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MICHAEL SPEAKS – TRANSCENDENTAL & INFINITE SOUL UPDATES/Q&A – August 22, 2021


Maureen
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@Tincha, I came to this thread to read about IS/TS. I've been a Michael student since 1987 and I live my life with its philosophy in mind. I know the bible is not accurate at all but neither is any historically written documents, they are in its essence, biased, you have to compare different sources and try reading between the lines to maybe being able to decipher the historical facts from the rest. My error here was to disagree yet again but then you just cannot grow in your philosophy or faith if you just stick to saying "yes that's right" to each other. It's like a beautiful lake going stagnant, green and smelly if it's cut of from all the streams flowing into it. I'm not bored, I have a lot of work to do and a family and 5 children to take care of. Occasionally, I feel the need to study some more Michael that was the only reason for me being here. I should not have commented, it was very spontaneous of me! As long as you are strong in your believes, nothing I can say will change your conviction and you can continue as you have. Just remember that Jesus did not say the things expected of him, he rebelled and awoke thoughts and feelings that had been sleeping in the minds of the people of his time. The thoughts and feelings of tolerance and love towards each other. I think the next  IS message will be an equal shock to all of us and make a lot of people angry, like the last time. Then after the anger has subsided the change and renewal can begin again. 

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6 hours ago, Hjortur said:

@JorgenYou're right about my intentions, I was actually just interested in this apparent rewriting of the new-testament texts to more suit the vegetarian side of our population. In fact, I just happened to look into this discussion as the subject of IS/TS interested me. I have been keeping clear of TLE for some time now after having had some heated debates about veganism a while ago. Of course this thread included the dreaded vegan discussion in a form that was somewhat hurting to read even though if I'm not a devout Christian myself at all. Rewriting of history is a dangerous thing to do and I just wanted to point out the historical inaccuracies. 

@Hjortur Maybe you could ask Michael about this. Would be interesting!

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@Felicitas Do you mean checking the historical facts by asking Michael? I guess it would be like seeking answers in the Bible. The answer would never be the pure truth but “just” the imprint it had made in the mind of the channel or the author’s. There are truths in the channeling done by skilled Michael mediums and likewise there are also truths in the Bible. Both however reflect in common misinterpretations inherited from the believe system and social structure of the time they were written. The written words of Michael and the Bible will then have to be read not by their direct meaning but more in the way of grasping their inner truth. Future authors or channels that have gained in wisdom by reading these earlier texts will then have the ability to pull forth even more profound truths. Maybe in the end we will have such shining truths that none of the pollutants will be visible anymore. A better world I hope.

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On 10/6/2021 at 9:36 AM, Hjortur said:

@Tincha, I came to this thread to read about IS/TS. I've been a Michael student since 1987 and I live my life with its philosophy in mind.

I'm reading this thread and I don't see anything in what @Hjorturis saying as "stirring up trouble," and I'm not so at ease with the attacks on his expressions of his own thoughts and perspectives using a demeaning tone towards him. I'm a free thinker too. The late, great Congressman John Lewis said "Let's make some good trouble." He did and he changed a lot for the good.

Isn't this a forum for discussion of diverse ideas and reflections in light of Michael's teachings? Or is it another church with an adherence to one belief system handed down like the Catholic Church I was raised in?  "We believe in one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church." They recite it in unison weekly on Sunday mornings and that's what they ALL believe. They dare not deviate from that. How strange. How about a little more tolerance, folks?

As far as the vegan perspective goes, I can see that its adherents are passionate and I understand that. I'm a long-time vegetarian who grapples with the respect for all life, the way food is prepared, the considerations for health, etc. I'm "right in there" with most people's challenges in the current time and not above it, and yet hoping to navigate to a greater resolution collectively. I see the same passion in anti-abortionists, to be honest (and I am pro-choice with a matched level of emotion about that). The emotion doesn't make it right, it doesn't convince anyone, it more likely than not arouses opposition, and It certainly does not change history - all the hundreds and thousands of years of humans as carnivores and as women who have had abortions are still part of history, like it or not. If you care about these things, your care may, perhaps, open a pathway to a new future, but as I read what @Hjorturwas saying, I understood him to say that we can't go back and rewrite history with the eyes of today, or the wishes of today, and I concur with that. My words - we can try to rewrite the future and give it our best if we think it is for the best. But as with everything, dogmatism isn't the most persuasive route to the goal, imo. It just doesn't win people over to the cause. One positive potential for the future is finding a way for the whole planet to live off plant-based foods when THEY NEVER COULD BEFORE - as pointed out by more than one person here. Another is to have a world where all women have full reproductive control over their bodies. Let go of the punitive and move towards the new potential and the incentives. End the fighting. My two cents.

