Michael Speaks: Education

[Janet 18,594]

February 7, 2002
Troy Tolley, Channel
Education Part One

 

Note from Janet: This transcript refers to the session as 'Part 1', but it does not appear another session on the topic was ever held. 

 

[M_Entity]

Hello to all of you. We are here. We will begin with the Energy Report as it stands for the weeks between February 9th through the 22nd of the same month.

 

You are now well into the energy described as Discrimination, and so far, the energy has seemed to be generally maintained in the Positive Poles for most. The most obvious effect from this energy will be in the heightened awareness of a single or couple of MAJOR choices needing to be made. We said the first couple of weeks looked to be calm and an opportunity for restful interaction with Essence, but the next couple of weeks appear to be focused on making the one or two major choices that will alter the life in some way. It could be said to be a pivotal period of time for many of you on a personal level.

 

The period of time that supported time for restful interaction with Essence apparently was to help in the process of gaining more consciousness in Choice. Although Decisions are made all of the time, Choices are made that alter the life and create Parallels. Decisions lead to Choices. When Decisions are made, Personality can be aligned with Essence or not. When Choice is made, the alignment is seriously examined and this is a strong factor in how Choice is made. This could indicate an upsurge in most people, particular Mature and Old Souls, to implement a regular routine now of communicating to Essence in more personal ways.

 

As this is a Moving Centered Year, as we have said in other contact, this will most likely mean you will be taking into consideration how your immediate environment reflects your relationship to Essence. Symbolism is very high right now, too, in terms of home arrangement, dreams, and “omens.” It is a particularly clear time to consult your favorite oracles, mediums, or channels. It is a particularly clear time to speak to and listen to (communicate with) people around you who might have insight, whether they realize it or not.

 

February 12 appears to be highlighted as significant and pivotal. We realize this is the “Chinese new year,” we believe, but we do not refer to the date because of that. It simply seems to be the most sensitive and unformed day within the period of time in question. This tends to imply significance on a larger level.

 

We will take your questions about the Energy Report now. If there are no questions, we will begin on the Topic.

 

[Glenn] I notice a correlation to the period you discuss with the Mayan calendar. According to that, we are just ending a period of “core days,” where we work on core issues. Can you comment?

 

[M_Entity]

We have found through many of our students and channels that there tends to be a correlation between our perspective of energy patterns and the Mayan pattern mapped by their calendar. We can only say that this serves to act as validation for us and our students that the Mayan Calendar and its implications are worth examination.

 

The mapping of celestial tides and patterns so far into the future are valid. The interpretations of these patterns, however, are symbolic. This is what makes the validity so uncanny. Astrology as you know it, is certainly not as clear and it does not claim the same detail. The only “flaw” in the Mayan interpretations is when the calendar “ends.” The commonly accepted date is off.

 

[Kieran] Would the teaching of a simple core speaking language (one exists) make a big difference in breaking down cultural barriers and misunderstandings world wide?

 

[M_Entity]
Yes, of course. This does not usually occur as a World Truth until the latter part of a Mature Soul Age. Until that time, the focus is from a stronger Young Soul influence on maintaining “culture,” “heritage,” “history,” and “tradition.”

 

The beginning of a Mature Soul world goes through a long and tedious period of “reaching out” in ways to acknowledge and understand all minority groups’ identification. This allows everyone to feel as if they have been included and are a part of the world. Then the task of weaving these differences into cohesion is taken on, and the first method of choice is choosing a common language. This concept is met with less reaction and pride by that time.

 

[Anne49] With reference to the Mayan Calendar’s end date being “off,” will you tell us what the correct date is?

 

[M_Entity]

We will look at the Mayan Calendar’s accurate ending as we move through tonight. We are having a block at this time in that area through this channel. [NOTE from TROY: I have not made time to get Michael’s response to this, yet]

 

If there are no more questions, we will begin with the Topic.

 

Education, Part One

 

The topic of Education is a broad one. We will be sharing some basic considerations we believe would help fragments begin a life with optimum potential and development of personal tools.

 

“Education” begins within 48 hours of Physical Birth. The Body is a complete sensory unit and focal point “into” the Physical Plane for Essence at that time. We say the Body is “complete” as a sensory unit at that time because, relative to later influences, certain senses may or may not be heightened or diminished over time.

