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  • 1 year later...
  • TeamTLE
On 5/29/2016 at 10:47 PM, Kasia said:

[MEntity] It is often said that "time is an illusion," but that is another misleading cliche.

 

[MEntity] "Time" is simply a term that describes the organizing of experiences.

 

[MEntity] Time for Essence is very different than Time for Personality, because they organize experiences very differently.

 

[MEntity] Time for a gnat is very different from Time for a rock for the same reasons.

 

[MEntity] This organizational capacity must be in place early on, if you will, so that experience can be funneled into Essence in a way that can be comprehended, for that is the "entire point" of Existence.

 

This whole session is so enlightening, especially what I put in bold. Those kinds of statements stop me in my tracks and put me into an expanded state. That and the love I feel here for @Troy, Michael and everyone  in this community. Overwhelming (in a good way).

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  • TeamTLE

 

On 5/29/2016 at 10:47 PM, Kasia said:

Once one is Cast from Tao, these Rights are permanent.

 

For example, there will never be a "when" that you do not Exist.

 

It is permanently your Right as Essence.

 

In much the same way this works for Essence, this Right is inherent in its own creations, as well.

 

So the Personality is always "born" from the memory bank and probability generating Instinctive Center of Essence, and cast with the very basic Right To Exist.

 

This means that "you," as you know you, will "never" go away, even when "you" die.

 

The form may change, the identity may evolve, and the attachments will wane, but the "you" that is you, cannot be undone.

 

This is why we use the term "fragments" as both a reference to your Essence as a part of its higher contexts, but also in reference to the Personalities that exist as parts of an Essence.

 

Essence is a microcosmic Tao.

 

 

I love this.

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  • 5 months later...
  • 1 year later...
  • HOST & RESIDENT CHANNEL
49 minutes ago, Stickyflames said:

I am starting to think I have been far too righteous though in determining what is right and what is wrong.

 

I write this with a lot of love for you and trusting that you know where I'm coming from, but based on your recent wave of posts, it seems that the subjects of animal rights and veganism have become extremely convoluted and diluted for you and these inner dialogs aren't about animal rights or veganism anymore at all.

 

I think you can explore all of these more complex areas of choice and rights and individuals and speculative theories and still uphold the position that we do not and should not exploit animals. I don't think it needs to be complicated.

 

What do the rights of plants have to do with this? What does someone hunting down an animal to live off of for a month have to do with this? What do farm labour practices have to do with this? Nothing. Those are completely separate questions and subjects and circumstances that can be discussed on their own, but have nothing to do with the position of discouraging animal cruelty and exploitation. Right?

 

If someone takes a strong stance against slavery, and then this draws out all of the slave owners and they invited that person to dinner and he hears them out and now he can see how beneficial slavery can be for some people because these slave owners made a good argument and they are nice people and he realizes they are just human, too and they have rights, too, and besides, who is he to question slavery and condemn slave owners when he isn't either of these things, and what about the fact that he adopted a dog, isn't that a kind of slavery, too, and is it the slaves who really suffer or should he be just as concerned about the plants that the slaves are cutting down in the fields... etc, etc...

 

It just sounds like a lot of messy, messy, extremely messy, philosophizing that just leaves a person down a rabbit hole of distractions and the original and valid issue is completely lost.

 

You are strawmanning yourself, lol.

 

I think we should talk.

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  • TLE12
46 minutes ago, Stickyflames said:

Beautiful. Been obsessed with rights since watching the Anna Breteynbach interview where she said she stopped being vegan when she spoke to plants and saw they had rights too.

I resonate the the idea that plants have rights. I know a lot of vegans roll their eyes when people say “ plants have feelings too” but I secretly agreed with that argument.

 

That is an argument I hear a lot. To me, my way of living, which includes veganism, isn't about guaranteeing my actions don't cause any harm at all, but about trying to diminish the negative impact of my choices and actions as much as I can. Let's suppose plants DO have feelings. And let's suppose we need to eat something to survive and live a healthy life. To produce a pound of meat or any other animal product, there is a lot more water and plants needed than to produce a pound of plants. So, if plants have feelings, wouldn't it make even more sense to stick to a vegan diet then?

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  • HOST & RESIDENT CHANNEL
1 minute ago, Nadine said:

That is an argument I hear a lot. To me, my way of living, which includes veganism, isn't about guaranteeing my actions don't cause any harm at all, but about trying to diminish the negative impact of my choices and actions as much as I can.

