think the reason those particular answers at the start of the post aren't satisfying is because of the connotations around them. The idea that the Tao was "bored" has a connotation that our reality is (or at least started out) trivial, a trifling trinket indulged by a greater consciousness for entertainment. There may be some truth in there (i.e. that even reality isn't necessarily "special" and/or reality exists because "why not?"), but the idea of boredom and the need for entertainment/diversion strike as a very mundanely human experience.

Likewise the idea that reality was "a mistake," implies that it was not intended to happen, or indeed that something else entirely was intended but reality happened instead. A mistake is something that wasn't supposed to happen and is often opposed to some other intention, which seems bizarre for the creation of reality. Who made this mistake and how? What had they wanted to do instead? That kind of thought starts to get harder to hold up the higher you go on the consciousness ladder.

As far as what "the answer" could be, I'm fairly in the "why not" cosmic curiosity camp. But I also have a case of the Socrates and know that I don't/can't know, so I'm not too worried about it.

 

Yes, good point, @Eric. José Stevens also calls Life a game, repeatedly. I'm not fond of that perspective, either. Being "bored", being in a "game", sounds like a human perspective that has been projected by Personality onto human life. José Stevens is a good channel but that part (IMO) is not good channeling. Michael said the following to a couple of students about boredom. 

 

And we wish to clarify again that your life is not boring. No life is boring. Boredom is simply the rejection of participation.

 

Curiosity is Active, and it follows its heart.

 

It is Active Love.

 

~~~

 

Boredom is a lack of presence and connection to Essence. If Essence is put at a distance, boredom tends to be a result. Often, when one is not enthusiastic, one shuts down the resonance to Essence.

 

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