 

For the first 7 years of a life, in general, the Essence gradually “moves in.” Essence does not live through the Body before that period of time, though there are exceptions. During the first 7 years, past life Personalities of relevance, as well as Essence, “care” for the Body and direct it and those fragments of importance around it for as many opportunities for imprinting as possible. When we say the “Essence and past Personalities direct those of importance,” we do not imply this is done through deceit or imposition. It is done through Agreement formation and fulfillment in most cases, or Karma.

 

However the Body is cared for and guided, between the ages of 2 and 3 the Centering has become habit. This then would become one of its Overleaves. This is the first Overleaf of importance in determining the beginnings of Education on a higher level than primal.

 

Children, then, can easily be said to be from three basic groups: Moving Centered, Intellectually Centered, and Emotionally Centered. There are, of course, those who are Instinctive Centered, and we will address these rare fragments another time.

 

If intentional Education is addressed to fragments before the age of 7, it is helpful to acknowledge their primary Centering during that time as the priority.

 

Moving Centered children, indicated many times by Physical symptoms in the skin (barring basic “diaper rash”) and tendencies to hit, bounce, stand, and/or pull more strongly, would gain more from focus on toys that encourage the EARS or HEARING.

 

Intellectually Centered children, indicated many times by far more vocalizations, screaming, and “tantrums,” would do well with an emphasis on toys that require physical contact, touching.

 

Emotionally Centered children, indicated many times by more quiet, smiling, and “good” babies, would do well with an emphasis on toys which require balance, combining, and color. (Emotionally Centered children see color far earlier than other children.)

 

Before we continue, we will pause for questions about educating children up the age of 7. Are there any questions?

 

[ClaireN] How does the environment affect learning?

 

[M_Entity]

If you consider the basic route of education for the child under 7 years of age, then it could be said that any emphasis on the more distracting influences could diminish learning. It could also be said that an OVER emphasis can be damaging. For instance if an Emotionally Centered child has a focus on Hearing, they may lose the important development from the more complementary route of Color, Balance, and Combining. Then again, if they are overexposed to harsh colors and chaos, they may tend to inhibit all interest in anything to complement their Centering. If an Intellectually Centered child has more of a focus on Hearing and Music, for another example, they may lose the important shaping from the more complementary need for Touch and Physical Interaction; though if they are carelessly touched, or indifferently cared for, they can be greatly damaged.

 

As you can see, most caretakers intuitively provide ALL of the possible complementary toys and methods for education. But we can say that if an emphasis of a healthier development is a consideration, the more specific suggestions are important.

 

Did this answer your question?

 

[ClaireN] Yes, thank you.

 

[M_Entity]

You may have noticed that what we have suggested as educational focus is not primary to the Centering that is developing. Instead, it is complementary in that the emphasis will create a contrast to create a “rounding out” of the Center, creating less of an opportunity for the Center to live in a TRAP or PART, later. By the Age of 7, the Part is a habit. The greater the comprehension and strength of the Center by that time, the less it depends on a Part, but instead, uses ALL Parts appropriately.

 

From the Age of 7, the focus of Education would best be geared toward defining the “Primary Essence Influence.” We say “Primary Essence Influence” because Essence may or may not be supported by the Overleaves as they rest on a predominate Axis. When it comes to a lifetime, especially before the 4th Internal Monad, the Personality, as the OVERLEAVES define it, is the most important concern, not necessarily the Role of Essence. Emphasizing discovering the Personality and its focus is key in allowing Essence to manifest as clearly and consistently as possible later in life.

 

With that being said, it must be considered that past the age of 7, Education must address 3 very vital areas of the Personality: The Goal, the Mode, and the Attitude. Currently, those with an emphasis on Overleaves resting on the Inspiration, Expressive Axes are lost to the emphasis on the Moving and Assimilative Axes.

 

Creative, Inspiring activities and outlets are not available in any meaningful way until after what is called High School, in most cases. Because the system is focused on only supporting only the Moving or Assimilative Axes, even if programs are in place for Expression and Inspiration, they are ridiculed, belittled, and under-funded, separating that group of Personalities in potentially detrimental ways.