Edited by Janet H
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@Janet H Thank you for speaking up. In retrospect it is obvious I could’ve expressed myself differently. More constructively. I seem to have forgotten the fact that we are all doing our very best, with the resources available to us, when writing that. None of us have all the answers, and we are all doing the best we can with what we have. Sometimes our best is brilliant and sometimes it is far off the mark, indeed. In this case I seem to have fallen far of the mark. Which is not pleasant to admit, but that’s how we learn. So thank you chipping in your two cents. 🙂 
 

@Hjortur I did not intend to be so crass in my expression. My passion for this topic should be directed at the species as a whole, not single individuals, like what happened here. So for that I am sorry. 

Edited by Jorgen
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@Janet H Thank you for your understanding and courage in voicing your opinion!
Truth is a fragile being it would seem as it’s so easily distorted but it’s only fragile on the outside where we are currently experiencing it. It’s like this great tree growing through the ages with the base of its strength resting on its previous fragile outer layers, now a hardened tough wood. This is why rewriting or disregarding history is such a dangerous thing to do, it rots, hollows and threatens this tree’s very being and thereby our existence as its human branch. We have lost our bearings in nature although Gaia has been methodically correcting that deviation, becoming more apparent of late.

In 1984, the 16 year old me was watching the TV series “The winds of war” with Robert Mitchum. There was this scene in the series where a lot of naked people of all ages were crammed together into the fake showers of Auschwitz. My mother exclaimed “How do they dare show this!” I remember crying out in an uncharacteristic emotional outburst, “It must be shown, we must never forget what we’ve done!”. It was the first time I referred to myself as a collective humanity as well as finding out how passionate I was about the truth in remembrance. I was quite embarrassed at the time but I had inadvertently revealed an inner truth that I was unaware of. Somehow truth rests in the strangest of places like an 80’s American wartime soap. 

@Jorgen, no need to be sorry! I consider myself not at all as a solitary target but rather like a kind of representative of the old ways and therefore answering you all as a collective of those old values. 

As food goes, my people lived off sheep’s, fish, homegrown potatoes, vegetables and milk products produced locally (imported some wheat flour though). The sheep’s we kept inside during the winter and let loose in the mountains to grace during the summer. In late summer we gathered hay in barns for them and the few cows. In autumn some of the sheep’s got slaughtered for the winter. All year round we fished at our peril and many of my relatives drowned, myself escaping a close call.
In other words, we lived ecologically in sync with nature. Of course, this is not realistic. I understand that many of you @TLE live in cities and are seldom exposed to nature. In that way some misunderstandings can occur between us the children of nature and you, the city dwellers. 

I lived on the west coast of Iceland as my family had those 1100 years after emigrating from your country Jørgen. I agree with you that sustainably is the key issue at this crucial  point in our history as a human species. I also believe that going more vegetarian is the way to go. The most important aspect of change though is in us growing to be more symbiotic with nature.

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On 10/6/2021 at 8:54 AM, Tincha said:

@Hjortur, the Bible is not a history book, but a propaganda tool. I think that you are once again trying to stir up trouble here, perhaps because you are bored, or for whatever reason. It really is so obvious by now. 

I do not agree with this demeaning post. Whatever the Bible is to anyone, there is no need to speak to another Michael student in this way. Thank you.

 

Edited by Janet H
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17 hours ago, Hjortur said:

“The winds of war” with Robert Mitchum. There was this scene in the series where a lot of naked people of all ages were crammed together into the fake showers of Auschwitz. My mother exclaimed “How do they dare show this!” I remember crying out in an uncharacteristic emotional outburst, “It must be shown, we must never forget what we’ve done!”

Such a great point and so poignant @HjorturThank you for sharing this.

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There is a large amount of wounding in society at large, and in TLE in particular, surrounding (read: inflicted by) Christians and Christianity. This tends to make it easy to inadvertently draw ire through discussion of Christianity as a topic in any tone that isn't unequivocally negative. That's not a criticism of anyone; the wounding is real, and the feelings it generates are entirely legitimate, if sometimes misdirected.

 

To compound matters, veganism is a deeply personal cause for a great many TLE members, not least Troy himself.  Even those of us who aren't yet vegan ourselves are typically deeply sympathetic to it. Combine that with the aforementioned sensitivity surrounding Christianity, and I can see how the points Hjortur brought up might be misunderstood as malicious or "troublemaking."

Edited by Sam K
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As far as Jesus's vegetarianism there are several documents that mention the vegetarianism of the Jewish Christian branches of Christianity around 300 to 400 BC.

 

You won't find anything about vegetarianism in the Bible.

