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FACEBOOK SESSION - 082121 - Afghanistan Questions


Troy
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Great article from Michael Moore (Mature 3, Scholar-cast Sage, C1E3, with a Server Essence Twin) on August 21, 2021. I thought this was a good place to post as it reflects a lot of what Michael says.

 

Peeling The American Onion

 

It Ain't Over 'Til The Last Burger King

Leaves Kandahar

 

By Michael Moore

Most won’t say it, so I will:

 

America has thankfully lost another war. Let’s make this the last.

 

This is nothing here to celebrate. This should only be a monumental gut-check moment of serious reflection and a desire to seek redemption for ourselves. We don’t need to spend a single minute right now analyzing how Biden has or has not messed up while bravely handling the end of this mess he was handed — including his incredible private negotiations all this week with the Taliban leaders to ensure that not a single enemy combatant from the occupying force (that would be us; e.g., U.S. soldiers and spies and embassy staff), will be harmed. And Biden so far has gotten every American and foreign journalist out alive, plus a promise from the Taliban that those who stay to cover it will not be harmed. And not a single one has! Usually a force like the Taliban rushes in killing every enemy in sight. That has not happened! And we will learn that it was because of the negotiating skills and smarts of the Biden team that there was no mass slaughter. This is not Dunkirk.

 

Dozens of planes have safely taken off all week — and not one of them has been shot down. None of our troops in this chaotic situation have been killed. Despite the breathless shrieks of panic from maleducated journalists who think they’re covering the Taliban of the 1990s (Jake Tapper on CNN keeps making references to “beheadings“ and how girls might be “kidnapped” and “raped” and forced to become “child brides”), none of this seems to be happening. I do not want to hear how we “need to study” what went wrong with this Taliban victory and our evacuation because (switching to all caps because I can’t scream this loud enough): WE ARE NEVER GOING TO FIND OURSELVES IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS AGAIN BECAUSE OUR DAYS OF INVADING AND TAKING OVER COUNTRIES MUST END. RIGHT? RIGHT!!

 

Just look at this:

 

Korea.

Vietnam.

Cambodia.

Iraq (1991).

Iraq (2003).

Afghanistan.

 

There are two themes that run through this list of countries we’ve invaded since World War II.

 

One, none of them ever invaded us or posed any kind of threat to our lives — the only true justification to ever use armed force.

 

And number two, they ain’t white. Since May 8, 1945, for some reason, we only kill people of color. Probably just a co-inky-dinky.

 

As with the Viet Cong in Vietnam, we were defeated in Afghanistan by a rag-tag army that did not own a single helicopter, not a single jet fighter, no stealth bombers, no missiles, no napalm, no Burger King at the PX, not one air conditioned tent — not one! — not a goddamn tank in sight, just a bunch of guys with beards in pick-up trucks firing bullets into the air. Oh, and one other similarity with Vietnam — it was their country! Not ours. We were the invaders. In Vietnam we killed 2 million people. In Afghanistan, estimates of the dead go as high as 250,000. In Iraq we killed nearly a million (going back to Bill Clinton’s civilian bombing campaign).

 

We spent over $2.4 trillion in Afghanistan for 20 years while the poor in America went without food, medical care, decent schools. The water in the Black-majority city of Flint was poisoned by the Governor. A thousand people shot by the police in the U.S. each year.

 

We sacrificed over 2,400 American lives to invade a country where Bin Laden was nowhere to be found. Bush said early on he no longer had any interest in capturing him. In 2011, Obama’s seal team found him in a house just down the road from Pakistan’s “West Point”. Who woulda thought!

 

What a tragic mess. Defund the military-industrial complex, defund the NSA, defund Homeland Security. They sent our young troops to their deaths. For shame! No Afghan attacked the World Trade Center. 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia! Not from Afghanistan, not Iraq, not Iran. How come “Bandar Bush” — the Saudi Royal Family’s tender nickname for their longtime friend, George W. Bush — why didn’t Bush attack Saudi Arabia? Oh. Right. They have something we need. Fill ‘er up!

 

So, yes, we lost this stupid, senseless war and I’m happy that it has finally ended. Our fake Afghanistan Army couldn’t wait for us to leave — and, as soon as we did, the Afghan soldiers stripped off their fake Army costumes we gave them, threw them to the ground and spit on them. They joined the Taliban in the streets in celebration. The Taliban did not shoot a single one of them. The Afghan interpreters and others who colluded with the enemy, the USA, for 20 years — yes, they might be in trouble (just like if Russia invaded Alaska and a bunch of Alaskans collaborated with them and after the Russians left some Americans might want retribution from the collaborators). You get that, right?

 

The pundits on TV wail: “We’ve abandoned our Afghan helpers! No one will ever trust us again! No one will ever believe us! Our word is no good!!”