 

We suggest an overhaul of this basic inconsiderate system of education by not only creating methods of teaching that accommodate each Axis, but also accommodate each area of important development in terms of the Goal, Mode, and Attitude. This would mean teaching children from the primary axis of Inspiration through methods that encourage Emotional associations, feelings, and intuition. Teaching children from the primary axis of Action to be taught through sports, physical interaction, and tactile methods. Teaching Expressive Axis children through stories, expression, acting, communication, art, performance and stage.

 

This is highly simplistic, but we realize the time frame we have through this channel is limited.

 

Using the appropriate methods based on Axis, the school “day” would then be emphasized in 3 segments, each focusing on either the Goal, Mode, or Attitude. This basically means developing and encouraging the basic tendencies and interests of the child as he or she has shown interest (the goal), teaching the very basics of intimacy, sexuality, relationships, and exposure to varying cultures (the Mode). Teaching the 7 basic philosophies on the planet (the attitude).

 

We cannot emphasize enough the importance of teaching the 7 basic philosophies before or during the teen years. If there is one, single aspect of education that condemns a society to unhealthy development and division, it is in the lack of understanding your own personal perceptions/philosophy and those of others.

 

We will add here that we have not forgotten the Assimilative Axis. This Axis, of all of them, is the most adaptable and would gravitate itself toward the Axis most meaningful at varying points of development. The irony is in the “backward” approach to using, instead, the whole of Assimilation as the means to teach, rather than allowing those who are naturally Assimilative to adapt.

 

We will pause here for questions, noting that this topic is far from concluded here, though the time is running out. If there are no more questions, we will conclude here.

 

[JNelson] How do the Overleaves figure into how to teach a specific subject matter that a culture has already decided to teach? For instance, how would you teach Inspiration or Emotionally inclined fragments about math?

 

[M_Entity]

The premise of a subject would not change. In the case of Math, of course the focus must be on objects and their relation to each other. For each Axis, it is not necessarily that the means to teach would vary so wildly, but that the emphasis in the environment would change.

 

For instance, the Inspirational children would learn Math based in an environment that is less structured, more intuitive, and made room for feelings. The Expressive children would learn through socializing, acting out the theories in story or song, and playing.

 

A stereotypical classroom for the Inspirational children would be calmer, working with 3 dimensional representations, and using discussion, guessing, and emotional language. A Stereotypical classroom for the Expressive children would be boisterous, loud, using humor, food, and smells and lots and lots of personal associations to learn. The difference we propose is that a room with structure, pen and paper, and facing forward, are only specifically beneficial to Assimilation, and secondarily to Action. Beanbags chairs, toys, and stage, regardless of the subject, would keep a Sage’s or Artisan’s attention in any subject all the way through High School.

 

Although we are not complete on this subject, we will conclude here. We will continue this subject at the request of our students, if the interest is there.

 

Good Night.

[KurtisM 15,625]

I'd love to hear more about this.

[ckaricai 6,491]

I would also like to hear more especially in regards to children and teens with disabilities. 

[Timothy J Sullivan 1,538]

Yes, this is a critical topic going forward. Love to hear a LOT more! 

[John 255]

 

How interesting to see some links leading back to this particular session pop up again!  Or, at least, it's interesting for me.  Particularly the brief mention about how in the first seven years of life the Essence gradually moves into the body.  That concept resonates with one of my earliest memories.

 

When I was a young child (before seven I believe) I used to hate going to bed.  It frightened me.  Not so much the usual fear of the dark, or fear of monsters under the bed or in the closet -- but because when I was very young I was afraid that one day I would go to sleep and that when I woke up again I wouldn't be "me" any more ... I'd be someone else.  I remember having a sense of great relief, almost crying about it sometimes, when I'd wake up in the morning and I'd still be me.  Then when night came around again I would try everything I could think of to keep from falling asleep.  I'd read through picture books, play with stuffed animals, tell myself stories.  Eventually, though, I'd just drop off.

 

One day, and I can't remember when, I stopped being afraid of loosing who I was between sleeping and waking.  I don't know if it's because I outgrew the fear as something irrational ... or if it's because the fear came true and one day when I woke up I wasn't the "me" I had been before, but some new "me" that I had become.  I wonder if I'm now the me I was afraid I'd someday become when I was very young?  I suppose it's possible.

 

Regardless -- y'all stay awesome!