 

These documents were the Recognition of Clement and the Clementine Homilies written by Clement of Rome, an early Church Father. 

 

These documents are said to be pseudo Clementine because the church did not believe that Clement wrote them. And perhaps Clement did not write them but Paul did not write at least five of his Epistles either as he was dead when they were written, so those documents should be called pseudo-Pauline.

 

Another document was the Panarian (medicine chest ) of Epiphanius -written around 380 C E.  The medicine in question was to be used against the disease of heresy: and Epiphanius lists a bunch of heresies, including the Jewish Christian groups. One of these Jewish Christian groups was called Ebionites (The Poor). 

 

The following is from the book, The lost Religion of Jesus: simple living and nonviolence in Early Christianity. I recommend the book. https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Religion-Jesus-Nonviolence-Christianity/dp/1930051263

 

"Ebionites had the following characteristic beliefs:

 

•Jesus is the true prophet. The Ebionites based their belief in Jesus on Deuteronomy 18:15-18, when Moses predicts a future prophet due to the people's reluctance to hear the voice of God. For the Ebionites, Jesus is this prophet, the prophet of truth. A simple lifestyle is desired by God. If anything, "simple living" is insufficiently radical to describe what the Ebionites had in mind. The name ebionim means "the poor" in Hebrew; the Ebionites traced their "poverty" back to the time when all the followers of Jesus held all their possessions in common (Acts 4:32-35).

 

•Jesus condemns animal sacrifice. "I came to abolish sacrifices," says Jesus in the Ebionite gospel, "and unless you cease sacrificing, my anger will not cease from you" (Panarion 30.16.5). One of the chief purposes of the true prophet in the Recognitions and the Homilies is to show the Jewish people that the practice of animal sacrifice must be ended.

 

•Jesus teaches vegetarianism. Epiphanius describes the Ebionites as vegetarians, and in the Recognitions and Homilies vegetarianism is strongly connected to the rejection of animal sacrifice and is required of all the followers of Jesus. When Epiphanius questions a Jewish Christian as to why he was a vegetarian, the Jewish Christian responds simply: "Christ revealed it to me" (Panarion 30.18.9).

 

•Alcohol should be avoided. The Ebionites used water instead of wine in celebrating the Eucharist. The Homilies has Peter attacking alcohol and attacking paganism because of its drunken worship (Homilies 11.15).

 

•God has one law for everyone. The distinction between Jew and gentile is abolished for the Jewish Christians just as it was for Paul (Galatians 3:28), but with a different result altogether-everyone should follow the universal and eternal law (Homilies 8.10) revealed to Moses (Recognitions 1.35). In this respect the Ebionites were traditional Jews who sought to convert the world to their version of Judaism.

 

•The law has been distorted with false texts. This is a highly unusual doctrine, heretical both to orthodox Jews and orthodox Christians: that the Jewish scriptures have been distorted, with the result that not everything in the scriptures can be trusted. Specifically, the Ebionites thought that laws relating to animal sacrifice were later corruptions, though there were a number of other distortions as well.

 

•Warfare is condemned. Epiphanius does not mention pacifism, but several passages in the Recognitions, undoubtedly of Jewish Christian origin, espouse pacifist principles. In Recognitions 1, when Paul before his conversion tries to murder James, the Christians offer no violence in return because of their pacifist principles. Later, Peter announces opposition to war (Recognitions 3.42).

 

•Christ has already appeared many times. The Ebionites felt that Jesus' life was neither the first nor last appearance of the Christ. According to Epiphanius, the Ebionites thought that Christ was "in Adam" and appeared, as Adam, to the patriarchs. "Christ" usually refers to Jesus, but is sometimes used by the Ebionites as a title meaning "the anointed one": the Recognitions implies that all believers are anointed as "Christs" (1.45).'

 

•Baptism is important for salvation. The Ebionites believed that baptism was important-it replaced animal sacrifice (Recognitions 1.39). However, baptism is described in contradictory ways, sometimes as a one-time ritual conferring salvation, sometimes as a daily ritual-like prayer.

 

•There is only one God. The Ebionites were not only monotheists but also strict unitarians who denied the orthodox doctrine of the trinity. For the Ebionites, God does not appear in three persons; Jesus is the prophet of God and the Messiah, but is not the same as God.

 

•Paul was an apostate from the law. The Ebionites didn't like Paul at all, considering him "an apostate" from the law. In the Recognitions and Homilies there is no direct attack on Paul, but when Peter debates his opponent, Simon Magus, he attacks ideas that are often similar to Paul's views-for instance, that one can become an apostle on the basis of a vision of Jesus."

...

If we didn't have this channeling, I would never have gone looking for colloborating information, so thank you Michael and Troy.