 

EXACTLY! Correct! Yessss! We should never be believed! Note to the rest of the world: You see us coming? RUN! Nothing but tragedy awaits you. Do NOT help us. If we sign a climate agreement, we will not follow it! If we sign a nuclear deal with your mullahs, don’t believe it. It only means we’re getting ready to bomb you. And you should know that when it comes to we, the American public, there is not a single morning where we ever wake up thinking about you or giving a rat’s ass whether 80% of your people live in a state of oppressive abject poverty. It’s always only about us, baby — and what YOU can do for US, for our AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE!

 

And by the way, make sure there’s always a roof where we can land that goddamn escape helicopter when we need to get the F outta Dodge!

It’s always Saigon Time in America.

 

P.S. May our troops and the Afghan civilians someday forgive us. Much condolences and love to all families who lost loved ones in this disgustingly sad war. I can only imagine how you all have felt this week. Nineteen of our American veterans commit suicide every single day. Please, don’t leave us. I/we will not abandon you. (If you need to talk to someone, call 800-273-8255).

 

https://www.michaelmoore.com/p/peeling-the-american-onion?fbclid=IwAR3pFtWLMUqcSLvxBQlAtErf7QhsVFcvy0d_5JEkE3dbIXLNw8lc425wJlg

 

Last Burger King Leaves Kandahar_Michael Moore_August 21_2021.jpg

 

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On 8/21/2021 at 5:17 PM, Troy said:

5. What impact will this have on the world at large in the short, medium, and long term?

 

FROM MICHAEL: We do not know, but we can say that it will be just another thing that is happening in the world and blur into the paralyzing information glut that is in effect or it will become a symbolic focus for the evolution of international governments toward more Mature Soul tactics for securing Human Rights in regions where they are in clear violation. We think this event may contribute to a more secure and clarified global consideration for how to handle Human Rights violations. =

Re the suddenly ended airlift, and suicide attacks at the Kabul airport, I'm feeling the depressive weight of sadness.

Especially remembering the May 26-June 4 1940 Dunkirk evacuation of 338, 226 people by around 800 civilian and military watercraft across the English Channel during WWII.

 

Why couldn't the world's current governments and airline companies have worked together to do something like this?  

Especially since the pandemic means there are plenty of unbooked, long-haul passenger jets ready-to-fly that could have evacuated how many thousands of people?.

 

It's been harder to watch than expected, how many politicians appear genuinely surprised the Taliban didn't keep to the agreed-upon Aug 31 deadline.
It feels truly "heavy" that this is the world we're living in right now.
 


 

 

 

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1 hour ago, WolfAmethyst said:

Re the suddenly ended airlift, and suicide attacks at the Kabul airport, I'm feeling the depressive weight of sadness.

Especially remembering the May 26-June 4 1940 Dunkirk evacuation of 338, 226 people by around 800 civilian and military watercraft across the English Channel during WWII.

 

Why couldn't the world's current governments and airline companies have worked together to do something like this?  

Especially since the pandemic means there are plenty of unbooked, long-haul passenger jets ready-to-fly that could have evacuated how many thousands of people?.

 

It's been harder to watch than expected, how many politicians appear genuinely surprised the Taliban didn't keep to the agreed-upon Aug 31 deadline.
It feels truly "heavy" that this is the world we're living in right now.

 

 

 

It's been harder to watch than expected, how many politicians appear genuinely surprised the Taliban didn't keep to the agreed-upon Aug 31 deadline.

 

@WolfAmethyst, it wasn't the Taliban, they kept their word. Apparently, it was ISIS-K. Yet another terrorist group.

 

 

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There is an animal sanctuary in Kabul with 68 people including some of the first female veterinarians in Afghanistan who care for rescued dogs, cats, and donkeys. Efforts have been made to provide safe passage for the people and animals from Kabul to the UK. From what I have read, the plane left to pick them up earlier this morning but with the recent explosions near the airport, I am not certain if they are able to get safe passage through to the airport. From what I understand, the plane has seats to rescue additional refugees.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-58340272

 

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6 hours ago, WolfAmethyst said:

Re the suddenly ended airlift, and suicide attacks at the Kabul airport, I'm feeling the depressive weight of sadness.

Especially remembering the May 26-June 4 1940 Dunkirk evacuation of 338, 226 people by around 800 civilian and military watercraft across the English Channel during WWII.

 

Why couldn't the world's current governments and airline companies have worked together to do something like this?  

Especially since the pandemic means there are plenty of unbooked, long-haul passenger jets ready-to-fly that could have evacuated how many thousands of people?.

 

It's been harder to watch than expected, how many politicians appear genuinely surprised the Taliban didn't keep to the agreed-upon Aug 31 deadline.
It feels truly "heavy" that this is the world we're living in right now.
 