 

This is exactly what veganism is. It's not about the purity of imperfection. This purity of imperfection thing is a defensive tactic of distraction used to diminish the very important efforts to reduce harm. The aim of veganism is to reduce all unnecessary harm and to be aware of choices that may unintentionally harm.

 

Besides all that, consciousness isn't the same thing as biological and psychological feelings that can produce suffering.  If we find out plants can suffer, then we can take on that subject, but to use this fantastical speculation as a way to excuse or diminish our efforts to protect animals doesn't fly.

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@Stickyflames

While I agree with you that plants have rights and that caring about and tending to those rights is important, when non-vegans/carnists bring up the argument "but plants have feelings too" it's not actually meant as a valid argument a large majority of the time.

(Those who do use this argument with validity, are those who are in tune with the life of plants and mother nature and legitimately see how we mistreat plants through deforestation, trampling, urbanization etc. However in that case it's not really about their feelings, it's about their rights.)

Those who bring up this argument often just use it as a cop out and excuse that indirectly claims the vegan talking about animal rights must be a hypocrite.

It's also an argument about purity and how if you don't eliminate all suffering you're not effective in eliminating any and your actions are pointless.

 

A little bit of elaboration with the right questions/statements will reveal whether or not the non-vegan/carnist actually cares about the rights of plants or animals.

Or if they're just trying to undermine your intentions with logical fallacies.

 

I often respond with these statements:

"There is no scientific evidence that plants have feelings because they don't have a central nervous system which allows us to feel pain (and pleasure).

Whereas we know animals can feel pain (and pleasure) because they have a central nervous system. We know this from science and basic human experience living with animals."

"Caring about plants and animals is not mutually exclusive. You can care about how we treat all living beings equally because any effort to reduce suffering point blank reduces suffering."

 

The usual response to this is a "you're wrong, they do feel pain" and the non-vegan will talk about how the plants scream in horror when we cut or eat them.

They don't tackle the core argument of animal rights, they make it obsolete.

I ask them what they do to support their supposed claim of plant rights and their answer is either nothing or a declaration that we need to eat and eating both plants & animals is part of a healthy balanced diet.

Again this doesn't answer my question or support their stance or respond to my original argument because they're doing nothing to reduce suffering in any way for anyone (relevant to the discussion).

The core reasoning  behind their argument is that "suffering is a part of life so there's no point to reducing it, let's just eat as we always have".

 

The only response I give credit to is when the non-vegan/carnist talks about eating grass fed and organic meat, which I commend them for at least caring. However this cannot be a long-term solution for our species, as it doesn't help mitigate the environmental degradation our diet causes.

And often times, these organic and grass-fed, free range labels are marketing lies to earn profit at the expense of the animals. The animals arent actually treated better.

If this claim is brought up I switch to the environment and/or health detriments of eating meat.

 

 

Besides all of this, being alive and having an existence is not the same as feeling pain and pleasure. Everything in the physical aims for survival but that doesn't mean it feels pain.

As far as we know, plants only suffer in terms of their ability to grow but they don't feel in the same condensed way we do.

And even if they did feel pain, we still cause far less suffering to ourselves, the animals and plants and the whole fucking Earth eating plant-based and vegan than carnist.

The context of the 21st Century is capable of providing nutrient-dense plant-based food sources for everyone.

Edited by KurtisM
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  • 6 months later...

Brilliant discussion. I have so much gratitude for the care that the vegans of TLE show towards animals, plants and humans. Also an incredible piece of channelling. 

That is the first thing I thought of here: Veganism.

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  • 9 months later...
On 5/29/2016 at 9:47 PM, Kasia said:

The form may change, the identity may evolve, and the attachments will wane, but the "you" that is you, cannot be undone.

*mental note taken*

On 5/29/2016 at 9:47 PM, Kasia said:

The parameters of choice for an atom, a rock, or a chicken are very different from the choices of a Personality.

 

The parameter of Choice of a Personality is very different from that of Essence, as well.

puts things in perspective

On 5/29/2016 at 9:47 PM, Kasia said:

This 5th Chakra becomes the practice portal for the use of the 7th Chakra of Essence.

 can anyone elaborate on this ^^^ bit? How would that practice look?

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