 

 

 

Edited by Al Garcia
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It is a Mature Soul World/Paradigm and for humanity to continue in a direction of value, meaning, and interest, a shift is necessary for moving away from individual fulfillment to collective fulfillment, away from survival and debt and consuming and having and toward safety, choice, responsibility, and sharing.

Keep in mind that the Manifestations of Infinite Souls are not with fanfare or announcement or mystical or magical waves of events and signs.

It will be more and more difficult for individuals to opt out of being involved in at least one Cause that is focused on improvement for Earth and its inhabitants. These are the teachings we find from the Infinite and Transcendental Souls so far.

The details can be deeply painful but the bigger picture is on track as systems shift and crumble and prompt rebuilding and replacement.

 

This is what Michael had to say once about Religion:

We have yet to see a more powerfully marketed, unquestioningly-purchased, and ultimately pointless product on your Planet.

This is not to say that value is not ultimately extracted from the experience, but we have seen more detours in personal and global evolution due to the freely-accepted oppression of religion than from any other context in your history.

Religion is a young soul construct using the ingredients of baby soul myths.

 

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5 hours ago, Al Garcia said:

 

•There is only one God. The Ebionites were not only monotheists but also strict unitarians who denied the orthodox doctrine of the trinity. For the Ebionites, God does not appear in three persons; Jesus is the prophet of God and the Messiah, but is not the same as God.

@Al GarciaI have read your text with great interest. I also have read some of the more disputed early gospels, like the one of Thomas. I am aware of the fact that in Nicaea 325CE many of these early Christian texts were dropped from the New-Testament. At that time Epiphanius was but a child but maybe these old texts still existed back then and were taken into consideration. At the end however, I found the above quotation that would then effectively rule out Jesus/Christ as being the incarnation of the infinite soul.

 

5 hours ago, Al Garcia said:

 

As far as Jesus's vegetarianism there are several documents that mention the vegetarianism of the Jewish Christian branches of Christianity around 300 to 400 BC.

I think you meant CE here, right?

First meantion of the Ebionites dates back to the destruction of the temple in 70CE. 

 

As for vegetarianism not being mentioned in the Bible, I could give you a lot of quotes beginning with Genesis 1:29. These are both pro and con, so I guess vegetarianism has been a heated spiritual debate for a long time!

Edited by Hjortur
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1 hour ago, Hjortur said:
6 hours ago, Al Garcia said:

 

•There is only one God. The Ebionites were not only monotheists but also strict unitarians who denied the orthodox doctrine of the trinity. For the Ebionites, God does not appear in three persons; Jesus is the prophet of God and the Messiah, but is not the same as God.

@Al GarciaI have read your text with great interest. I also have read some of the more disputed early gospels, like the one of Thomas. I am aware of the fact that in Nicaea 325CE many of these early Christian texts were dropped from the New-Testament. At that time Epiphanius was but a child but maybe these old texts still existed back then and were taken into consideration. At the end however, I found the above quotation that would then effectively rule out Jesus/Christ as being the incarnation of the infinite soul.

 

Hjortur, 

 

I don't see how the above quotation rules out Jesus/Christ as being the incarnation of the infinite soul. It just says that the Ebionites did not see Jesus as God. He was a prophet to them. The IS is not a god. People, young/baby souls, make them into legends and then gods as Petra pointed above.

1 hour ago, Hjortur said:
6 hours ago, Al Garcia said:

 

As far as Jesus's vegetarianism there are several documents that mention the vegetarianism of the Jewish Christian branches of Christianity around 300 to 400 BC.

I think you meant CE here, right?

First meantion of the Ebionites dates back to the destruction of the temple in 70CE. 

 

As for vegetarianism not being mentioned in the Bible, I could give you a lot of quotes beginning with Genesis 1:29. These are both pro and con, so I guess vegetarianism has been a heated spiritual debate for a long time!

 

Yes, I meant CE. Thank you for the correction and for the correction that vegetarianism is mentioned in the Bible.

 

Yes the Ebionites date back to the destruction of the Temple by the Romans. It just validates to me Troy's channeling about Jesus. The Jewish Christians, led by Jesus brother James the just, were vegetarian and against animal sacrifice, which put them at odds with the Temple. So weird that growing up I never heard about this early Christian teaching. 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Al Garcia said:

The IS is not a god. People, young/baby souls, make them into legends and then gods as Petra pointed above.

The IS (Christ) is the TAO incarnate on earth. I think Michael said its presence can only be active for 30 days before burning  the host(Jesus) out.

I equated God with TAO when quoting your text. With TAO or God, I mean "sum of all there is" or as in the pantheistic way of thinking; the universe as one sentient being encompassing and at the same time present in all its elements and beings.