 

[Janet 18,594]

On my first day of school, I stood at the front window of my house, gazing out. I was 6, and excited about finally getting to go to school, even though schools were overcrowded and we had split sessions -- one group of kids in the mornings and one in the afternoons. I was in the afternoons, which I guess explains how I was able to stand at leisure looking out the window during the daytime. I don't know where my mother was, but she and my 3-year-old brother were silent. I was all alone. We would leave for school within the hour. I reached a meditative state of some sort, and the thought came to me, a very serious and not a 6-year-old thought: "Now it begins." I've not asked Michael, but I'm pretty sure that's the point when Essence settled in. 

[petra 11,186]

I seemingly was not an easy child, nor for my parents, and peoples in my environment. I remember so well, around the age of 6, I was sitting at a creek a mile away from our village, there were those beautiful flowers, and I starred at them the whole day, listening to the water, at sunset I got up, with the thought, I have to listen to them too, meaning my parents and the other peoples, and in walking home and the decision made, I had the feeling something just cracked my spine. Yes, I settled in as a persona and Essence gave it all to me. What a trip in finding her again.

[Jeroen 12,412]

My first memory in my life was when I must have been a baby in Rotterdam. My family attended a party with other family and friends. I was being held by someone and could see the people in the room we were in which was dimly lit. I have a few memories of pre-school somewhere between the age of 3-5. I fought my parents in going to pre-school. I did not want to go. If I remember correctly, I fought so much at the first school they took me too that they found me another school. At this school, one memory I have was being on a playground sitting alone in this cave-like place on a playground. I was observing the other kids playing. In another memory at this school, I was being given swimming lessons but was afraid of the water. I did not learn how to swim until later in life. I am not certain where the fear of water originated from. I have two other memories of being in this school. I am not certain exactly when Essence settled in but there were those early life memories.

[Bogi 5,660]

At this point, I also cannot pinpoint when Essence settled in, but I have a lot of memories from pre-school era. 

 

I think I read that the memories in our brain get "wiped out" after the age of 4, and that is why we are not remembering our early age.

But Michael also said that everything is stored in the Instinctive Center, so we can have access to these early memoires.

 

I remember this very young, almost baby memory. It must have been at around age 2, not more. Maybe even before that. My mother stayed at home with me till I was 1 year old, then was sent to creche till I turned 3. Then kindergarten from 3 to 6.

 

So, this memory must have been during or before creche.

We had these big towels, and I put this colorful, rainbow-like towel over my head. 

I remember WHY I did it. I pretended to have long hair. Maybe because my mother had long hair back then, and I was imitating her. Or it was a wish from a past life. Or it was planned for this life. But I remember it. Pretending to have long hair. And I remember that my parents took pictures. We still have these photos. They are in Budapest, so I cannot upload them right now, but next time I manage to go home, I will scan them. 

 

I was a cute child, a cute baby. (And now I am a cute adult. )

Edited August 30, 2020 by Bogi

[Leela Corman 4,777]

I love this line of discussion. I don't know if I'm wrong about this, but I feel like I was always here. I have a lot of very early memories, the earliest being infant/baby age, though the farther back I go, the more these memories are snapshots more than anything else. Or, more like little Vine videos, short but with movement and sound. I remember being in my stroller and looking up through the clear yellow plastic rain cover at my mom and her sister, at night, on a rainy NYC street. I remember waking up in my crib from a nap in my bedroom in the Bronx and my mother cooing at me as she picked me up. I even remember her hairstyle and what dress she was wearing. The memories get more reliable around 3 or 4 and pick up from there. Obviously they're not perfect and we all know memory is tricky, but I have always felt like myself in this life, like I landed and here I am. I can definitely point to times when I think my brain development allowed more of "the real me" to come through. 

 

As a parent I think about this a lot. My living child is seven now and is more herself every day. But she's also always been here. I think any parent will tell you that the personality is right there from the start. My daughter was HERSELF from the moment she emerged, with her eyes bugged out and staring at the room. I'd like to know more granular detail about the time between birth and age seven, though, mainly because my deceased child, who only made it to 23 months old, had so much depth and personality, I have a hard time believing her essence wasn't "there" yet. Maybe hanging around feels enough like presence, I don't know. But she was a full person.