 

 

 

 

It actually has been a global effort involving some 200+ aircraft from the US, Canada, Mexico, the UK, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Poland, Belgium, The Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Greece, Turkey, Georgia, Estonia, Russia, Japan, South Korea, Nepal, India, Australia, and New Zealand, just to name a few. Over 80,000 people were evacuated in a week. There have also been efforts to work through NGOs or private charter flights, so it kinda has been a "Dunkirk" week through both government and private efforts to get people out. The other issue is that it isn't just getting them to the airport, through the airport, and on the airplanes. It's also an issue of where that plane will land. They have to find countries willing to issue visas for everyone on board before they can take off. It's a matter of which countries are willing to take in people, house them, feed them, clothe them, and eventually integrate them into their societies, and how many each country is willing to take in. 

 

... I just wish they started this months ago...

Edited by BrianW
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1 hour ago, BrianW said:

 

It actually has been a global effort involving some 200+ aircraft from the US, Canada, Mexico, the UK, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Poland, Belgium, The Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Greece, Turkey, Georgia, Estonia, Russia, Japan, South Korea, Nepal, India, Australia, and New Zealand, just to name a few. Over 80,000 people were evacuated in a week. There have also been efforts to work through NGOs or private charter flights, so it kinda has been a "Dunkirk" week through both government and private efforts to get people out. The other issue is that it isn't just getting them to the airport, through the airport, and on the airplanes. It's also an issue of where that plane will land. They have to find countries willing to issue visas for everyone on board before they can take off. It's a matter of which countries are willing to take in people, house them, feed them, clothe them, and eventually integrate them into their societies, and how many each country is willing to take in. 

 

... I just wish they started this months ago...

 

@BrianW, it would have been the same months ago. Actually, this is way better than any one could have hoped for no matter when it was done. 

 

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20 hours ago, Jeroen said:

Efforts have been made to provide safe passage for the people and animals from Kabul to the UK.

WTF. There are thousands of people who are sure to be left behind, and hundreds of them will likely be killed because they helped the NATO. We're really going to prioritize animals over them? Every seat and every pound of weight in the aircrafts count now.

Edited by Anirudh
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I just saw this remarkable quote from Michael Moore. ✨

 

President Biden has done the unthinkable -- he has pissed off the bloodthirsty, pro-war swamp of war profiteers and psychopaths who treat America's troops as toy soldiers and who treat any brown-skinned people on this planet as less than human. His actions over the past 12 days deserve our gratitude and our respect.  It takes incredible fortitude to fight off the war hawks and armchair generals who want more blood. And yet he stands his ground, day after day. Thank you President Biden for ending this war.

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On 8/21/2021 at 5:17 PM, Troy said:

FROM MICHAEL: We do not know, but we can say that it will be just another thing that is happening in the world and blur into the paralyzing information glut that is in effect or it will become a symbolic focus for the evolution of international governments toward more Mature Soul tactics for securing Human Rights in regions where they are in clear violation. We think this event may contribute to a more secure and clarified global consideration for how to handle Human Rights violations. In the Young Soul paradigm there needed to be a clear benefit to those who helped the region, such as oil, resources, war profiteering, etc. but a Mature Soul paradigm sees people as the priority. Until now, humans were either a path to profit or not, and this determined the value of their lives to those in power. This is changing. Slowly. The past 20 years or so of support for the region have been rooted in profits, not people. The shift toward people as the priority is here and we do not know how it will show up yet.

I am hoping for the most compassionate outcome. 🙏

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As someone that has been there twice, once in Iraq and once in Afghanistan,  I agree with the part where the Afghan Army was waiting for us to leave. Any time we backed off a certain area the fighters would lay down their guns and remove the uniforms. We never really knew who supported us being there. We lived in fear and so did they. We should have never been there. There are good people there that now probably hate us more than they ever had before for occupying them. 

 

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On 8/26/2021 at 1:57 PM, WolfAmethyst said:

Re the suddenly ended airlift, and suicide attacks at the Kabul airport, I'm feeling the depressive weight of sadness.

Especially remembering the May 26-June 4 1940 Dunkirk evacuation of 338, 226 people by around 800 civilian and military watercraft across the English Channel during WWII.

 

Why couldn't the world's current governments and airline companies have worked together to do something like this?  

Especially since the pandemic means there are plenty of unbooked, long-haul passenger jets ready-to-fly that could have evacuated how many thousands of people?.

 

It's been harder to watch than expected, how many politicians appear genuinely surprised the Taliban didn't keep to the agreed-upon Aug 31 deadline.
It feels truly "heavy" that this is the world we're living in right now.
 


 

 

 

Taliban did this in a very sneaky and manipulative way.

 

They're blaming and condemning ISIS for the airport bombing, but they were also the ones who released ISIS members en masse from prisons after Kabul was captured.

 

Michael nailed it with this one. They're only trying to build false trust and take advantage of us here.

Edited by Anirudh
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