I have at times had thoughts of whether there only was one incarnation of the IS at the time of Jesus or if all that massive IS impact was later consolidated into representing just one human being in the texts. 

 

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There are a lot of interesting and thought-provoking posts in this thread.  I will add this;  the Truth is the Truth (the word "truth" is intentionally capitalized) and it seems to me that we must all discern the Truth for ourselves.  Any time a teacher or a religion begins to impose rules or tries to dictate the things that one "must" do......it makes me immediately and profoundly uncomfortable.  This is why I have personally rejected all organized religions.  One of the things I most appreciate about the Michael teachings is that there are no "rules" or "requirements" to be a Michael student.  We are here to learn what we can learn.  The teachings our offered without condition and we are encouraged to validate to our own satisfaction.  The Michael teachings require no special clothing or rituals, no specific diets or practices.  All students will learn at their own pace and in their own time.  

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5 hours ago, petra said:

It is a Mature Soul World/Paradigm and for humanity to continue in a direction of value, meaning, and interest, a shift is necessary for moving away from individual fulfillment to collective fulfillment, away from survival and debt and consuming and having and toward safety, choice, responsibility, and sharing.

Keep in mind that the Manifestations of Infinite Souls are not with fanfare or announcement or mystical or magical waves of events and signs.

It will be more and more difficult for individuals to opt out of being involved in at least one Cause that is focused on improvement for Earth and its inhabitants. These are the teachings we find from the Infinite and Transcendental Souls so far.

The details can be deeply painful but the bigger picture is on track as systems shift and crumble and prompt rebuilding and replacement.

 

This is what Michael had to say once about Religion:

We have yet to see a more powerfully marketed, unquestioningly-purchased, and ultimately pointless product on your Planet.

This is not to say that value is not ultimately extracted from the experience, but we have seen more detours in personal and global evolution due to the freely-accepted oppression of religion than from any other context in your history.

Religion is a young soul construct using the ingredients of baby soul myths.

 

 

Has Michael ever given an explicit definition of what exactly they mean by "religion?"  I've looked and haven't had much luck.

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@Sam K  Has Michael ever given an explicit definition of what exactly they mean by "religion?"  I've looked and haven't had much luck.

In the view years here on TLE, I am not aware of that someone has asked that question, but maybe someone else might know.

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I feel called to clarify some things.  An Infinite Soul is a representative of a reunited cadre from one of the 3 higher planes (Messianic, Buddhaic, or Mental) that incarnates in a 7th level Old soul's physical body by agreement for less than 30 days (because a human body cannot handle the energy of a higher plane for longer than that).  The fragment that normally embodies that body moves aside (or out) for the duration of the IS manifestation.  Then it moves back in (or the body dies and the fragment goes to the astral plane).  So, the IS is different from the soul fragment that embodied/embodies the body when the IS is not in it.

 

Therefore, it is sometimes confusing to talk about an historical figure that was embodied by the IS.  Are we talking about the IS?  Or about the 7th level old fragment that embodies that body when the IS is not manifesting?

 

Jesus was one such body that had an agreement with the Infinite Soul to serve as the vessel for it to embody.  But the Infinite Soul is not Christ, per se.  The Infinite Soul that inhabited Jesus was from the Messianic plane.  The orientation of the Messianic plane is Love.  The concept of "Christ consciousness" is associated with this plane and the IS that manifested in Jesus's body.
 

Other bodies that held the Infinite Soul were Buddha, Krishna, and Lao-Tzu.  The IS that inhabited Buddha's body was from the Buddhaic plane (which is oriented towards Energy/Beauty).  The IS that inhabited Lao-Tzu was, I think, from the Mental Plane (which is oriented towards Truth).

 

The Infinite Soul manifests when we are in times of extreme change and attendant disruption on the physical plane.  As Shepherd Hoodwin wrote in Journey of Your Soul, the Infinite Soul "incarnates in order to catalyze massive spiritual change in civilization, generally during a shift from one average soul age to another."  We are currently in the middle of one such shift--from the Young Soul dominant world to a Mature Soul dominant world.  Troy and other Michael channels have gotten info that the probable upcoming Infinite Soul manifestation will probably take place in several bodies over the course of a period of time.  Meaning, it won't be just one body that will manifest the IS--It will be several around the world.

 

Of interest, each of the past IS manifestations has had an organized religion formed around it.  It is not the goal or the purpose of the IS manifestation to create a new religion.  It is what humans tend to do when faced with an intense soul experience like the manifestation of the IS.  Much of this organized religion are ideas somewhat related to what people felt around the IS that get set in stone in human ways and turns into a rigid set of rules by which to live.  They are described as dictated by "God."  As we know, the Tao has no such physical plane rules or guidelines.