[Luciana Flora 11,656]

42 minutes ago, Leela Corman said:

As a parent I think about this a lot. My living child is seven now and is more herself every day. But she's also always been here. I think any parent will tell you that the personality is right there from the start. My daughter was HERSELF from the moment she emerged, with her eyes bugged out and staring at the room. I'd like to know more granular detail about the time between birth and age seven, though, mainly because my deceased child, who only made it to 23 months old, had so much depth and personality, I have a hard time believing her essence wasn't "there" yet. Maybe hanging around feels enough like presence, I don't know. But she was a full person.

I am not a mother .. but when my sister was born I was 7 years old .. so I remember many things ..

  I remember, for example, that she always showed a certain independence ... a certain desire to do things alone ...

 

For example, my sister did not like to bathe in the bathtub .. she wanted to take a shower standing up .. and my mother had to keep holding her shower .. if my mother tried to put her in the bathtub, my sister would cry all the time and she would trying to get up ..

My mother has always encouraged dependency on her children ... but my sister seems to have failed ... I really believe that my sister has a more independent personality since she was a baby ...

[DianeHB 17,291]

18 hours ago, Leela Corman said:

As a parent I think about this a lot. My living child is seven now and is more herself every day. But she's also always been here. I think any parent will tell you that the personality is right there from the start. My daughter was HERSELF from the moment she emerged, with her eyes bugged out and staring at the room. I'd like to know more granular detail about the time between birth and age seven, though, mainly because my deceased child, who only made it to 23 months old, had so much depth and personality, I have a hard time believing her essence wasn't "there" yet. Maybe hanging around feels enough like presence, I don't know. But she was a full person.

Leela, we’ve seen personalities from birth with all three of Tex’s grandkids, too (and actually in utero - the oldest kicked a lot and has extremely high energy). We had their profiles channeled, and they all seemed to show their Essential natures early on (the oldest is now 7). The youngest, a Scholar cast Artisan, is obsessed with objects and has been as soon as he could grab things. I wondered about Michael’s statement, too.

[DianeHB 17,291]

I only have vague snippets of my early childhood, and not much before age 6-7. But I do recall a distinct memory in 1st grade where I suddenly realized I am a “me,” and that I drifted for years without realizing that (at age 7, haha). Seems like it could very well be when Essence settled in. 

[AnnaD 10,599]

I think my essence made some commitments and didn't like the look at how some things panned out, and has skipped in and out ever since tbh. Half of the time I suspect my essence is just rolling their eyes, sighing and moving one foot in front of the other in spite of everything. That is the scope of my commitment, that I am here so far in spite of disappointment and fuck ups. Spiritual attitude with heavy lashings of cynicism.

[Miizle 5,381]

I couldn't first think of any distinctive moment, i have memories from here and there, quite a few from when i was quite young. But what Diane HB said above, about suddenly realising "I am me", made me think of a moment that could actual embark essence settling in for me. I remember it clearly, and my thought was crystal clear... I have always thought i was about 5 years old then, but i suppose i could have well been more (it was definitely before school though, which i started when i was 7,5). I don't know what prompted it, or if it just appeared in my head, as i can't recall i was doing anything or with anyone, just alone in a room.
I thought: "I can't know for sure if other people exist, but I know i exists because i have thoughts." A very Cartesian idea. I remember realising i could not witness or experience other people's thoughts (i.e. their sentience), but i could mine, which lead to this thought.  I felt quite satisfied with this conclusion and really felt myself solidly existing.

Adding for clarity: I didn't doubt other people didn't have thoughts or sentience per se, but i understood my perspective was completely subjective and what we see is not always how things really are - we can't go assuming everyone else has the same experience and same being-ness just because i do. They could be holograms, or what ever.
 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Miizle

[Sam K 3,692]

I have full memories going back to 3 years old, and audio-only memories going back to 2. My earliest memory is my mom asking me how old I am, oddly enough, which is how I'm able to date it.

[KurtisM 15,625]

My first fully intact memory is from 2002, around when I turned 4. I remember painting the house with my parents, and we were coating the floor of the basement. I was going about it so absorbed I ended up painting myself into a corner and was confused how to get out. My parents laughed from the other side and my dad trekked over the wet paint to pick me up.

I also remember watching shows on the TV in that basement thereafter.

 

The first time I think Essence filtered through was in 2004, not long after we moved.

I was feeling removed, separated, from the world around me as I watched the other kids in the neighbourhood play. It was in that moment that I realized I was a self with my own existence.