 

Whether or not Jesus was a vegan is a completely different discussion, I think.  One that is difficult to have due to which soul we are talking about.  The IS or the 7th level old fragment?  Also, I think these kind of discussions pertain more to each individual-who-is-having-the discussion's beliefs on the topic.  Also, are we talking about myths or history?  Can we be sure which is which?  For example, on the one hand, there are some myths attached to Jesus that involve eating animals.  One such myth was that of the loaves and fishes that Jesus multiplied for eating by people who were hungry.  Also, many of his close followers were fishermen.   On the other hand, there are (apparently) other myths that say that Jesus was a vegan or vegetarian.  I think one can find a myriad of "evidence" to support either idea.  For the record, I have seen Michael channeling that says that it is OK to eat meat.  There are others who will argue that Michael has been channeled as saying it is not OK to eat meat.

 

Also, the Michael students on this site tend to be particularly strong in their convictions about veganism.  There is very little tolerance on this site for non-veganism (as is evidenced even in some comments above).  Therefore, it seems to me to be quite unproductive to try to engage in any discussion here on whether or not anyone (including a manifested Infinite Soul) ate meat or used animal products.

 

Edited for clarity.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by JeanneS
clarity
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20 hours ago, petra said:

This is what Michael had to say once about Religion:

We have yet to see a more powerfully marketed, unquestioningly-purchased, and ultimately pointless product on your Planet.

This is not to say that value is not ultimately extracted from the experience, but we have seen more detours in personal and global evolution due to the freely-accepted oppression of religion than from any other context in your history.

Religion is a young soul construct using the ingredients of baby soul myths.

A definition of what the meaning of this word "religion" is in the Michael vocabulary is needed, I concur with @Sam K

I only hope that my own Entity 2:4 has been, is or will be not so judgmental when being channeled. In my experience humans tend to seek out religion rather than being ensnared in it as the above channeling suggests. Of course, the Michael's only have the definition given in the channels subconscious mind to work from, this is the caveat of channeling.  

In my view, the word "religion" refers not only to the organized one but also to the more personal experience of the connection with all there is, whatever name you would choose to give that experience.  It is fully understandable that the profound life-changing personal event of directly experiencing the IS would tend to make people want to share that experience with each other. Is that so bad, even if it happened to start a religion as a result?

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8 hours ago, JeanneS said:

 

Whether or not Jesus was a vegan is a completely different discussion, I think.  One that is difficult to have due to which soul we are talking about.  The IS or the 7th level old fragment?  Also, I think these kind of discussions pertain more to each individual-who-is-having-the discussion's beliefs on the topic.  Also, are we talking about myths or history?  Can we be sure which is which?  For example, on the one hand, there are some myths attached to Jesus that involve eating animals.  One such myth was that of the loaves and fishes that Jesus multiplied for eating by people who were hungry.  Also, many of his close followers were fishermen.   On the other hand, there are (apparently) other myths that say that Jesus was a vegan or vegetarian.  I think one can find a myriad of "evidence" to support either idea.  For the record, I have seen Michael channeling that says that it is OK to eat meat.  There are others who will argue that Michael has been channeled as saying it is not OK to eat meat.

It's a bit strange that veganism is such a big issue here. After all, your soul might be/is/was reincarnated in a Inuit village or places like my birthplace at any point in history. You would then live your life eating seal blubber or fermented shark(mouth watering). At some point in your life, you might take a trip to the local Shaman and be amazed when he told you that you had been a fanatical vegan in your previous life. Of course as the word "vegan" would be nonexistent in the Shaman's subconscious mind, he would translate it to "Non-meat eater" and as he would be unaware of any other ways to sustain the body, he might simply conclude that you starved yourself to death in your previous life. 

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11 hours ago, Hjortur said:

It's a bit strange that veganism is such a big issue here. After all, your soul might be/is/was reincarnated in a Inuit village or places like my birthplace at any point in history. You would then live your life eating seal blubber or fermented shark(mouth watering). At some point in your life, you might take a trip to the local Shaman and be amazed when he told you that you had been a fanatical vegan in your previous life. Of course as the word "vegan" would be nonexistent in the Shaman's subconscious mind, he would translate it to "Non-meat eater" and as he would be unaware of any other ways to sustain the body, he might simply conclude that you starved yourself to death in your previous life. 

 

The reason is context, which is that we have 7.5 billion humans on earth, and the planet can't sustain our rate of consumption if we continue to eat high on the food chain (which uses up 4-12 times more resources than eating the plants directly, depending on the animal being eaten). Fish populations are being decimated, and there are estimates that we might run out of commercially viable fish populations by around 2050. Our fish is also contaminated with mercury, dioxins, and other toxins due to the oceans being polluted. Does it make sense to apply the context of a small fishing village with nothing else to eat due to their extreme northern location to the rest of the world? 