It was terrifying at first because it felt like I had detached from the comfort of my identity as being attached to my mom and dad, but I got used to it gradually over the day. 

I remember how I felt in that moment. There was a rush of energy into my body that pushed down into me, and then the energy lifted me up a bit, as if settling. Suddenly, I saw things consciously.

[Zahra 834]

Wow I love all this sharing My first memory of my childhood was when I was 1 or 2, I think. I don't know if it's my imagination or actual memory, but I remember that my mom left me on my own for a moment, and I was lying down on the floor. And I remember seeing my body from above. Like hovering over myself. Sounds kinda scary lol

 

I don't remember the first time that I knew I was 'me' though. Just some moments of clarity. 

[petra 11,186]

@KurtisM Thank You so much for a great laugh: I remember painting the house with my parents, and we were coating the floor of the basement. I was going about it so absorbed I ended up painting myself into a corner and was confused how to get out.

 

[Meg 871]

 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Meg
no link preview ? :( -- oh, there it is, cool!

[Meg 871]

^ All I ever really needed to know I learned in kindergarten watching PBS.  CA Prop 13 gutted everything.  For property owners' tax breaks.  I think the district in which my dad taught was the first to go bankrupt in the nation.  I remember him striking and walking the picket line.  And I mean they gutted everything the whole way through.  I'm still fighting to this day, and I'm sick and tired of being sick and damn tired.  Here's to you (above), Roosevelt Franklin Elementary School!  Stay strong. 

Edited September 6, 2020 by Meg

[Connie Stansell-Foy 2,142]

This is sort of oddly synchronous that this subject has come up for discussion. My ex and I were just discussing our earliest memories yesterday.

My earliest memory that I'm certain is not a reconstruction of a family story is looking out my bedroom window over the top of my younger brother's head. He was walking, but short enough that to look out the window, he had to grab hold of the window ledge and pull himself up, so he must have been about a year old, which would make me about 3. I very clearly remember how very blond he was; my mother disagreed, said his hair was always brown, so that maybe I was just seeing how the light filtered through, or maybe he didn't have much hair yet; I don't know, but the memory of white-blond hair is definitely there. Other memories I'm not sure are mine but may have come from family stories involve our dog, Spottie. Apparently, I liked to use her as a pillow and "read" to her. I think I remember doing this, and seeing my mother looking out the kitchen window at us. My brother isn't around in that memory, so either he wasn't born yet, or was still very small. I'm guessing I would have been about 2, and he was an infant, just based on the fact that it was apparently spring or early summer, and I was allowed to go outside with just the dog as a companion. But I have no memories that I am able to identify as Essence settling in.

My ex told me a story he hadn't told me before. Apparently one of his earliest memories, if not the earliest, is of waking up and not knowing whether he was a boy or a girl. He just didn't know, and from the way he sounded when he told me, I think he might have been a little panicked about it. He said he remembers thinking he'd been a girl when he went to sleep; an older girl, a teenager or a young woman. I think he was remembering his last life, in which it's entirely possible the girl passed away in her sleep fairly young. That may have been when Essence settled in for him.

[michael_k 1,220]

Quote

For the first 7 years of a life, in general, the Essence gradually “moves in.” Essence does not live through the Body before that period of time, though there are exceptions. During the first 7 years, past life Personalities of relevance, as well as Essence, “care” for the Body and direct it and those fragments of importance around it for as many opportunities for imprinting as possible. When we say the “Essence and past Personalities direct those of importance,” we do not imply this is done through deceit or imposition. It is done through Agreement formation and fulfillment in most cases, or Karma.

 

This is interesting to read. I've sometimes wondered about the Life Review process and if it is at all feasible or interesting to 'live one life twice' or even multiple times just to see what could have been done with other choices and more foresight, and perhaps as a measure to see how much one has learned from a life by repeating the same processes and witnessing the differences. If I were to repeat a life, I would probably begin from about age six or so when I first started school and got my first computer. Yeah, I would have to deal with my parents drama all over again as well as high school drama but I might handle it differently the second time round. Trouble is though, I could potentially make things much worse as a child / teen if I just refuse to put up with the crap of adults who will surely want me to be punished if I demonstrate too much disobedience as a minor. It's things like that, that make the prospect interesting though.