 

From a soul evolution standpoint, we've probably all had lifetimes where we murdered someone and fought in wars, and thought that was justified. Does it mean we should keep doing those things? Or do we change our hearts and minds as we grow and learn different ways of doing things?

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@DianeHBIn a way it does make sense to compare Iceland with the rest of the world, as a kind of role model.

It's populated by 370.000 people so it's not that small or just a fishing village! It's a kind of a closed ecosystem and Icelanders are bound by nature's rhythm for life and death. In the past 1100 years 1/3 of Iceland's population have died off during the volcanic eruption each 200 years or so.

Iceland and other countries that fish in the north Atlantic closely monitor the fish population and health, banning fishing of certain species for years if there is risk of overfishing. This monitoring of the fish population has been conducted with increased accuracy as technology has developed for more than 60 years.

Iceland has never fought wars, exterminated indigenous populations or destroyed the ecosystem by mining or polluting industry.

As for using nature's resources ecologically, waterfall and geothermal energy supply all electricity and central heating with waste water from the geothermal powerplants. Busses run on hydrogen produced by this eco-friendly electricity. Most of the food is produced locally besides wheat flour that is now becoming viable due to the temperature increase. 

What I was trying to point out in a kind of clumsy way, was the non-linear nature of the soul's "evolution" on the material plane. Especially as old soul's, we can have "next" life's in the past as well as the future or multiple parallel lives. But in the soul's reality we are experiencing them all at once.

Maybe most of us nearly 8 billions, are here in multiples of parallel lives to experience the coming incarnations of the IS. It's a sad thought from the personalities perspective that these IS incarnations might have the purpose of helping us deal with the massive deaths due to starvation and wars caused by the climate change although also helping us build a new and better tomorrow.

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3 hours ago, Hjortur said:

@DianeHBIn a way it does make sense to compare Iceland with the rest of the world, as a kind of role model.

It's populated by 370.000 people so it's not that small or just a fishing village! It's a kind of a closed ecosystem and Icelanders are bound by nature's rhythm for life and death. In the past 1100 years 1/3 of Iceland's population have died off during the volcanic eruption each 200 years or so.

Iceland and other countries that fish in the north Atlantic closely monitor the fish population and health, banning fishing of certain species for years if there is risk of overfishing. This monitoring of the fish population has been conducted with increased accuracy as technology has developed for more than 60 years.

Iceland has never fought wars, exterminated indigenous populations or destroyed the ecosystem by mining or polluting industry.

As for using nature's resources ecologically, waterfall and geothermal energy supply all electricity and central heating with waste water from the geothermal powerplants. Busses run on hydrogen produced by this eco-friendly electricity. Most of the food is produced locally besides wheat flour that is now becoming viable due to the temperature increase. 

What I was trying to point out in a kind of clumsy way, was the non-linear nature of the soul's "evolution" on the material plane. Especially as old soul's, we can have "next" life's in the past as well as the future or multiple parallel lives. But in the soul's reality we are experiencing them all at once.

Maybe most of us nearly 8 billions, are here in multiples of parallel lives to experience the coming incarnations of the IS. It's a sad thought from the personalities perspective that these IS incarnations might have the purpose of helping us deal with the massive deaths due to starvation and wars caused by the climate change although also helping us build a new and better tomorrow.

 

In that case, your point is not really any different from those of vegans -- we are all aiming for sustainability and more harmony with nature, and in places where we're extremely out of balance, veganism is one of the ways people can do something immediately on an individual level to reject factory farming and mitigate their impact on the environment when our practices are nowhere near sustainable. We aren't all living in homogenous small-ish populations (370,000 is quite small for a country -- my city is about twice that population), and our systems are often controlled by younger souls.

 

I find your last statement a bit odd... the IS comes during times where humanity is headed in the wrong direction -- toward extinction -- or during times of prosperity. I think it's obvious which one we're in. If we were really managing the planet wisely and living in harmony, the IS would hardly need to come in the first place. 

Edited by DianeHB
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10 hours ago, DianeHB said:

 

In that case, your point is not really any different from those of vegans -- we are all aiming for sustainability and more harmony with nature, and in places where we're extremely out of balance, veganism is one of the ways people can do something immediately on an individual level to reject factory farming and mitigate their impact on the environment when our practices are nowhere near sustainable. We aren't all living in homogenous small-ish populations (370,000 is quite small for a country -- my city is about twice that population), and our systems are often controlled by younger souls.

 

I find your last statement a bit odd... the IS comes during times where humanity is headed in the wrong direction -- toward extinction -- or during times of prosperity. I think it's obvious which one we're in. If we were really managing the planet wisely and living in harmony, the IS would hardly need to come in the first place. 

@DianeHB Thank you for your understanding, I know that we live in different political environments and yes....Iceland's population is not that big. 

About my last statement, I agree it was clumsily written and I will try to clarify it below.

 

My feeling is that humanity has been heading in the wrong direction and that this realization is now slowly sinking in due to the impact of the climate changes. The bronze age collapse was due to a milder variant of the climate change we are now facing, the effects were famine and wars. I think we are facing the same effects this time round, only more severe. I think a lot of people are going to die due to starvation and wars as desperate nations facing starvation try to overtake a more resourceful countries. During this catastrophe and in the turbulent aftermath, I think those IS incarnations will appear to guide us on our way to a new, better and more sustainable society. 

 

As a note, a lot of space companies like Spacex are currently developing means of transporting humans away from Earth. This in my opinion might indicate a feeling of imminent doom on a global scale that results in such a frantic pace of development in this sector.  

 

Edited by Hjortur
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Squid Game as a Harbinger of the Infinite Soul?
 When Jesus manifested within the Roman Empire’s Province of Judea, ~1 in 3 people was a slave, and Gladiator Games were one of the most popular forms of entertainment...

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-features/squid-game-review-1240522/ 

We Have Seen the Enemy in ‘Squid Game’ — and It Is Us 

The Netflix sensation out of South Korea offers a parable of modern life as blood sport. The fact that it doesn’t feel far-fetched is its twisted appeal

 

The world has been through so much economic, physical, and emotional hardship in the past couple of years, even as the fortunes of the wealthiest have increased. We live in a time when the border between parody and reality feels agonizingly thin, to the point where if we found out there was a real Squid Game–style tournament happening somewhere, not only would many of us not be surprised, but there would be cable-news personalities and members of Congress lining up to defend the practice within hours of this discovery.

 

https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/576386-squid-game-creator-says-trump-helped-prove-world-was-ready-for 

 President Trump helped prove that the world was ready for the dystopian series, IndieWire reported. 

 

South Korean director Hwang Dong-hyuk said he had been sitting on "theories" for the show since 2008, when events including the Lehman Brothers crisis and South Korea's economic crisis gripped headlines at a time when he was also personally struggling financially. 

 

He likened Trump to the show's "VIP" characters, ultrarich patrons of the game who wear gold animal masks in order to maintain their anonymity as they watch and bet on the contestants playing games with deadly stakes. 

"Then Donald Trump became the president of the United States and I think he kind of resembles one of the VIPs in the Squid Game. It’s almost like he’s running a game show, not a country, like giving people horror. After all these issues happened, I thought it was about time that this show goes out into the world," he added.

 

 

MEntity: The notion that others were only in existence to serve a central beneficiary was absurd to him and he made this known. He was able to voice these concerns as invitations for others to join him in that consideration, which led to a shift in dynamics among those around him.

MEntity: The Manifestation did not have the effect desired, but without this Infinite Soul, it would have been devastating.

MEntity: Slavery had already taken root in humanity and it was on track to be addressed, but with sexual repression added, it was no longer about breaking down obvious structures of oppression.

With sexual repression moving into the mix, it would no longer be about external structures being dismantled, but about internalized constructs that would leave humans enslaved to dynamics that would fracture the species in unfathomable ways, opening up humanity to exploitations never experienced before.

 

[Bobby] Why did an IS manifest during Jesus' time? There wasn't any peril pending so was it because it was an especially prosperous period for mankind?

 

MEntity:
The impending shift from Baby to Young on the planet at that time was heading for disastrous consequences. The manifestation through Jesus was an attempt to bring the Logos of Love and Agape to the planet, not only for the sake of helping transition retain some sense of compassion and empathy, but to help those who would naturally fall into the lower economic or social positions create and nurture meaning in ways other than material.

 

Christianity is an example of how those "seeds" were lost overall against the prevailing patterns of choices, and the use of such seeds by a Young Soul population, but remained intact for those who chose otherwise.

 

However painful the transition was from Baby to Young, the alternatives were far worse. By "worse," we mean that in those parallels where the Infinite Soul did not manifest, or where the Logos was rejected entirely, all sense of meaning and empathy were lost to those who did not have a material means of reflecting personal value.

 

This is disastrous, even to the early Young Souls, as the system and symbols for those material reflections must be worked out, agreed upon, and explored before being utilized. If there is no patience, compassion, and empathy along the way, a halt to any interest in "being alive" comes in.

 

Mass suicides and genocides, along with a sudden drop in birth rates, ended some parallels of exploration at that time.

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